The Insurance Issues with a Home Sell and Purchase in Florida

[cpp]

Well what a stress filled headache this has become. Our house built in 1993, 1500 yards from the ocean, poured concrete with rebar enforced exterior block walls, block poured concrete, w/rebar two internal support load bearing walls with 2 poured internal footers to support long steel beams. A concrete barrel tile roof, with 4x4 roof ceiling joist truss supports, ( to support the weight 2600 sq ft of roof, each tile is 8-11 lbs) on the load bearing walls. We installed impact windows and doors.

Well due to all the recent Hurricanes in Fla in the last 10 years. Mathew, Michael, Irma, Ian and Nicole most Insurance companies have pulled totally out of Fla, and cancelled their policies, or chose not to insurance anything 5- 10 miles inland from the coast, regardless of how your home is built, even if you have never had a claim.. Mathew and Ian and Nicole gave us the most issues with dune erosion and flooding.

Our home wasn't impacted at all. BUT !, we got cancelled along with 53, 000 home owners and business and had 30 days to hunt insurance. When we bought the home in 2014, our home owners insurance including flood was $2965 a year, so last year we ended up with only 2 insurance companies in Fla that would even insure us, so now we pay a year, $4817 plus a $1100 for flood insurance .

So, since our home is on the market ( and we are downsizing to 1900 sqft) , and we got an offer, and its pending, the home we are looking at is in Volusia County ( think Daytona, Deland west of I-95. Since Ian and Nicole, our insurance company we now have , will NOT insure any property in the county wide land area in Volusia County regardless where it is all due to Ian and Nicole. But they will insure our current home in Flagler County 1500 yards from the beach. Makes no freaking sense. Our buyers are also hunting for insurance. The games being played by these companies is unreal. The people we are buying the home from west of I-95 are moving to World Golf Village in St Johns County west of I-95 to downsize, they also are having issues getting home owners insurance. It appears all insurance companies are basing their decisions on roof age, NOT how its constructed or built even with a roof inspection by a few roofers, that provide in writing your roof has 20 - 30 more years left. All closings have been set, pending all parties can get home owners insurance. And I be dam if I'm going to forgo not having insurance, as some have chosen to do in this state and play roulette with my home, in the event of fire, wind damage etc.. What a freaking hassle insurance has become that is impacting so many home owners in this state and any coastal state including Texas, Ga, SC, NC etc.. One company notes, if your roof is over 20 years, it needs to be replaced regardless of the material used. As an example, to replace our current roof, is $62,160 And water heaters cannot be over 10 years old. Gee !.

Thank you for allowing me to blow off some steam.

 

[Mikado463]

Wow Chris, sorry to hear of all your troubles. I guess that explains why my rent for my townhouse over on AMI is going up 2k for next year !

 

[highfigh]

A friend was in a mobile home park in Estero and many of the homes around his lost their roofs, walls, blew over, fell apart, etc. His had water intrusion, but very little damage from the hurricane, itself. The water came from the Estero River, and guess where flood insurance is unavailable.....He got a bit more than $5K for the hurricane damage and nothing for the rest, including floors, 3' of drywall, insulation, wiring, plumbing, trim, cabinets, doors, etc.

When he was nearly finished repairing it, he decided "F&ck it!" and bought a house that's nearing completion, a bit further inland. Concrete block walls with rebar, fllled with mortar, metal roof, hurricane-rated doors and windows, on higher ground.....

 

[mtrycrafts]

Wow Chris, sorry to hear of all your troubles. I guess that explains why my rent for my townhouse over on AMI is going up 2k for next year !

Is that by $2k or will be $2k.

 

[Mikado463]

Is that by $2k or will be $2k.

going up 2k for a one month rental. When we started going to Anna Maria 15 years ago it was $3500 for the month, 10k now and 12k next year.

 

[cpp]

Wow Chris, sorry to hear of all your troubles. I guess that explains why my rent for my townhouse over on AMI is going up 2k for next year !

I tell ya Dave, its impacting everyone. Insurance goes up, property owners have to pass it down the chain.

