Parasound JS5 vs Anthem STR amp, anyone compare these two?

[lovinthehd]

Well... I mean, you did ask...

Especially an "audio engineer" of 25 year experience needs to ask in a weird casual way what people found in undefined comparisons.....I smell lots of BS

 

[lovinthehd]

Well you guys are the smart ones so you can tell me why my McIntosh sounds different with my system vs Parasound or my old Adcom 555. Lol

So you're implying you're not "smart" enough to figure it out?

 

[lovinthehd]

By the way love your moniker "revelation" although doubt you have much in the way of revelations....

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have been an audio engineer for over 25 years. I respect your opinion but I disagree with your position. I found it pointless to debate these topics on line so I will leave it at that. I clearly hear a difference when played the same song through 3 different amps with the same stereo. The bottom line is you buy an amp that your happy with.

Yes, you have all that experience. And your experience in psychoacoustics? Testing with serious bias controls in place? How many controlled tests have you conducted in that 25 years? People have been doing such test since the 1970s trying to find facts.
Unless your comparison is properly done, your perception is all over the place, biased. No, that 25 years didn't give you immunity against bias that you just cannot turn on or off. It is just there.

 

[PENG]

I would not say my McIntosh MC152 has any improvement over the JC5 or Anthem, but the gentle smooth mids it offers makes it unique over the competition. Not everyone likes its character but I sure do. And thankfully it was not too crazy expensive compared to some of their other gear.

I don't think anyone is questioning your ability to hear the differences, even if such were to due to the devices having what you alluded to, different "characters", but I, for one would like to know the reason(s). For example, what causes the Mc152 to have the "character" that you characterized? Would it be output power related, damping factor, or whatever. We do know distortions won't be a factor in this case, as most experts would likely agree.

As far as I know Anthem and McIntosh are among amp manufacturers who claimed to design for transparency, such that the devices would just amplify, without adding favor, or character. Again, I believe they sounded different to you, but have to wonder why, that's all.

Regardless, my choice would be the Mc152.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Guys, we gotta change things up just once.

Next time someone asks to choose an amp, we gotta pick one or an alternative amp and give reasons why.

Sooooo, although the Parasound Halo and Anthem are great choices, I would get the Bryston 4B-3 because it sounds richer and fuller and just more understanding - like they got your back for the next 20 years.

 

[Pogre]

Yes, you have all that experience. And your experience in psychoacoustics? Testing with serious bias controls in place? How many controlled tests have you conducted in that 25 years? People have been doing such test since the 1970s trying to find facts.
Unless your comparison is properly done, your perception is all over the place, biased. No, that 25 years didn't give you immunity against bias that you just cannot turn on or off. It is just there.

That really is so true. The old "I'm a musician" or "an audio engineer" is pretty meaningless unless you also have experience with psychoacoustics and an understanding of biases. They're inescapable and no one is immune.

 

[erpauls]

Guys, we gotta change things up just once.

Next time someone asks to choose an amp, we gotta pick one or an alternative amp and give reasons why.

/QUOTE]
Agreed!

 

[xrqp]

I don't think anyone could tell the difference in a dbt. Here's an interesting example.
https://matrixhifi.com/contenedor_ppec_eng.htm

That example is a single blind test. Not double. Still a very useful test. And I find lesser tests also useful, like listening tests, but not nearly as good as the blind ones. Since DBT and SBT are so rare to find, and so difficult to do.

 

[mono-bloc]

I found it pointless to debate these topics on line

I tend to agree it really is a pointless argument, and at the end of the day it comes down to personal preferences. And your bank balance. As for costs a $10,000 amp is considered entry level in the high end world.For proof of that consider Boulder Audio, there American, or at a lower level top of the line Pass-Labs. If you rally want to get expensive sit down and look at "The Gryphon" range. Or pay a visit to Suncoast Audio. Really audio is no different to any other product Pride of ownership plays a big part. Some people like Toyota, Some like Porsche. If your happy with what you have, and don't intend to sell a kidney to satisfy your lust, Whatever you do don't acquire yourself a high end wife There was a case the other day where a little old lady spent $200,000 on handbags. She said it made her happy.

 

[PENG]

I tend to agree it really is a pointless argument, and at the end of the day it comes down to personal preferences. And your bank balance. As for costs a $10,000 amp is considered entry level in the high end world.For proof of that consider Boulder Audio, there American, or at a lower level top of the line Pass-Labs. If you rally want to get expensive sit down and look at "The Gryphon" range. Or pay a visit to Suncoast Audio. Really audio is no different to any other product Pride of ownership plays a big part. Some people like Toyota, Some like Porsche. If your happy with what you have, and don't intend to sell a kidney to satisfy your lust, Whatever you do don't acquire yourself a high end wife There was a case the other day where a little old lady spent $200,000 on handbags. She said it made her happy.

