AC protection for Trinnov AV Processor

[dlaloum]

Who told you that load of cod's wallop?

You need to avoid those UPS units with inverters like the plague. They run hot, waste electricity and blow up. NEVER purchase one of those. They are unreliable overkill.

Ahhh - you think we should stick to UPS' with no inverters internally?

 

[TLS Guy]

Ahhh - you think we should stick to UPS' with no inverters internally?

No. They only need the inverters when running on battery. Those units that convert AC to DC and then back to AC are a dangerous menace. They run all the time, make heat and waste a huge amount of electricity. I had a friend who was sold one of those units by the dealer. In no time it blew up and took out a Mac unit with it.

There is nothing wrong with the AC wave form as it gets to your home. It has to be controlled to very tight limits by federal law. If that were not so, it would cause damage throughout the distribution system.

So the inverter only needs to work when the power goes out and it just runs to give a controlled shut down.

Good UPS units like the ones, I use will switch to the inverters should there be a problem with the AC, especially voltage out of range, either high or low. They switch to battery in less than 5 msec if the AC is out of spec. They work perfectly. I have used these systems for 17 years. I did have an event were the supply voltage in the neighborhood climbed, due to a failed regulator in the vicinity. The UPS units handled the situation perfectly and alerted me to the problem, so I could notify the power company of the problem. They were very grateful to me.

So every UPS will have an inverter, but never buy one where the inverter runs continuously.

There is a breed of audiophool that thinks that you should purchase UPS units that continuously do AC/DC/AC conversions. This is a very bad wasteful idea, and one of the worst and most dangerous views in the whole realm of audiophoolery. I remain suspicious you have the contagion as you advised dual conversion, in which case for this ideation, we need urgent decontamination to start immediately, as it is not harmless like "funny wire."

 

[dlaloum]

Given that all the UPS's used in professional comms rooms and data centres are double conversion...and reliability issues are rare, I think you are perhaps a little over-sensitised by your friends experience!

I run a server 24/7 and keep it connected to a dual conversion UPS - it has been running about 4 years so far.

My older UPS has been set aside as it needs replacement batteries, but ran just fine (also dual conversion) for 7 or 8 years....

a dual conversion with a clean artificially generated sine wave output, guarantees a clean AC power supply for components connected to it.

You could be lucky, and be the first connection after the utilities Transformer, with no one else on that circuit - Yippee! - or you could be the last house on a long run, and get to enjoy the noise generated on the line by every other house on that circuit (ouch!).

Also, if you have well designed/built equipment, it won't suffer from noise on the lines....

On the other hand... I used to own a fridge in my student days.... (my grandmothers hand me down from the 50's!) - and every time the compressor turned on, it would reboot my PC (heaven help me if I hadn't saved what I was working on) - it also generated an audible thump on the stereo... Had the stereo been a digital component with a CPU, things might have been worse - but it was the good old days!

I've seen noise come through on power lines from neighbours fridges, washing machines and machine tools.

But nowadays, I cannot tell, as I have been running a Belkin UP60 (overblown overpriced powerboard, with surge supression and power filtering) for over 10 years... if something too drastic is detected on the line, it shuts everything down... which does happen every so often.

If you need a filter - then get a filter - but if you need a UPS, then you should get a UPS ie double conversion - otherwise you are actually running a filter and not a UPS - just with a few minutes of UPS attached on the end.

 

[Alex2507]

but it is not for us to suggest "live work" on forums.

 

[PENG]

View attachment 60876

It isn't just shock hazard that we have to worry, arc flash is a serious danger for those who have to "live
work.

One of the last consulting job I did right after retirement was to finalize an arc flash safety for a factory. The video below obviously depict a worse picture than what could happen to electrical panels found in residential buildings/basements, the resulting fire balls, blasts won't be as bad, but even those much smaller ones could still result in bad injuries. There are many classes of protective wear depending on the potential hazard assessed in an arc flash study.

It can look similar to the one used on the dark side:

 

[TLS Guy]

Given that all the UPS's used in professional comms rooms and data centres are double conversion...and reliability issues are rare, I think you are perhaps a little over-sensitised by your friends experience!