 

[cpp]

A friend was in a mobile home park in Estero and many of the homes around his lost their roofs, walls, blew over, fell apart, etc. His had water intrusion, but very little damage from the hurricane, itself. The water came from the Estero River, and guess where flood insurance is unavailable.....He got a bit more than $5K for the hurricane damage and nothing for the rest, including floors, 3' of drywall, insulation, wiring, plumbing, trim, cabinets, doors, etc.

When he was nearly finished repairing it, he decided "F&ck it!" and bought a house that's nearing completion, a bit further inland. Concrete block walls with rebar, fllled with mortar, metal roof, hurricane-rated doors and windows, on higher ground.....

My older daughter lives in Cape Coral about 6 miles from the gulf close to Matlache. They lost some shingles the road flooded with 3 ft of water but their home was built on a hill and their home stayed dry, with the exception of one of their hurricane shutters was ripped off the west side of the house, and them the window, broke. All the homes around them still are waiting for their roofs to be replaced or repaired.

 

[highfigh]

My older daughter lives in Cape Coral about 6 miles from the gulf close to Matlache. They lost some shingles the road flooded with 3 ft of water but their home was built on a hill and their home stayed dry, with the exception of one of their hurricane shutters was ripped off the west side of the house, and them the window, broke. All the homes around them still are waiting for their roofs to be replaced or repaired.

My friend said that the state is going to mandate raising the level of any new construction and in some levels, that means 10' higher. We discussed this- if the power goes out and the homeowners don't have a generator, even if they have a lift of some kind, they're going to have a really hard time getting out, especially if they're old, disabled and weak. Getting out easily doesn't include falling out, either.

If they mandate this, they'll need to have some kind of program for people who need a lift and I would NEVER expect anyone to abuse that. Oh, no, they wouldn't do that.

Materials are still scarce and expensive. My friend didn't need to buy Romex, but I needed some last week and went to HD. Their wiring is now behind a locked gate and 15' of 14-2 cost $22! That's fckuing insane!

 

[TLS Guy]

Well what a stress filled headache this has become. Our house built in 1993, 1500 yards from the ocean, poured concrete with rebar enforced exterior block walls, block poured concrete, w/rebar two internal support load bearing walls with 2 poured internal footers to support long steel beams. A concrete barrel tile roof, with 4x4 roof ceiling joist truss supports, ( to support the weight 2600 sq ft of roof, each tile is 8-11 lbs) on the load bearing walls. We installed impact windows and doors.

Well due to all the recent Hurricanes in Fla in the last 10 years. Mathew, Michael, Irma, Ian and Nicole most Insurance companies have pulled totally out of Fla, and cancelled their policies, or chose not to insurance anything 5- 10 miles inland from the coast, regardless of how your home is built, even if you have never had a claim.. Mathew and Ian and Nicole gave us the most issues with dune erosion and flooding.

Our home wasn't impacted at all. BUT !, we got cancelled along with 53, 000 home owners and business and had 30 days to hunt insurance. When we bought the home in 2014, our home owners insurance including flood was $2965 a year, so last year we ended up with only 2 insurance companies in Fla that would even insure us, so now we pay a year, $4817 plus a $1100 for flood insurance .

So, since our home is on the market ( and we are downsizing to 1900 sqft) , and we got an offer, and its pending, the home we are looking at is in Volusia County ( think Daytona, Deland west of I-95. Since Ian and Nicole, our insurance company we now have , will NOT insure any property in the county wide land area in Volusia County regardless where it is all due to Ian and Nicole. But they will insure our current home in Flagler County 1500 yards from the beach. Makes no freaking sense. Our buyers are also hunting for insurance. The games being played by these companies is unreal. The people we are buying the home from west of I-95 are moving to World Golf Village in St Johns County west of I-95 to downsize, they also are having issues getting home owners insurance. It appears all insurance companies are basing their decisions on roof age, NOT how its constructed or built even with a roof inspection by a few roofers, that provide in writing your roof has 20 - 30 more years left. All closings have been set, pending all parties can get home owners insurance. And I be dam if I'm going to forgo not having insurance, as some have chosen to do in this state and play roulette with my home, in the event of fire, wind damage etc.. What a freaking hassle insurance has become that is impacting so many home owners in this state and any coastal state including Texas, Ga, SC, NC etc.. One company notes, if your roof is over 20 years, it needs to be replaced regardless of the material used. As an example, to replace our current roof, is $62,160 And water heaters cannot be over 10 years old. Gee !.