The funny thing is, he asked the questions and then he said it was a pointless argument. But really, he started the argument. All of those responded could have follow ADTG's lead and then he would have gotten at least half a dozen of answers, such as w % in favor of the Parasound because of it's silky smooth, sweet, warm, musical, emotional sound and the other x% would argue for the Anthem for its neutrality/accuracy, y% will argue for either one but for the opposite reasons, and (100-w-x-y)% would say there are no audible differences.

Conclusion is, invariably, it is indeed pointless to argue, or to conclude anything. There would have been 0 % chance everyone will say the same about his picks, so his question is absolutely pointless too?

 

[cpp]

I disagree with most YouTube reviewers, lol.

Pretty much my position as well, as most if NOT all YouTube reviewers , just want to make some pocket money saving positive things about the item they are reviewing and delete all the negative post. Just my opinion of course.

see which amp fits their taste the best.

And that's the key. Its their taste not others.

 

[Swerd]

This thread is a good example of one of the age old debates in audio … do amplifiers sound different?

One side argues they don't, unless they're poorly designed. Others argue they do sound quite different, and cite their decades of experience. Whenever I see these debates, I always wonder how so many different opinions could exist.

When there are little or no possible differences in sound quality (such as with amps), one might expect that most people would not perceive differences. If anything, the opposite happens – there are many opinions about what listeners perceive. Just look at those YouTube reviews, especially how they usually disagree with each other. I believe the more people struggle to hear differences, the more they succeed.

Note that I said "perceive" and not "hear". @Pogre is right when he says listening without controlled blind conditions are opinions not facts.

 

[PENG]

This thread is a good example of one of the age old debates in audio … do amplifiers sound different?

One side argues they don't, unless they're poorly designed. Others argue they do sound quite different, and cite their decades of experience. Whenever I see these debates, I always wonder how so many different opinions could exist.

When there are little or no possible differences in sound quality (such as with amps), one might expect that most people would not perceive differences. If anything, the opposite happens – there are many opinions about what listeners perceive. Just look at those YouTube reviews, especially how they usually disagree with each other. I believe the more people struggle to hear differences, the more they succeed.

Note that I said "perceive" and not "hear". @Pogre is right when he says listening without controlled blind conditions are opinions not facts.

For those who have teenage kids, level match a midrange avr, run it in direct mode and AB compare it with an integrated amp such as the Marantz PM8005 or Yamaha A-S801, and a pair of separates such as a Parasound P6 and A23+, ask the teenagers which one sound better, they will say no difference whatsoever.

Now if you tell them the sound signatures of the 3 are different, and also tell them what to listen for in a convincing tone, they will most likely confirm the difference.

Next, get them to do it blind, and they will again tell you there are no difference whatsoever.

Anyone can do such an experiment if they are willing to invest the time and have the gear. Results are guaranteed@

 

[mono-bloc]

The question should really be, Is so-called "Blind Testing" really completely impartial. If the owner sets up the gear in his own room, the test can't be '' blind '' Most people simply don't have the room or space to complete any sort of test. Simply removing all the junk, and furniture out of the room leaving a clean, clear space is never going to happen.If it does divorce quickly follows. So your so-called test is simply a comparison of two or more products, And as you've set up the system you already know what's, what. So all the result your going to get is pre-determined before you start. I hear this all the time, the measurements tell me this or that, The facts are all the measurements in the world will never tell you what something sounds like. Or this Lead or Cable makes it sound better then the old cable. Simple because you have obtained a new cable and the cost justify's the change, If it sounded the same why would you have spent good money on a new cable, So it must sound better. If we could go into a vacant space with unknown amplification, we could perhaps compare it to something we have never heard before. Some manufacturers spend a fortune on testing, A few build special rooms, Magico are one such company, But when your testing speakers worth close to a million dollars and amplification worth nearly as much, You have to get it right The M 9 is one such speaker, Which was first displayed in a static display at Munich Audio Fair.. That pair was sold at the show and went to Hong Kong.So the story goes. This is Magico's new room. Ttps://www.monoandstereo.com/2022/04/new-magico-listening-room.HTML And a short video on how it was constructed

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All of those responded could have follow ADTG's lead and then he would have gotten at least half a dozen of answers

And it would have been a hell of a lot more fun too.