I run a server 24/7 and keep it connected to a dual conversion UPS - it has been running about 4 years so far.

My older UPS has been set aside as it needs replacement batteries, but ran just fine (also dual conversion) for 7 or 8 years....

a dual conversion with a clean artificially generated sine wave output, guarantees a clean AC power supply for components connected to it.

You could be lucky, and be the first connection after the utilities Transformer, with no one else on that circuit - Yippee! - or you could be the last house on a long run, and get to enjoy the noise generated on the line by every other house on that circuit (ouch!).

Also, if you have well designed/built equipment, it won't suffer from noise on the lines....

On the other hand... I used to own a fridge in my student days.... (my grandmothers hand me down from the 50's!) - and every time the compressor turned on, it would reboot my PC (heaven help me if I hadn't saved what I was working on) - it also generated an audible thump on the stereo... Had the stereo been a digital component with a CPU, things might have been worse - but it was the good old days!

I've seen noise come through on power lines from neighbours fridges, washing machines and machine tools.

But nowadays, I cannot tell, as I have been running a Belkin UP60 (overblown overpriced powerboard, with surge supression and power filtering) for over 10 years... if something too drastic is detected on the line, it shuts everything down... which does happen every so often.

If you need a filter - then get a filter - but if you need a UPS, then you should get a UPS ie double conversion - otherwise you are actually running a filter and not a UPS - just with a few minutes of UPS attached on the end.

You are spouting absolute nonsense! I have significant service equipment. Over the last forty years plus I have lived at three locations, and looked at the AC wave form and measures its distortion. It is perfect, and distortion unmeasurable. In most parts of the US you you can set your watch by the AC line, and in the predigital era clocks were set and maintained time by the AC mains. It is still that good. Should there be an event which can and does happen in storms, the high quality UPS like APC on offer will protect your equipment. Those dual converter units are far more likely to fail and cause a problem than the AC supply to your home.

You are spouting nonsense and encouraging a wasteful energy practice to boot. Now just stop it, before you get the idiot rating.

 

[highfigh]

All my APC units do that. He needs to order smart UPS units from APC. They can and do, shave high voltage and boost low. That is an essential part of the engineering and specification of a high end installation.

Definitely. People need to stop believing the marketing and find out what's really happening.

Also, the fact that surge protectors don't have an infinite lifespan needs to be made, especially when they're the cheap MOV-based pieces.

 

[highfigh]

You are spouting absolute nonsense! I have significant service equipment. Over the last forty years plus I have lived at three locations, and looked at the AC wave form and measures its distortion. It is perfect, and distortion unmeasurable. In most parts of the US you you can set your watch by the AC line, and in the predigital era clocks were set and maintained time by the AC mains. It is still that good. Should there be an event which can and does happen in storms, the high quality UPS like APC on offer will protect your equipment. Those dual converter units are far more likely to fail and cause a problem than the AC supply to your home.

You are spouting nonsense and encouraging a wasteful energy practice to boot. Now just stop it, before you get the idiot rating.

'Pure Sine Wave refers to the output of the inverter- it doesn't have anything to do with the grid's waveform.

 

[TLS Guy]

'Pure Sine Wave refers to the output of the inverter- it doesn't have anything to do with the grid's waveform.

Well I know that. My point is that you don't need AC-DC-AC conversion at all, just DC-AC conversion for powering down or on those brief occasions when the AC is out of spec or absent. My point being that the AC wave form, almost all the time, will be as good or better, than the wave form from the inverter output. That is my point.

 

[highfigh]

Well I know that. My point is that you don't need AC-DC-AC conversion at all, just DC-AC conversion for powering down or on those brief occasions when the AC is out of spec or absent. My point being that the AC wave form, almost all the time, will be as good or better, than the wave form from the inverter output. That is my point.

I have seen the waveform from electric power service- the they do a very good job of providing accurate frequency and typical up-time, as well as falling within the 10% tolerance. Not too crazy about WE Energies recent jacking up of the cost, though. Their on-hold message used to include "Did you know that WE Energies rates are among the lowest in the Midwest?". That ship sailed years ago.