Need advice on upgrading from my HSU VTF-3 MK5

[bomt697]

Hello, Ive had my HSU subs (3 of them) for about 2 years now and got the itch to upgrade. They've been great and sound very good, but am looking for something.... more now.

What are some of the company and models I should be looking at that would take me "to the next level". Looking to start out with 2 and get #3 and maybe#4 down the line. Budget is $2000-3000 per sub (shhh... dont tell the wife!!)

I would love to make the time and learn how to assemble a GSG sub, but its unrealistic right now.

Are there any suggestions I should look into before upgrading, ie bass traps?
Would room treatments such as this make a difference if the room itself is semi-sealed?

Thanks for any and all advice

 

[shadyJ]

Look at the Monoprice Monolith M215, on sale now for $1900 each, insanely good price for the performance it offers. Also look at the Monolith 16" THX Ultra, monstrous output for the money. Also check out the SVS PB-16-Ultra and Arendal 1723 2V

 

[shadyJ]

One more thing, acoustic treatments for bass mostly affects frequency ranges above the sub's range. It might help your overall sound, but it won't really do much for subwoofer range frequency bands.

 

[bomt697]

Look at the Monoprice Monolith M215, on sale now for $1900 each, insanely good price for the performance it offers. Also look at the Monolith 16" THX Ultra, monstrous output for the money. Also check out the SVS PB-16-Ultra and Arendal 1723 2V

I thought about monoprice but will they give that higher quality bass am looking for (in comparison to the HSU)?

Arendal is what I was leaning too. But they don’t mention a peak output for their subs

I think I wanna stay away from SVS

 

[shadyJ]

I thought about monoprice but will they give that higher quality bass am looking for (in comparison to the HSU)?

Arendal is what I was leaning too. But they don’t mention a peak output for their subs

I think I wanna stay away from SVS

The Monoprice subs will be very good. But the Hsu subs are already very good. Qualitatively, it will be difficult to do better.

 

[kini]

Hello, Ive had my HSU subs (3 of them) for about 2 years now and got the itch to upgrade. They've been great and sound very good, but am looking for something.... more now.

More what?

 

[Danzilla31]

I thought about monoprice but will they give that higher quality bass am looking for (in comparison to the HSU)?

Arendal is what I was leaning too. But they don’t mention a peak output for their subs

I think I wanna stay away from SVS

Also look into Rythmik the FV18 I own 2 of them now one of the best purchases I've ever made. Love those subs. And they will hold they're own with anything out there.

RBH makes great subs and different lineups in value. If your interested in RBH I could get you in contact with my dealer.

 

[everettT]

I thought about monoprice but will they give that higher quality bass am looking for (in comparison to the HSU)?

Arendal is what I was leaning too. But they don’t mention a peak output for their subs

I think I wanna stay away from SVS

With the THX subs you know that distortion will be held in check very well. When looking for better, you have to dig into the the numbers beyond output and extension. How are you crossing over to your mains? What mains are you using. Did you feel that you were getting even bass response with the HSUs, what type of EQ/PEQ/REQ are you using?

 

[Danzilla31]

I thought about monoprice but will they give that higher quality bass am looking for (in comparison to the HSU)?

Arendal is what I was leaning too. But they don’t mention a peak output for their subs

I think I wanna stay away from SVS

SVS especially there higher end subs just aren't the value they used to be after they're price increases. I think your right to be looking elsewhere. Everything @shadyJ suggested is spot on Rythmiks a good one with the FV18 I know some other members will have some good ideas as well

 

[Danzilla31]

I thought about monoprice but will they give that higher quality bass am looking for (in comparison to the HSU)?

Arendal is what I was leaning too. But they don’t mention a peak output for their subs

I think I wanna stay away from SVS

Also look into Paradigm they're Defiance line the 15 inch ported. @shadyJ wasn't that the one you reviewed that did so well that had some just monstrous midbass output combined with good solid low end extension?