Thank you for allowing me to blow off some steam.

This is a huge problem. We have acquaintances who last year bought a winter home in Fort Myers with a view to it being there retirement home. The insurance was so high they decided to go bare. Well the hurricane totally destroyed it. So they will be spending their retirement back here in Minnesota.

Insurance rates are rising here as well, and we have taken on a much higher deductible. Here in Minnesota we are getting more frequent severe weather events. The Tornado season is extending, and they are more frequent, and moving to the higher end of the scale. One small town on lake near Alexandria was wiped off the map by a tornado this past summer.

That is why I built this home as an insulated concrete form home, beefed up the roof and had it tied down with hurricane clips.

The problem with wooden construction homes built with 2X6 frame construction, is it is too easily shredded. I personally think it is time to ban that construction. In 2020 we had a bad wind driven hail storm that did damage to downspouts and broke outside lighting, so we have been fairly lucky.

I don't think this is the fault of the insurance companies, their losses are rapidly escalating and becoming unsustainable.

The only advice I have is to try and avoid buying a wood frame house and if you build one, do not use frame construction. Unless you are high on a hill, and or have a very low water table, do not build a basement. In all of our previous four houses we had basement water issues from time to time. So I made good and sure this house has no basement. Normally this would have been a rambler with basement. Now the basement is the second story, and the mechanical room is upstairs. I call it an upside down house!

 

[cpp]

This is a huge problem. We have acquaintances who last year bought a winter home in Fort Myers with a view to it being there retirement home. The insurance was so high they decided to go bare. Well the hurricane totally destroyed it. So they will be spending their retirement back here in Minnesota.

Insurance rates are rising here as well, and we have taken on a much higher deductible. Here in Minnesota we are getting more frequent severe weather events. The Tornado season is extending, and they are more frequent, and moving to the higher end of the scale. One small town on lake near Alexandria was wiped off the map by a tornado this past summer.

That is why I built this home as an insulated concrete form home, beefed up the roof and had it tied down with hurricane clips.

The problem with wooden construction homes built with 2X6 frame construction, is it is too easily shredded. I personally think it is time to ban that construction. In 2020 we had a bad wind driven hail storm that did damage to downspouts and broke outside lighting, so we have been fairly lucky.

I don't think this is the fault of the insurance companies, their losses are rapidly escalating and becoming unsustainable.

The only advice I have is to try and avoid buying a wood frame house and if you build one, do not use frame construction. Unless you are high on a hill, and or have a very low water table, do not build a basement. In all of our previous four houses we had basement water issues from time to time. So I made good and sure this house has no basement. Normally this would have been a rambler with basement. Now the basement is the second story, and the mechanical room is upstairs. I call it an upside down house!

I wouldn't build a wood frame house in Fla or any where on the gulf coast. Cost of insurance is high. There are some building two and three story house where the first floor is poured concrete and the 2nd and 3rd story are wood frame. First floor is garage space, utility room, storage. But, they city or county approves the plan and loves the tax dollars.

Sooner or later something has to be done about insurance in general be it property, car, and health. ITs out of control. When peoples insurance is costing more than their mortgage payment , ya gots problems. If you ever sat down and just added up all your insurance cost, home owners, car, trucks, motorcycles etc., health ( med, vision, dental other) any seperate riders you have, its staggering

 

[highfigh]

This is a huge problem. We have acquaintances who last year bought a winter home in Fort Myers with a view to it being there retirement home. The insurance was so high they decided to go bare. Well the hurricane totally destroyed it. So they will be spending their retirement back here in Minnesota.

Insurance rates are rising here as well, and we have taken on a much higher deductible. Here in Minnesota we are getting more frequent severe weather events. The Tornado season is extending, and they are more frequent, and moving to the higher end of the scale. One small town on lake near Alexandria was wiped off the map by a tornado this past summer.

