Sony 2023 ES Receiver lineup

[PENG]

The 360 Spatial Sound Mapping tech, and what Sony does with RoomEQ is what interests me most...

I look forward to reading reviews comparing it to Dirac / Audyssey / ARC / Trinnov.

This is where the future is, this is going to be the real differentiator... anyone can decode Dolby and DTS, anyone can power umpteen channels - but the potential of the spatial environment processing, is still only nascent....

With the potential of some of these systems, we may see systems with fewer speakers, outperforming others with a plethora of speakers/channels.

I wonder how it would compare with D+M's new "360 degree reality audio"?

 

[highfigh]

Not the most scientific guy, that is for sure, it's funny that his spouse always chimes in at the end, but is never on camera.

I take his reviews with a grain of salt, but the 10 things was good because he discredits high end cables and other Audiophile Myths. He does seem to get pretty much every piece of gear that comes in.

Imagine going on a road trip with her.....

 

[ban25]

Imagine going on a road trip with her.....

Let's not talk about the guy's wife, that just seems crass.

 

[Hobbit]

Worked for Sony back in the late '90s. Their quality control was second to none. Not that they never had a problem, but they did more than any other company I worked for, or with, to resolve issues and insure they don't return.

I hope they still have this mindset. Glad to see they're making some good offerings!

 

[MandM]

Sony has contacted me directly and wants us to bench test their flagship. Matthew Poes will be heading this up for us and we will be doing videos together about the new Sony AVRs. They seem to have potential though I'm a little disappointed the dual sub outs are just a parallel connection. I do like that their receivers weigh 50lbs, means they have a real power supply.

Gene you need to test this.

 

[Captain Norway]

I got the 7000ES today, but have only hooked up 2.1 so far because I was going to do some A/B testing of my SVS Ultra Bookshelf vs the Arendal 1961 Monitors.

Even though you can connect A/B front speakers, they do not seem to be calibrated separately, and I have not been able to figure out how to switch between them. Had to calibrate them separately for preset 1 and 2 and connect/disconnect the speakers. With an 80Hz crossover to a SB200Pro, they are not very different.

I am in a new room and my Denon 4700 gave up recently, so not able to really say anything about the sound quality as of yet. There is some strange noises when using Spotify Connect or through Airplay. Almost like a digital version of dust on vinyl... There is no way to force a firmware update, so will just have to see if there is change once it checks tonight if there is an update.

There is another odd thing when you select all channel stereo even with just 2 channels connected. It seems to at least 5x the bass.

I will have to hook it all up to get a final feel, because I want to see if their 360 can compare to Auro up mix.This will probably be the deciding factor.

Also getting the Sony 83" OLED on Friday, so going to test the main thing that got me interested, using two centers, and also try using the TV as center.

Will have to decide within the return timeframe if I go for the A1H instead.

 

[Captain Norway]

I can add that the auto setup detects both the Ultra Bookshelfs and 1961 Monitors as Large and sets a 120Hz crossover to the sub.

 

[ban25]

Gene you need to test this.View attachment 60600

I've been scratching my head wondering what this means. At first I thought there was perhaps a bandwidth difference between 3/6 and the others, but looking at the back panel, 6 is a 4K60 port, whereas 3 is positioned in the middle of the 8K/4K120 ports... It's digital, so how can noise be a factor? Unless those other ports are near analog amplifiers that may be affected by HDMI signaling?

 

[Trebdp83]

I understand the optical and coaxial input ports on these new models are limited to 96kHz. That is not unusual these days but could be an unpleasant surprise for some.

Now, the big f#%kin' deal here are the limited capabilities of the HDMI #5(VIDEO) and HDMI #6(SACD) on ALL of the new models and also the HDMI #7(ON FRONT) of some models. They are ALL limited to 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 BIT color. That is a f#%kin' 4K Standard spec limitation on f#%kin' 2023 models! This is a big f#%kin' deal.

