Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
WRT "When the redneck cops arrived they shot her. It really does defy description._, did you NOT see the cop's name? His name is Mohammed Noor and he came to the US as a child. Do you actually know what a redneck is? Ever heard of a redneck with an Arabic name? Did you think to find more info before deciding that all American cops are rednecks? Have you ever met an American, or an American cop?

Wait for the details before you pass judgment.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
obviously Alec Baldwins gun handling skills need to be addressed ........
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
obviously Alec Baldwins gun handling skills need to be addressed ........
And that's not saying anything about his fine acting skills, as seen in 'Hunt For Red October'.....that had some of the worst special effects I have ever seen. Also, Sean Connery as a Lithuanian, but without changing his natural speech? GMAB! He did the same in 'Highlander', when he corrected someone by saying "I am a Spaniard", in his normal Scottish brogue. What range.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
And that's not saying anything about his fine acting skills,
and now Joy Behar (The View) says that Baldwin is being charged because he's a target for the Republicans ?? Someone needs to inform her that the DA is a Democrat !
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
and now Joy Behar (The View) says that Baldwin is being charged because he's a target for the Republicans ?? Someone needs to inform her that the DA is a Democrat !
I'd wager the charges are valid, but he shouldn't be the only one charged. There are a LOT of steps involved before that gun is placed in his hands and EVERYONE that handled it before he did should shoulder the same blame. He trusted that the fire arms expert did his job and he was wrong.

A lot of people should be getting in trouble for this.
 
mono-bloc

mono-bloc

Full Audioholic
Wait for the details before you pass judgment.
The woman's dead, Mate. That sounds like a final judgement to me.

Have you ever met an American
Yes I used to do business, with one / them before the exchange rates crashed. Most are self opinionated, with hugh ego's. I'm sorry but your country's in the crapper. While it presents it'self as bigger and better then anywhere else, the truth is a different story, With slums, poverty, crime and bankruptcy , Just look at the fersard in down town Detroit. or your retirement mecca of Florida, Now go past the affluent big homes and estates, and take a look at the real Florida. Where normal people exist, with mass unemployment, and massive crime rates. Is it any wonder there all armed to the teeth, in a attempt to protect nothing. You have two classes, the very rich, and the dirtbag poor. It's really nothing to be proud off Your health care is non-existent, you ether pay or you die.
I'm not saying Australia is a modern utopia, But it's a bloody sight better then your country .
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I'd wager the charges are valid, but he shouldn't be the only one charged.
he's not

There are a LOT of steps involved before that gun is placed in his hands and EVERYONE that handled it before he did should shoulder the same blame. He trusted that the fire arms expert did his job and he was wrong.

A lot of people should be getting in trouble for this.
I agree with you 'to a point', but understand this............ Commandment #1 in the 10 Commandments of gun safety is this, 'Treat every gun with the respect due a loaded gun'. When that gun was handed off to Baldwin, two people failed, the person handing him the Colt45 and Baldwin himself. If I were to hand over one of my revolvers to you the first thing I do is swing open the cylinder and mty its contents. In the case of the SA Colt 45 it's done as such .......

 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
and now Joy Behar (The View) says that Baldwin is being charged because he's a target for the Republicans ?? Someone needs to inform her that the DA is a Democrat !
Can someone please launch that pinhead into deep space?

Sounds like she gargles with Latex paint.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The woman's dead, Mate. That sounds like a final judgement to me.


Yes I used to do business, with one / them before the exchange rates crashed. Most are self opinionated, with hugh ego's. I'm sorry but your country's in the crapper. While it presents it'self as bigger and better then anywhere else, the truth is a different story, With slums, poverty, crime and bankruptcy , Just look at the fersard in down town Detroit. or your retirement mecca of Florida, Now go past the affluent big homes and estates, and take a look at the real Florida. Where normal people exist, with mass unemployment, and massive crime rates. Is it any wonder there all armed to the teeth, in a attempt to protect nothing. You have two classes, the very rich, and the dirtbag poor. It's really nothing to be proud off Your health care is non-existent, you ether pay or you die.
I'm not saying Australia is a modern utopia, But it's a bloody sight better then your country .
OK, let me ask this- do you know everything that led to the shooting? No, you don't. Nobody has revealed all of the details, so again, we should wait for details.

Did someone mention that she reported something about a car break-in?