That is why I built this home as an insulated concrete form home, beefed up the roof and had it tied down with hurricane clips.

The problem with wooden construction homes built with 2X6 frame construction, is it is too easily shredded. I personally think it is time to ban that construction. In 2020 we had a bad wind driven hail storm that did damage to downspouts and broke outside lighting, so we have been fairly lucky.

I don't think this is the fault of the insurance companies, their losses are rapidly escalating and becoming unsustainable.

The only advice I have is to try and avoid buying a wood frame house and if you build one, do not use frame construction. Unless you are high on a hill, and or have a very low water table, do not build a basement. In all of our previous four houses we had basement water issues from time to time. So I made good and sure this house has no basement. Normally this would have been a rambler with basement. Now the basement is the second story, and the mechanical room is upstairs. I call it an upside down house!

How would you recommend building houses in a way that people can afford? Stick framing was less expensive until recently but COVID, as a factor in so many industries, was an anomaly. One reason so many homes were destroyed is that it's prohibitively expensive to keep up with codes when the house has existed for years or decades. You can't expect people to gut their house just to add hurricane clips, hurricane-rated windows, harder sheathing and then, because of storm surges, they need to do something about the water.

Basements are fine, just design the place correctly WRT site/soil prep, making sure water can't intrude and that it will drain and flow away from the building. Minnesota isn't anything like FL, and this isn't a universal requirement. Many tropical places have known for a long time- put it on stilts if hurricanes are a problem. Some buildings in FL were on stilts and they survived, same with many of the newly constructed buildings but as with any home purchase, inspection, documentation and building codes make a huge difference in whether one place is a good bet.

I have friends who bought a condo in the Bahamas and Bill went there to do some work on their boat just before Hurricane Dorian hit. You may have seen some of the devastation but he was in it- it passed directly over their pace and moved along at the blistering pace of 6'/second. He was in the 2nd floor condo when it passed and they decided to go to a different unit when they heard the roof begin to separate from the rest of the building. Another problem on that island is the fact that the highest point is about 34' above sea level before Dorian waltzed through, but that changed, too. The wind speed during Dorian was much higher than Ian and Nicole, too- 185 MPH sustained and gusts up to 220 MPH. There was also less to slow the wind. Other friends have places and things in the Ft Myers area- one had a van that he stored some tools and other things inside- that moved 20 yards and was shoved into a telephone pole, ending up with water halfway up the windows. The canvas on his boat was damaged, but it was OK, aside from that. One sailboat was found many yards away from its slip, on fairly high ground, in a small wooded area.

My friend in Estero said whole houses were floating in the Gulf, many are still underwater with all kinds of boats and wheeled vehicles.

Another problem that came with the recent FL hurricanes- they also had several tornadoes during those storms.

People think we can stand up to the forces of nature- we can't.

 

[highfigh]

I wouldn't build a wood frame house in Fla or any where on the gulf coast. Cost of insurance is high. There are some building two and three story house where the first floor is poured concrete and the 2nd and 3rd story are wood frame. First floor is garage space, utility room, storage. But, they city or county approves the plan and loves the tax dollars.

Sooner or later something has to be done about insurance in general be it property, car, and health. ITs out of control. When peoples insurance is costing more than their mortgage payment , ya gots problems. If you ever sat down and just added up all your insurance cost, home owners, car, trucks, motorcycles etc., health ( med, vision, dental other) any seperate riders you have, its staggering