The flagship model of any new AVR should feature the highest spec HDMI port but NOT A SINGLE AVR manufacturer features a 48Gbps port. The new Sony models feature 40Gbps ports at best. You won't find a chart, or at least I could not do so, in their Help Guide. I did read that the 8K/4K @120 ports were capable of 4K RGB 4:4:4 @120Hz 12 BIT color ONLY when using compression(DSC) and this is evidence of a 40Gbps limitation. The 40Gbps limitation supports up to 4K RGB 4:4:4 @120Hz BIT 10 BIT color UNCOMPRESSED.

The 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 limit of some of the ports will result in many having handshake issues from hell with their devices and TVs depending on the output settings of those devices. If you have an Apple TV 4K and set it to output Dolby Vision(4K RGB 4:4:4 @60Hz 8 BIT), you are SOL. The Apple TV will convert output to HDR10 4:2:0 8 BIT or even SDR 4:2:0 8 BIT. Dolby Vision will only be supported in apps that support 24Hz playback of content but the system may freak out when switching to 60Hz.

It's telling that Sony lists "Super Audio CD Player", "CD player" and "Optional Audio Device" as devices one would connect to these ports as they know those ports aren't worth s#%t for much of anything else. Why is nobody reporting on this nonsense? I know many are tired of reading it, and I'm tired of typing it, but that is some BULLS#%T!

P.S. The poor slobs who purchase the AN1000 instead of one of the AZ models only get two 8k/4k @120Hz ports, two 4K @60Hz Enhanced(4:4:4) ports and two 4K 60Hz Standard(4:2:0) ports.

 

[Trebdp83]

For those gamers who may be wondering about it, the new Sony models are like everybody else's out there and CANNOT send 4K @120Hz to Zone2 over HDMI. The limit is 4K 4:4:4 @60Hz from the 8K/4K@120Hz ports and 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 from those last two S#%T ports and the port on the front of equipped models!

 

[Cos]

For those gamers who may be wondering about it, the new Sony models are like everybody else's out there and CANNOT send 4K @120Hz to Zone2 over HDMI. The limit is 4K 4:4:4 @60Hz from the 8K/4K@120Hz ports and 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 from those last two S#%T ports and the port on the front of equipped models!

I have downsized my Home Theater connections significantly. I have My Apple 4K TV, Blu Ray player, and thats pretty much it connected to mine, so that number of ports would be a non issue. I cut the cord with Cable about 2 years ago and use Hulu TV. Since the Xbox and PS5 are the only 4k/120 devices out there, its really a non issue for me.

 

[Trebdp83]

It may not be an issue for many but will definitely be an issue for many others. “It's not an issue for me” is the new mantra of the fanboy. The Denon/Marantz and Yamaha fanboys all had the same to say when the initial HDMI 2.1 fiasco came around. Sony is asking for over $3K for a flagship AVR with 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 BIT caps on some of its HDMI ports. This is the same outfit that put 32Gbps caps on the PS5 along with many other limitations to it and their TVs concerning gaming features. It’s 2023. If you are going to ask for that kind of coin, you’d better f#%kin’ do it right or don’t do it at all. I’m sure Reality 360 Audio will make up for all of it.

 

[highfigh]

Let's not talk about the guy's wife, that just seems crass.

Oh, should I have added a smiley face? Would that make it clear that I was joking?

 

[svenyun]

It may not be an issue for many but will definitely be an issue for many others. “It's not an issue for me” is the new mantra of the fanboy.

Those of us who don't require every HDMI port to be the latest spec aren't going to be concerned about it. Your whining isn't going to result in Sony cancelling these models and replacing them with ones you approve. Spend your time looking elsewhere.

 

[Cos]

It may not be an issue for many but will definitely be an issue for many others. “It's not an issue for me” is the new mantra of the fanboy. The Denon/Marantz and Yamaha fanboys all had the same to say when the initial HDMI 2.1 fiasco came around. Sony is asking for over $3K for a flagship AVR with 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 BIT caps on some of its HDMI ports. This is the same outfit that put 32Gbps caps on the PS5 along with many other limitations to it and their TVs concerning gaming features. It’s 2023. If you are going to ask for that kind of coin, you’d better f#%kin’ do it right or don’t do it at all. I’m sure Reality 360 Audio will make up for all of it.