 

[ryanosaur]

I thought about monoprice but will they give that higher quality bass am looking for (in comparison to the HSU)?

Arendal is what I was leaning too. But they don’t mention a peak output for their subs

I think I wanna stay away from SVS

Shady is spot on in his recommendation and advice.

It's hard to define whether the Monoliths or Arendals would be a supreme step above the Hsus... In a way it really becomes a question of what your values are. If you are chasing super clean infrasonic output or craving more mid-bass chest slam... How loud you listen... What your overall room volume is?

The Monoliths and Arendals are well reviewed and documented. Same with older versions of the Rythmiks. There really isn't much difference between them all in terms of SQ. More will come down to aesthetic, size, and whether the Amp will give you all the connectivity and UI that you may want.

Personally, if I were buying a manufactured Sub today, I would probably go with the Monoliths 16s. The 215s are very cool, too. Hell, even the regular 15 is a very good performing Sub.

 

[Danzilla31]

Shady is spot on in his recommendation and advice.

It's hard to define whether the Monoliths or Arendals would be a supreme step above the Hsus... In a way it really becomes a question of what your values are. If you are chasing super clean infrasonic output or craving more mid-bass chest slam... How loud you listen... What your overall room volume is?

The Monoliths and Arendals are well reviewed and documented. Same with older versions of the Rythmiks. There really isn't much difference between them all in terms of SQ. More will come down to aesthetic, size, and whether the Amp will give you all the connectivity and UI that you may want.

Personally, if I were buying a manufactured Sub today, I would probably go with the Monoliths 16s. The 215s are very cool, too. Hell, even the regular 15 is a very good performing Sub.

I think you hit on something here Ryan. What does our OP want to move up to from what he already has? Is it deeper bass extension? More midbass slam? Or like some with the itch to upgrade just MORE of what he already gets from the HSU. He has a very good budget set aside for each sub. I think once we know what he wants to get by upgrading from the HSU we can give him some good ideas on what he should look at

 

[ryanosaur]

I think you hit on something here Ryan. What does our OP want to move up to from what he already has? Is it deeper bass extension? More midbass slam? Or like some with the itch to upgrade just MORE of what he already gets from the HSU. He has a very good budget set aside for each sub. I think once we know what he wants to get by upgrading from the HSU we can give him some good ideas on what he should look at

There are so many options out in the Sub world right now. I like what GSG is doing for the most part, but they are focusing almost exclusively on Pro Drivers these days. Much like PSA Subs, there are NO good measurements to show what is actually going on with these Subs when applied to ranges outside of their original design goals.
Usually with Pro Drivers, this means pushing them too far below their ideal operating range which is likely to introduce a bevy of issues affecting strong linear performance. Some Drivers can take the punishment, true. But how do they perform?
Distortion and Compression effects are very real and should be considered when buying Subs... Just as how much power they require to do the job you are asking of them. Even Stereo Integrity has apparently said that trying to push their Drivers to the edge of their capabilities isn't going to result in happy sounds. The simple fact remains that almost every Driver designed and built are limited at the extremes of their theoretical performance ranges. T/S Parameters are great for modeling a Sub, but when you turn around and dump 1000 or 2000w into them in order to get that 10Hz EOT square wave... what happens? In most cases, the Drivers ARE NOT designed for that, much less the Subwoofers (as a complete system incl. Amp, Cabinet and Port) themselves.

 

[shadyJ]

Also look into Paradigm they're Defiance line the 15 inch ported. @shadyJ wasn't that the one you reviewed that did so well that had some just monstrous midbass output combined with good solid low end extension?

The Defiance 15 is a great sub, but I don't think it would be a major step above the VTF-3 mk5. All it would do is gain 2 to 3dB in the midbass region. The Monolith M215 would be a major step up.

 

[lovinthehd]

Too bad David Gage seems to have ceased providing product at Deep Sea Sound, couple of their 24s would be sweet. Maybe throw Funk/Harbottle in the ring, too. Maybe just get a few more Hsus. Also curious just what the goals here are....