It's all about shared risk and in too many cases, the insurance industry has say on its piles of money while immense loss after immense loss has occurred, denying claims for people who can't afford to absorb the expense. They have had people calculating the risks for all kinds of occurrences for literally thousands of years and it's definitely a form of gambling- we're betting that we'll have a problem and they're betting that we won't, but the deck is stacked in favor of the insurers. Look at how they hide profits in brand new headquarters, naming rights for stadiums and event spaces, giant flags and flag poles (Acuity, in Sheboygan, WI), etc- they gain assets while we lose ours. In 2010, we had a storm that dumped a lot of water in a very short time and it didn't take the usual path, so the Milwaukee River had a surge unlike anything that has happened since it became a city. I had water in my basement, mainly because my sump pump couldn't work due to the power outage. The other side of the street didn't lose power, but our side was out from 9:45PM until about 4:30AM and that was plenty of time for the sump crock and sewer to fill and enter peoples' basements. Fortunately, the water from the sewer was clear but even though I have sewer and sump backup protection, someone from Acuity told me they would probably deny the claim because it came from both sources. Other insurance companies have said this should have been covered and eventually, Acuity did pay for it. I was lucky- compared with the kind of storm damage that occurs in other places, mine was like a walk in the park.

I recently changed my auto insurance- the old company swore up and down that the rate couldn't be lowered, but when I called around, several beat theirs by a lot- I shop insurers every year and this time, it was too good to pass up and my record is spotless. I'm saving $50/month just on car and when I finish a bathroom, I'll be able to save another $50/month but that still doesn't come close to my property tax bill, which is hard to change.

One thing that should have changed a few years ago but didn't, is due to the incredible losses being forced on Kia and Hyundai owners- roughly 68% of all cars stolen in Milwaukee are these two brands and they're so easy to steal that a group of idiots calling themselves the Kia Boys has made a point of going on TikTok and other social media, showing how cool (effing stupid) they are. This has now spread to other parts of the US and it's causing huge delays in finding replacement parts- people are waiting months for car repairs on old and new vehicles, but Progressive and State Farm only recently announced that they would no longer write policies for these two brands. People are dying because of these a$$holes and when asked, they said they didn't know about the penalties. These douchenozzles are as young as 12 years old.

Kia Boys documentary goes behind the scenes of Milwaukee's car theft, reckless driving crisis

The Kia Boys are becoming infamous around the Milwaukee area. Named for their most popular target, the group of young men and underage boys terrorize the

wtmj.com

‘Kia Boyz’ unaware of serious penalties that can result from joyriding

On May 31, the Milwaukee Youtuber Tommy Gerszewski, also known as “Tommy G.”, posted a sixteen-minute documentary on the Kia Boys which quickly garnered the attention of local and national media.

wislawjournal.com

 

[cpp]

How would you recommend building houses in a way that people can afford? Stick framing was less expensive until recently but COVID, as a factor in so many industries, was an anomaly. One reason so many homes were destroyed is that it's prohibitively expensive to keep up with codes when the house has existed for years or decades. You can't expect people to gut their house just to add hurricane clips, hurricane-rated windows, harder sheathing and then, because of storm surges, they need to do something about the water.

Basements are fine, just design the place correctly WRT site/soil prep, making sure water can't intrude and that it will drain and flow away from the building. Minnesota isn't anything like FL, and this isn't a universal requirement. Many tropical places have known for a long time- put it on stilts if hurricanes are a problem. Some buildings in FL were on stilts and they survived, same with many of the newly constructed buildings but as with any home purchase, inspection, documentation and building codes make a huge difference in whether one place is a good bet.

I have friends who bought a condo in the Bahamas and Bill went there to do some work on their boat just before Hurricane Dorian hit. You may have seen some of the devastation but he was in it- it passed directly over their pace and moved along at the blistering pace of 6'/second. He was in the 2nd floor condo when it passed and they decided to go to a different unit when they heard the roof begin to separate from the rest of the building. Another problem on that island is the fact that the highest point is about 34' above sea level before Dorian waltzed through, but that changed, too. The wind speed during Dorian was much higher than Ian and Nicole, too- 185 MPH sustained and gusts up to 220 MPH. There was also less to slow the wind. Other friends have places and things in the Ft Myers area- one had a van that he stored some tools and other things inside- that moved 20 yards and was shoved into a telephone pole, ending up with water halfway up the windows. The canvas on his boat was damaged, but it was OK, aside from that. One sailboat was found many yards away from its slip, on fairly high ground, in a small wooded area.

My friend in Estero said whole houses were floating in the Gulf, many are still underwater with all kinds of boats and wheeled vehicles.