LOL, I am not a Sony AVR fanboy, way to generalize. Sony TV Fan yes, but not AVR. Just because we don't agree with you, or express a different opinion, I guess that makes us all fanboys. You are obviously very passionate about your HDMI Connections. I agree that all ports should be full HDMI 2.1 compliance, but if you look at the largest audience I doubt very highly that even 1% needs all HDMI 2.1 ports. Sony is selling to the largest audience. It's amusing how upset you are by their decision. The great thing is you are not required to buy it, I will not .

Reminds me of a Scene from Back to School

 

[Trebdp83]

Sometimes you just have to shake the tree. This isn’t about HDMI 2.1 features alrogether. Do your homework kids. If an HDMI port cannot support the RGB 4:4:4 8 BIT @60Hz output of a connected device, Sony mentioned a connected PC, then it doesn’t even support HDMI 2.0 features such as 18Gbps and Sony used the weakest specced port they could get away with using and still say all of their ports support 4K.

Many didn't do their homework and were frustrated and angry with Denon and Yamaha AVRs in 2020. Those folks had HDMI 2.1 issues specific to 4K @120Hz. These new Sony receivers will cause problems for anybody connecting a device capable of just 18 Gbps and HDMI 2.0 features to those two basically obsolete ports.

Streaming devices can output content at 24Hz and UHD players output movies at 24Hz. Both kinds of players can output everything at 4K 60Hz with any necessary color subsampling and color bit drops. But, not all streaming services support 24Hz playback on every device and those devices will output content at 60Hz and if connected to one of the lesser new Sony HDMI ports, will have to do some color subsampling and/or color bit drops to get to 4:2:0 8 bit. There will be handshake issues. Those connecting a PC to one of these ports will see their resolution drop to 1080p to maintain 4:4:4 color and the 60Hz refresh rate. The new Sony receivers do not support 1440p resolution or 144Hz refresh rate on any port.

The HDMI 2.1 marketing is confusing many as some manufacturers are less than completely up front about specs. Everybody needs to catch up to the actual HDMI 2.1 Ultra Certified cables and feature 48 Gbps and every HDMI 2.1 feature on their ports and be done with it. Many are supporting 40Gbps ports and many mixing them with 18Gbps ports. Sony is the first to take a step backward and include these very limited ports on new 2023 receivers. If they had any balls at all, they would have just left them off and jacked up the price for the four 40Gbps ports. You know, like McIntosh did with the new MHT300. That thing has only FOUR 40Gbps HDMI input ports and ONE 40 Gbps HDMI output port for the low, low price of $8,000.

 

[Big-Q]

I am glad to see these come out. The more competition the better. I look forward to a review.

 

[Trebdp83]

Gene you need to test this.View attachment 60600

This one still confuses me. If I had to guess, it may have something to do with Native DSD but I'd just be guessing. Now, Sony has done this before concerning the now discontinued STR-DN1080. That receiver came out about five years ago and featured five HDMI input ports that supported 18Gbps and one port that was rate at 9Gbps. There was no 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 port available from anybody at the time. Now, Sony is offering four 40Gbps ports on their flagship models BUT now include not one, but TWO 9Gbps ports. They did not include two 24Gbps ports like some or even 18Gbps ports like some others still but decided to keep the 9Gbps port around and add another one to keep it company.

Now, if the BD/DVD and SACD/CD labeled ports do include some kind of Sony Secret Sound Sauce, then those using the new models will have to potentially make a hard choice. While the SACD/CD(#5) labeled HDMI port on the STR-DN1080 did support 18Gbps, the Sony Secret Sound Sauce SACD/CD(#6) HDMI port on the new models is a 9Gbps port. So, if somebody wants to enjoy 4K @120Hz or even just 4K 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 @60Hz video and savor the Sony Secret Sound Sauce at the same time, they have but a single HDMI port to use to do so by connecting to the BD/DVD(#3) HDMI port. The SACD/CD(#6) Sony Secret Sauce port on the new models is a 9Gbps port. So, a second device will benefit from supposedly enhanced audio while at the same time be crippled in the video department.