The Halo sounded so angelic and heavenly sweet, while the Anthem sounded so rousing and uplifting.

I wanted to see what kind of adjectives people would use.

 

[PENG]

And it would have been a hell of a lot more fun too.

The Halo sounded so angelic and heavenly sweet, while the Anthem sounded so rousing and uplifting.

I wanted to see what kind of adjectives people would use.

Wow, looks like if you ask 100 people to do an AB test, there will be way more than half a dozen different answers. I was so wrong, forgetting how creative audiophiles, or even the regular guys/girls could be in coming up with adjectives, given the opportunity, even if some may not be able to spell those adjectives correctly.

 

[PENG]

The question should really be, Is so-called "Blind Testing" really completely impartial. If the owner sets up the gear in his own room, the test can't be '' blind '' Most people simply don't have the room or space to complete any sort of test. Simply removing all the junk, and furniture out of the room leaving a clean, clear space is never going to happen.If it does divorce quickly follows. So your so-called test is simply a comparison of two or more products, And as you've set up the system you already know what's, what. So all the result your going to get is pre-determined before you start. I hear this all the time, the measurements tell me this or that, The facts are all the measurements in the world will never tell you what something sounds like. Or this Lead or Cable makes it sound better then the old cable. Simple because you have obtained a new cable and the cost justify's the change, If it sounded the same why would you have spent good money on a new cable, So it must sound better. If we could go into a vacant space with unknown amplification, we could perhaps compare it to something we have never heard before. Some manufacturers spend a fortune on testing, A few build special rooms, Magico are one such company, But when your testing speakers worth close to a million dollars and amplification worth nearly as much, You have to get it right The M 9 is one such speaker, Which was first displayed in a static display at Munich Audio Fair.. That pair was sold at the show and went to Hong Kong.So the story goes. This is Magico's new room. Ttps://www.monoandstereo.com/2022/04/new-magico-listening-room.HTML And a short video on how it was constructed

You are right. That's why I prefer to rely on science, and that includes logic science. For example, believers of different amps with specs and measurements that indicate any differences in distortions, frequency response, SNR/DR, DF, CT, linearity etc, will not be detectable by humans, then people such as the OP's claims that:

I agree with what this audio reviewer says about Parasound, McIntosh and Bryston at 11:15 in the video.
The Parasound JC5 Review! True Hi-Fi excellence. - YouTube Maybe the sound has to do more with the overall components vs 2nd harmonic distortion.

I clearly hear a difference when played the same song through 3 different amps with the same stereo.

are illogical, if we are comparing amps such as those Parasound, Bryston, and I would add the likes of McIntosh, NAD, Rotel's as well. To be clear, I am not saying all amp sounds the same at all though and would not participate in that kind of debates.

As I said, I trust science enough to rely on specs and measurements but just for curiosity, and while still have a few comparable amps (by specs), decided to do some blind test including DBT in a couple tests just to find out how a newly acquired low cost class D amp would fare with my class AAB amps.

I owned the Halo A21, and Bryston 4B SST for quite a few years and I know in a controlled blind test they sounded same enough to be indistinguishable. That's before I saw any Youtuber reviews and/or measurements on those amps. All I knew at time of purchase was their published audio specs.

So, we compared those amps with a tiny buckeye Hypex NC502MP class D amp and to do the AB tests we spent a couple hundred dollars (C$) on selector switches. In all level matched (using REW) blind tests we could not tell them apart no matter how hard we tried. One of us could tell a subtle difference when compared the buckeye amp with the Harman Kardon HK3390.

I think even the believers would agree that while there are many factors that could affect audible sound difference, the main ones ought to be frequency response, distortions, noise (that would give a hint to id the device, if high enough), cross talk. If we examine the audio specs and measurable performance of the likes of those Parasound, Bryston, Hypex amps, we won't find difference that would indicate they will sound audibly difference to normal people. So why do people continue to hear differences between such amps? There are no scientific/logical reasons, other than the psychologically related ones I guess..

As I mentioned a few times, one of the respected legendary class amp design engineer, Mr. Peter Walker didn't do listening test to design his amplifiers, only did them to detect if there was something wrong, as part of quality control (I assume..).

Take a look of any high end, highly accurate speaker's frequency response and distortions graphs, and you can see that in a "go by ears" listening test, even slightly move your "ears" a few inches, frequency response would change so much that any measurable differences between amps (the ones mentioned) look obviously inconsequential during those AB comparison listening tests.