Another problem that came with the recent FL hurricanes- they also had several tornadoes during those storms.

People think we can stand up to the forces of nature- we can't.

There are new homes going up that are wood frame as I write this all over Fla. Sure they all are now required to have straps, plates, clips and since 2002 impact windows or wind rated shutters, and a higher rated shingle. But the issuance companies are not cancelling people for that, its the roofs they deem not cover-able and a hot water over 10 years old. They are Not canceling anyone for double pan windows if your home was built that way before 2002.

In the last two hurricanes in Fla, Ian broke down the dunes on the coast and rose the water and flooded the lakes, rivers and the inter-coastal throughout central Fl and North Fla. Nicole came along and intensified the flooded areas with high winds of 75 and heavy rain but the circulation did its damage to coastal areas as it pulled water into the weakened beaches. Like I noted my daughter lives in Cape Coral and her home was right in the path of Ian, and thankfully the construction protected her home with minimal damage.

No you cannot stop mother nature, but you can stop nonsense by greedy insurance companies.

The home we are buying, the wife and I already have agreed to start a roof fund because knowing these crooks, it will have to be replaced or you could get cancelled or pay a hell of a premium.

I'm just waiting for the day, when insurance companies will STOP offering insurance on old homes period. I can see it now, your home is over 30 years old, we can't insure it. Talk about dilemmas for families.

 

[highfigh]

There are new homes going up that are wood frame as I write this all over Fla. Sure they all are now required to have straps, plates, clips and since 2002 impact windows or wind rated shutters, and a higher rated shingle. But the issuance companies are not cancelling people for that, its the roofs they deem not cover-able and a hot water over 10 years old. They are Not canceling anyone for double pan windows if your home was built that way before 2002.

In the last two hurricanes in Fla, Ian broke down the dunes on the coast and rose the water and flooded the lakes, rivers and the inter-coastal throughout central Fl and North Fla. Nicole came along and intensified the flooded areas with high winds of 75 and heavy rain but the circulation did its damage to coastal areas as it pulled water into the weakened beaches. Like I noted my daughter lives in Cape Coral and her home was right in the path of Ian, and thankfully the construction protected her home with minimal damage.

No you cannot stop mother nature, but you can stop nonsense by greedy insurance companies.

The home we are buying, the wife and I already have agreed to start a roof fund because knowing these crooks, it will have to be replaced or you could get cancelled or pay a hell of a premium.

I'm just waiting for the day, when insurance companies will STOP offering insurance on old homes period. I can see it now, your home is over 30 years old, we can't insure it. Talk about dilemmas for families.

I'm no fan of the insurance industry, but I'm not naive enough to believe that all of these homes that fell apart were built well. Some parts of the US don't use code enforcement at all, some are like an HOA on Cocaine, steroids, Red Bull and every other energy drink you can think of.

Imagine that you sell insurance and people come to you with money, to be used to cover the losses from storms, but they're like something a child would build. After thinking about this, I'm pretty sure 'The Three Little Pigs' was written by someone at an insurance company.

People need to find out what they're buying before signing the papers. Not far from here, a house had an explosion which was supposedly not from natural gas. It blew out windows and part of a wall, which showed how that place was built- the inside may have had drywall or paneling, but on the outside of the framing was pink foam board with siding nailed directly over it. No other sheathing, whatsoever. I worked on a condo that was built similarly- I thought it was a complete joke-if someone had known it was built so badly, door locks would have been a total waste of money because they could have kicked their way through any exterior wall and the one I worked on is in an area where strong tornadoes are common.