Sony STR-DN1080:

SONY STR-AZ7000ES:

 

[John22]

From Tony at Audioholics, "The big question is the new 360 Spatial room correction. Dirac has their spatial room correction solution, which abandons the old method of correcting one channel at a time, instead using every speaker in a system simultaneously to optimize the reproduction of each input channel. Trinnov recently released...".

I didn't realize that the Sony room correction may go beyond Dirac Live, Audyssey, etc.'s Room Correction and be closer to Dirac's new ART and Trinnov's equivalent. This would corroborate Andrew Robinson's glowing review without going into detail, other than it sounded better than systems he's used with traditional Dirac. Very interesting, I can't wait for the upcoming detailed review.

It seems everyone is jumping into spatial audio, including Sonos with their leaked new Era line. Too bad Sonos and Apple are not getting along and Apple Music won't work on Sonos Atmos, and Denon and Sonos are not getting along.

All I want is a room-corrected, multi-independent-sub-bass-corrected, spatially-audioated, 7.2.4 atmos system with a Samsung Frame art exhibit look, that I can pipe to (Airplay) or from (various TV content like concerts) so I can have an audio art room plus home playing in high-fidelity, loss-less, spatial audio. With the tech right there, why is this so hard? There is good reason people give up and stick with vinyl two speaker stereo and crappy portable bluetooth speakers.

 

[dlaloum]

From Tony at Audioholics, "The big question is the new 360 Spatial room correction. Dirac has their spatial room correction solution, which abandons the old method of correcting one channel at a time, instead using every speaker in a system simultaneously to optimize the reproduction of each input channel. Trinnov recently released...".

I didn't realize that the Sony room correction may go beyond Dirac Live, Audyssey, etc.'s Room Correction and be closer to Dirac's new ART and Trinnov's equivalent. This would corroborate Andrew Robinson's glowing review without going into detail, other than it sounded better than systems he's used with traditional Dirac. Very interesting, I can't wait for the upcoming detailed review.

It seems everyone is jumping into spatial audio, including Sonos with their leaked new Era line. Too bad Sonos and Apple are not getting along and Apple Music won't work on Sonos Atmos, and Denon and Sonos are not getting along.

All I want is a room-corrected, multi-independent-sub-bass-corrected, spatially-audioated, 7.2.4 atmos system with a Samsung Frame art exhibit look, that I can pipe to (Airplay) or from (various TV content like concerts) so I can have an audio art room plus home playing in high-fidelity, loss-less, spatial audio. With the tech right there, why is this so hard? There is good reason people give up and stick with vinyl two speaker stereo and crappy portable bluetooth speakers.

From what I am reading, I don't get the impression that the Sony 360 system does what Dirac does...

It appears that the Sony system does do speaker virtual repositioning - which is impressive - and until now that was a trinnov exclusive.

But there is no mention anywhere of impulse correction, or cooperative bass smoothing througout the listening area... things that both Trinnov and Dirac do.
And with Dirac ART - we have cooperative speaker use in combination with active reflection cancelling - another thing that the Sony system does not claim to do.

Right now we have differing spatial sound processing systems, that attempt to do different things in different ways - if your speakers and room are inherently imperfectly positioned, perhaps a system which virtually re-positions them to where they should be, will give better results than one that assume the speakers to be correctly placed, and then tries to adjust other parameters...

That would make the Sony system king of the multi-purpose living rooms...

But if your speakers are already well positioned, but you want to optimise the immersive effect by cancelling reflections - then Dirac ART (and perhaps the latest iteration of Trinnov) are going to be the best bet.

If you want to get even bass response throughout the room, it doesn't seem like the Sony system would be the best bet either.

A dedicated Home Theatre room, will probably be an environment where Trinnov will continue to rule - both due to price and capabilities...
A random living room, with lifestyle driven speaker layout, is likely to be Sony's domain.
A shared function living space, where the audio/video phile has had the ability to place the speakers either optimally or at some approximation of optimally, is likely to be Dirac's strong suit.

I don't think they set out to resolve the same problems!
Over the next decade, I expect that the features each have will converge, and they will become more similar, but right now, they have each focused on different aspects of performance, and will therefore best suit different environments.