 

[ryanosaur]

Too bad David Gage seems to have ceased providing product at Deep Sea Sound, couple of their 24s would be sweet. Maybe throw Funk/Harbottle in the ring, too. Maybe just get a few more Hsus. Also curious just what the goals here are....

I have a suspicion that SI was somewhat of a poor vendor. I've heard customers commenting about the wait on their hand-built products and it's not a good look. Now that GSG is doing a cabinet that is pretty much designed around his 24" Driver, I'm curious to see what comes of the lead times.

Funk and Harbottle for the win. but Cody's finished Subs are not cheap! And we already know that Nathan's gear is up there. His raw Drivers are really good looking options if you are skilled at the DIY design phase and aren't gonna cheap out on the electronic side. Good clean Amps and DSP solutions are an absolute must according to Cody.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have a suspicion that SI was somewhat of a poor vendor. I've heard customers commenting about the wait on their hand-built products and it's not a good look. Now that GSG is doing a cabinet that is pretty much designed around his 24" Driver, I'm curious to see what comes of the lead times.

Funk and Harbottle for the win. but Cody's finished Subs are not cheap! And we already know that Nathan's gear is up there. His raw Drivers are really good looking options if you are skilled at the DIY design phase and aren't gonna cheap out on the electronic side. Good clean Amps and DSP solutions are an absolute must according to Cody.

I wonder how much has to do with Nick's multiple sclerosis....maybe he's just too popular, too.

 

[ryanosaur]

I wonder how much has to do with Nick's multiple sclerosis....maybe he's just too popular, too.

Some of everything?

I know my interactions with Nick have all been pretty solid. I don't quite agree with some of his marketing and hope that his hand-built Drivers are closer to spec than what I got.
That was definitely a curveball for me. But I'm standing in the box and am trying to score on it anyway.

I'll say this, though. For anybody with the skill and desire, I do believe Harbottle's Ridge Drivers are everything they are claimed to be. Nathan and Cody are colleagues in a loose sense... I don't know how much they actually work together, though they are in the same space; they make it clear their businesses are separate entities. Yet the Drivers Ricci tested for Funk were basically Cody's work if I understand correctly. He did test some Ridge Drivers a couple years later.
The modern Ridge Drivers are a step above that work from when Ricci tested back in 2013 and 2016... And if you look at those measurements, they are pretty stunning. Scroll down and see the textbook performance of a Long Term Output Sweep.

Data-Bass: Subwoofer Measurements

data-bass.com

 

[lovinthehd]

Some of everything?

I know my interactions with Nick have all been pretty solid. I don't quite agree with some of his marketing and hope that his hand-built Drivers are closer to spec than what I got.
That was definitely a curveball for me. But I'm standing in the box and am trying to score on it anyway.

I'll say this, though. For anybody with the skill and desire, I do believe Harbottle's Ridge Drivers are everything they are claimed to be. Nathan and Cody are colleagues in a loose sense... I don't know how much they actually work together, though they are in the same space; they make it clear their businesses are separate entities. Yet the Drivers Ricci tested for Funk were basically Cody's work if I understand correctly. He did test some Ridge Drivers a couple years later.
The modern Ridge Drivers are a step above that work from when Ricci tested back in 2013 and 2016... And if you look at those measurements, they are pretty stunning. Scroll down and see the textbook performance of a Long Term Output Sweep.

Data-Bass: Subwoofer Measurements

data-bass.com

What happened with your sql drivers spec-wise?

 

[bomt697]

With the THX subs you know that distortion will be held in check very well. When looking for better, you have to dig into the the numbers beyond output and extension. How are you crossing over to your mains? What mains are you using. Did you feel that you were getting even bass response with the HSUs, what type of EQ/PEQ/REQ are you using?

I am crossing over miniDSP. Mains are Arendal 1723 THX. I used the 6 band EQ that comes with REW software