 

[cpp]

The Three Little Pigs' was written by someone at an insurance company

, sounds about right

 

[lovinthehd]

I grew up with Florida real estate mostly being a joke (like buying land in a swamp sort of thing for the naive). My maternal grandparents did evenutally retire there, but didn't experience particularly horrible weather events (but their location later did, but they'd passed by then). I couldn't stand the humidity down there myself, nor the limited (or rather simply dangerous) cycling when I did go there. Grandparents loved it, tho. Just not where I'd go in the first place. Sorry to hear how bad climate change is affecting the state....so just what is that doofus deSantis doing for y'all?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

New U.S. sea rise projections are lower but still forecast grim future for Florida

As attention and urgency ramp up around the world over the looming dangers of climate change, a major new federal report released on Tuesday offers a surprising forecast: It actually reduces the amount of sea level rise the world is expected to see as the Earth warms.

wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu

At least updated sea level raises aren't as grim as 5 years ago, but an 11" raise by 2040. Let's say you have a property in the keys or in south Florida, I'd recommend relocation asap, or you are risking not just your mortgage to be underwater but your entire house.

 

[TLS Guy]

How would you recommend building houses in a way that people can afford? Stick framing was less expensive until recently but COVID, as a factor in so many industries, was an anomaly. One reason so many homes were destroyed is that it's prohibitively expensive to keep up with codes when the house has existed for years or decades. You can't expect people to gut their house just to add hurricane clips, hurricane-rated windows, harder sheathing and then, because of storm surges, they need to do something about the water.

Basements are fine, just design the place correctly WRT site/soil prep, making sure water can't intrude and that it will drain and flow away from the building. Minnesota isn't anything like FL, and this isn't a universal requirement. Many tropical places have known for a long time- put it on stilts if hurricanes are a problem. Some buildings in FL were on stilts and they survived, same with many of the newly constructed buildings but as with any home purchase, inspection, documentation and building codes make a huge difference in whether one place is a good bet.

I have friends who bought a condo in the Bahamas and Bill went there to do some work on their boat just before Hurricane Dorian hit. You may have seen some of the devastation but he was in it- it passed directly over their pace and moved along at the blistering pace of 6'/second. He was in the 2nd floor condo when it passed and they decided to go to a different unit when they heard the roof begin to separate from the rest of the building. Another problem on that island is the fact that the highest point is about 34' above sea level before Dorian waltzed through, but that changed, too. The wind speed during Dorian was much higher than Ian and Nicole, too- 185 MPH sustained and gusts up to 220 MPH. There was also less to slow the wind. Other friends have places and things in the Ft Myers area- one had a van that he stored some tools and other things inside- that moved 20 yards and was shoved into a telephone pole, ending up with water halfway up the windows. The canvas on his boat was damaged, but it was OK, aside from that. One sailboat was found many yards away from its slip, on fairly high ground, in a small wooded area.

My friend in Estero said whole houses were floating in the Gulf, many are still underwater with all kinds of boats and wheeled vehicles.

Another problem that came with the recent FL hurricanes- they also had several tornadoes during those storms.

People think we can stand up to the forces of nature- we can't.

ICF construction is only marginally more expensive than frame. By now it may be the same. The materials are higher, but the labor is far less. The construction goes fast, one or two guys can out up the forms in a few days, and the concrete is poured in a day. This saves literally weeks of construction time. The energy efficiency provides long term savings. In addition the noise isolation is excellent. I would never go back to frame construction.

As far as water table, in Minnesota, parts of the Dakotas, and Manitoba there are very high water tables. In Manitoba the water table was right under the house and we got our water from a sand point. In wet weather there were seepage issues.

We built two homes in the Red River Valley. That is a nightmare for high water tables. The sump pumps ran a good deal of the time and we went through two floods. The first was a flash event and we got a basement full. The second was the great flood of 1997. I went all out with a dike. The roads had four to five feet of water. The drain plugs held. However the water pressure was so great that there was seepage, and the carpet had to be replaced. However compared to other people damage we got off lightly.

At the lake home in Benedict, we were at the junction of two plates, the Wadena and Superior plates and over a huge ice age aquifer. Water poured out of the ground all over the place. I calculated the pressure of the aquifer to be 80 lb./sq.in. Only one back corner of the house was slightly below ground and that gave trouble and I had to put a sump and pump in to control it.

When I built here in Eagan, I found that the average water table was 15' below where the first floor had to be, to keep the line with the other houses. So I decided correctly that there would be NO basement. With ICF construction you don't need the hassle of a basement as in effect the whole structure has an R factor better than a basement.