I'm not going to argue about most of what you wrote- yes, our country is in the crapper and a lot of it is due to Congress, but also our education system. When the system allows kids to graduate without being able to read/write, do basic Math(s), make decisions that should seem like a no-brainer (lucky for them, they qualify for that), it's inevitable.

FYI- Detroit is led by Democrats and has been, for a long time. That city was funded largely by the Big 3 Automakers but when they left town, there was no one to pay for what the city needed. Milwaukee is another example of a city that was once very nice. but is circling the drain and once again, it falls on the shoulder of three of the four mayors who were elected in/after 1960. Before anyone tries to blame the republicans for this, you need to know that Milwaukee hasn't had an elected Republican Mayor since 1916. It has, however, had a Mayor who clearly wanted to keep minorities in 'their own' areas of the city. He was elected in 1960 and stayed in office until 1988. The city is very Liberal and the link shows that. Conservatives can no longer consider living there because they disagree with the politics, high taxes, bad schools, crime, terrible roads....it would take too long to list everything bad that's happening here and by 'here', I mean in the Milwaukee Metropolitan area, which includes all of the counties surrounding the city. I live in a suburb that shares its Southern border with Milwaukee and we're being inundated by the a$$holes from Milwaukee who think this is where they should do their one stop shopping.

WRT very rich and dirtbag poor, you know nothing about this country. You think you know about the health care system, but you don't. People who couldn't pay for health care would go to the Emergency Rooms of hospitals and they would be treated, for EVERYTHING. That means, they would go when they had a cold, a stubbed toe, a little splinter, a rash...any minor ailment that SHOULD have been treated at a clinic was handled by hospitals. The result, which I doubt you would imagine, was that many hospitals closed because they're businesses, not nationally-run.

You referred to the US being bigger and better- it's not the whole country, it's some aspects of the country that have done great things. This is/was called 'American Exceptionalism' that made the country special but unfortunately, it has devolved to being 'short bus special'. Many people in this country can't be bothered to try supporting themselves. They quit school because they have some kind of safety net. It doesn't provide all they need, but with the supplemental income they receive from their criminal activities, they do OK.

You're putting everyone in the same groups- legal gun owners aren't the problem and you should be able to understand that, but it seems to be difficult for you. Here's an example of someone who shouldn't have had a gun, but he did and he used it to do something extremely stupid. Fortunately, only the house was hit.


I hear gunfire throughout the year and it's from Milwaukee (I live about 300 yards from the border). If it happens in the city where I live, it's someone who comes in from Milwaukee, or has moved here from Milwaukee. The US Marshalls arrested someone in the house next door- he was wanted for shooting three, one of whom died. He was asked to leave a bar/restaurant because he was under the drinking age, according to their policy. He left and returned with a gun- he's 25 and that's the age someone needs to be in order to buy/consume alcohol in that place. The shopping mall that's 2 miles to the East has been raped by Milwaukee shoplifters since the early-'80-s and it came very near closing, entirely. They had lost so many stores that the owners handed the keys to their lender and basically said "Here- it's yours.Maybe you can do something with it".

This country has a helluva lot of stupid people as well as criminals and a terrible Congress that has had 12-13% approval rating for decades. But in the last two, I'm repeating myself.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I agree with you 'to a point', but understand this............ Commandment #1 in the 10 Commandments of gun safety is this, 'Treat every gun with the respect due a loaded gun'. When that gun was handed off to Baldwin, two people failed, the person handing him the Colt45 and Baldwin himself. If I were to hand over one of my revolvers to you the first thing I do is swing open the cylinder and mty its contents. In the case of the SA Colt 45 it's done as such .......

Looks like he missed on 7 out of ten.
 
mono-bloc

mono-bloc

Full Audioholic
I'm not going to argue about most of what you wrote-
Thank you for your informative reply, Unfortunately we have to rely on what's reported in our news be it right or wrong. Things get changed , or reported to suit the news presenter or channel [ we only have four main TV channels ] I freely admit I have no knowledge of your electoral system or how your local governments / councils operate. So I have to generalize which is probably the wrong way to go. But again I only have what's reported to go on. Just perhaps I should access one of your news services to get a better picture of your environment. But like a lot reported news. He who shouts the loudest, is heard the most.