Lastly, scientists, engineers design all those amplifiers to be transparent, yet that people claimed all have audibly different sound, yet those people don't own the people who designed those amps, so if what they thought they heard were real, then they would have to do a large number of home auditions, to find their preferred "sound". Good luck to them!!

 

[Swerd]

The question should really be, Is so-called "Blind Testing" really completely impartial. If the owner sets up the gear in his own room, the test can't be '' blind '' Most people simply don't have the room or space to complete any sort of test. Simply removing all the junk, and furniture out of the room leaving a clean, clear space is never going to happen.If it does divorce quickly follows. So your so-called test is simply a comparison of two or more products, And as you've set up the system you already know what's, what. So all the result your going to get is pre-determined before you start.
I hear this all the time, the measurements tell me this or that, The facts are all the measurements in the world will never tell you what something sounds like. Or this Lead or Cable makes it sound better then the old cable. Simple because you have obtained a new cable and the cost justify's the change, If it sounded the same why would you have spent good money on a new cable, So it must sound better.

If we could go into a vacant space with unknown amplification, we could perhaps compare it to something we have never heard before. Some manufacturers spend a fortune on testing, A few build special rooms, Magico are one such company, But when your testing speakers worth close to a million dollars and amplification worth nearly as much, You have to get it right The M 9 is one such speaker, Which was first displayed in a static display at Munich Audio Fair.. That pair was sold at the show and went to Hong Kong.So the story goes.

It doesn’t require anechoic rooms, such as Magico's, to compare sound from different speakers, amplifiers, or other audio gear. As long as you listen under conditions where all else is the same, other than amplifiers, you've eliminated them as factors. Any room, with or without furniture, doesn't matter as long as it's the same for all listening tests.

The purpose of a listening test can be for many purposes. That listening room Magico built looks like an anechoic room, designed to minimize reflections off of walls, ceilings, and floors that we experience in our homes. They can be quite expensive. It’s good to see that Magico spends money so it can rationally design and test it’s speakers. But if you want to compare possible differences in sound qualities of different amplifiers, you don't need anechoic rooms.

However, you will need to take some care to design listening test conditions that are rational and fair. First, the tests must be done where the listener does not know the what amplifier is operating – listen under blind conditions. This is essential. Any conclusions from such tests also require proper statistical analysis, and properly designed test controls.

I've written at length about this before. See this thread titled: Objective Testing of Speaker Wire? Does it exist?
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/objective-testing-of-speaker-wire-does-it-exist.119346/#post-1418441

In particular, please read Post #10, where I described Negative and Positive Controls for listening tests.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/objective-testing-of-speaker-wire-does-it-exist.119346/#post-1418492

 

[nhttime]

I can tell you having owned dozens of different amps in the sub 10k realm, I hear big differences. For example the JC5 is a bit leaner sounding by itself or bi-amping as a bass amp, in my system., but more transparent and resolved than my Parasound A21. I still have both running biamped, and prefer the A21 on the bottom of my NHT 3.3 and the JC5 set at about 90% gain on the top half, bi amped. The A21 is warmer, less resolved than the JC5 which gives great substance to detail, excellent clarity, lots of musical surprises in familiar music compared to A21. Also low level late night listening in the class A zone, 12 wpc or less, the JC5 is an obvious winner, more compelling, and much better insight. At high volume the JC5 is clear without being too hard or forward, and the ambiance of the studio space is more obvious. A Bryston 4B3 was right in my face and way too bright as a soloist with the 3.3 which are best served by mellower amps it seems. A Mark Levinson 27.5 sounded the best overall as a solo, at low to medium levels, but disliked being driven hard, sound was hard and irritating especially playing rock at high volume into the NHT, which are about 86 db efficient and 6 ohm nominal. I preferred the softer warmer wall of sound from the 300 watt Perreaux 3150 at high volume over the ML. Current preamp is a W4S STP 2, Balanced in's and outs using audiolab mDAC, Sony CDP707ES, Blusound Node, Tidal hi-fi, plus a DENON 790 vinyl grinder, with a DL103. Oh, and balanced does give a noticible bump in gain vs single ended inputs on the A21, but can't tell with the JC5 as I've never come close to full output. I would love to hear if anyone has compared the JC1 non + monos to the JC5, and what their observations might be. A long winding comparo, only because I don't have the other amp you wish to compare JC5 to, but perhaps one of the others I used will offer useful comparison, albiet at varying price points.