As far as loosing older houses, the issue here will be electric vehicle charging. In the older neighborhoods of the metro, especially Minneapolis and St. Paul a great many of the older houses, do not have garages or off street parking. It has already been ruled that on street charging will not be allowed. At the same time in Minnesota the phase out of fossil fueled cars is on an aggressive schedule. I think this will lead to a lot of older neighborhoods being pushed over.

That issue exists in the UK, where a vast number of homes have no possibility of off street parking and the phase out of fossil fuel cars is highly aggressive.

I have a feeling we are headed for a lot of strife over this issue.

 

[highfigh]

ICF construction is only marginally more expensive than frame. By now it may be the same. The materials are higher, but the labor is far less. The construction goes fast, one or two guys can out up the forms in a few days, and the concrete is poured in a day. This saves literally weeks of construction time. The energy efficiency provides long term savings. In addition the noise isolation is excellent. I would never go back to frame construction.

As far as water table, in Minnesota, parts of the Dakotas, and Manitoba there are very high water tables. In Manitoba the water table was right under the house and we got our water from a sand point. In wet weather there were seepage issues.

We built two homes in the Red River Valley. That is a nightmare for high water tables. The sump pumps ran a good deal of the time and we went through two floods. The first was a flash event and we got a basement full. The second was the great flood of 1997. I went all out with a dike. The roads had four to five feet of water. The drain plugs held. However the water pressure was so great that there was seepage, and the carpet had to be replaced. However compared to other people damage we got off lightly.

At the lake home in Benedict, we were at the junction of two plates, the Wadena and Superior plates and over a huge ice age aquifer. Water poured out of the ground all over the place. I calculated the pressure of the aquifer to be 80 lb./sq.in. Only one back corner of the house was slightly below ground and that gave trouble and I had to put a sump and pump in to control it.

When I built here in Eagan, I found that the average water table was 15' below where the first floor had to be, to keep the line with the other houses. So I decided correctly that there would be NO basement. With ICF construction you don't need the hassle of a basement as in effect the whole structure has an R factor better than a basement.

As far as loosing older houses, the issue here will be electric vehicle charging. In the older neighborhoods of the metro, especially Minneapolis and St. Paul a great many of the older houses, do not have garages or off street parking. It has already been ruled that on street charging will not be allowed. At the same time in Minnesota the phase out of fossil fueled cars is on an aggressive schedule. I think this will lead to a lot of older neighborhoods being pushed over.

That issue exists in the UK, where a vast number of homes have no possibility of off street parking and the phase out of fossil fuel cars is highly aggressive.

I have a feeling we are headed for a lot of strife over this issue.

These places aren't ICF, they're stick built with 1"-2" sheets nailed onto the framing in a single layer. I was appalled by the way they were built.

ICF and factory-built are the way housing should go- I don't have a problem supporting laborers, but the lack of consistency & accuracy and the long construction time are a problem. The delays due to weather and people calling in sick really add to the cost and it's considered 'OK' by too many. My friend in Estero had a house built in Missouri and the framing carpenter spent almost an hour trying to figure out the angle between the ridges of the house and garage. While he was telling me about this, I looked at the plans he had sent and when he asked about the angle I saw, it was obvious. I don't know how the carpenter reached his skill level, but he could have easily grabbed his speed square or a short ruler to find that it was 45 degrees.

 

[highfigh]

I grew up with Florida real estate mostly being a joke (like buying land in a swamp sort of thing for the naive). My maternal grandparents did evenutally retire there, but didn't experience particularly horrible weather events (but their location later did, but they'd passed by then). I couldn't stand the humidity down there myself, nor the limited (or rather simply dangerous) cycling when I did go there. Grandparents loved it, tho. Just not where I'd go in the first place. Sorry to hear how bad climate change is affecting the state....so just what is that doofus deSantis doing for y'all?

Did you enjoy the Noseeums?

I have been to Florida twice- it was Winter the first time and Fall the second, for a boat show and a boat manufacturer's dealer meeting. The second time, it was humid, rained every day but it was nice, although we were on Sanibel, so I guess the humidity was to be expected. Not a fan of stewing in my own juices.