You would probably get the same response reading our news. And in most cases wonder why things where reported in the first place. My local big new is they have finally sealed the road between our village and the next one, which has been on the repair agenda for the last 25 years. Not exactly world shattering. But news is news
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
he's not



I agree with you 'to a point', but understand this............ Commandment #1 in the 10 Commandments of gun safety is this, 'Treat every gun with the respect due a loaded gun'. When that gun was handed off to Baldwin, two people failed, the person handing him the Colt45 and Baldwin himself. If I were to hand over one of my revolvers to you the first thing I do is swing open the cylinder and mty its contents. In the case of the SA Colt 45 it's done as such .......

I can't help but wonder if an actor would even be able to tell the difference between types of rounds? It should be obvious, but then safety should also be obvious and in this case it 100% was not.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I can't help but wonder if an actor would even be able to tell the difference between types of rounds? It should be obvious, but then safety should also be obvious and in this case it 100% was not.
It's not like this was his first time handling a firearm.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thank you for your informative reply, Unfortunately we have to rely on what's reported in our news be it right or wrong. Things get changed , or reported to suit the news presenter or channel [ we only have four main TV channels ] I freely admit I have no knowledge of your electoral system or how your local governments / councils operate. So I have to generalize which is probably the wrong way to go. But again I only have what's reported to go on. Just perhaps I should access one of your news services to get a better picture of your environment. But like a lot reported news. He who shouts the loudest, is heard the most.

You would probably get the same response reading our news. And in most cases wonder why things where reported in the first place. My local big new is they have finally sealed the road between our village and the next one, which has been on the repair agenda for the last 25 years. Not exactly world shattering. But news is news
Don't just trust the news- they print what they do so people will buy their crap and so advertisers will buy space and time on the TV screen.

I try to avoid third-hand reports- they copy & paste as well as anyone, but if they don't show their sources, they're making it up or (mis)interpreting what others wrote and/or promoting their own agenda.

Last weekend was a bad one- in California, two shootings resulted in 18 dead, more injured. This is in a state where the legislature wants guns to be taken out of the hands of the people. The Sheriff called the weapon a "magazine-fed assault pistol". His terminology is part of that agenda- it's meant to scare people when they're already scared shyteless by the a$$holes who go around shooting people, yet they feel the need to scare them more. That's a great way to operate. Really- it's just effing great. No "we want to have an intelligent conversation", that would make too much sense. No "We want to get the guns out of the hands of criminals", that would make too much sense, too. "No "we want to get a handle on the mental health crisis". Ditto.

In Milwaukee (I live two blocks from the border), 18 were shot, four killed over the same weekend. One of the dead was a 13 year old. I had already posted a report about a guy who fired eight rounds at a house that was occupied by a woman and her grandkids- she doesn't know the guy, doesn't know why he would have done this but it's a good thing she ha a doorbell camera. It's also good that an off-duty cop saw it happen and was able to call in the license plate on the idiot's car. He was arrested and has been charged for this stupidity.

I think that in the interest of public safety, some very harsh penalties need to be returned to the courts. Also, the criminal justice system needs to be able to pull in people from other agencies, to enforce the restrictions on felons and parolees, who aren't allowed access to weapons, unless they meet specific requirements. The rest are supposed to be checked on periodically AND randomly for compliance, but the Justice system is badly understaffed. These people don't have the same protections form illegal search and seizure that law-abiding people do and they need to be held to their part of the deal, or face the consequences. The problem with this is that jails and prisons are already overcrowded, so space will need to be made- let small-time criminals out, but monitor them. Violent criminals shouldn't be let out until their sentence has been served and if you look at the lower part of the link, you'll see a photo of someone who died while in jail- he stood over people and shot them during (IIRC) Memorial Day Weekend, at a local park. He killed two, then fled to Mexico and was arrested a few months ago.

We have some real shyteheads here.



Your road took 25 years and I would ask "How many people live near you?". I would guess it's a very small town. Major cities have a lot of problems just because of the size of the population and the population density- if people can't get along with others, they shouldn't live in a place where too many people are nearby. Even if the average number of people who don't get along is 10%, that problem is compounded by the population density.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I can't help but wonder if an actor would even be able to tell the difference between types of rounds? It should be obvious, but then safety should also be obvious and in this case it 100% was not.
Baldwin has handled guns on movie sets for over 40 years. How can someone do that for so long and NOT think it would be a good idea to train with them? If it's just his arrogance and thinking that "I don't need to know how they work, I just want someone else to be responsible for any problems", he's an idiot. I can't imagine handling a strange weapon and NOT asking questions about its safe handling and about what I would need to know in order to be completely safe. The first thing I have always done when handed a firearm is turn and point it away from other people. He should have done the same.
 

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