Cinema 50 vs X3800h vs Rz50

[Oggaaaa]

I need help deciding which reciever to buy. I currently run a 5.2 system including SVS Ultra Towers, Center and Bookshelves and 2x PC-4000 subs. I have also bought a pair of Prime elevations to run as height channels.

I'm currently powering the speakers with a Yamaha RXV-779 and i think it handles the system well for both music and movies. I want a new reciever for atmos but also for 4k 120hz.

The Denon and Marantz is catching my
attention because of the 4 independent subwoofer outs and the upcoming Dirac Live upgrade but if I've understood it right it will not calibrate my dual subs with standard Dirac and for that i have to wait til 2024 for the bass management upgrade which results in even more money spent...

The rz-50 seems like a pretty complete package from the start with Dirac included and a powerful amp. It doesn't have independent subwoofer outs and will not support the dirac bass management upgrade tho which is kind of a dealbreaker.

So either go for the x3800h/Cinema 50 and run Audyssey and maybe upgrade to dirac later down the line or i go for the rz 50 and buy a Mini-DSP for bass management?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

After reading that, it seems like a D/M unit is right for you. FWIW, I run a 7.x.4 system with a Marantz 6012. Audyssey xt32 works very well Ime. I also use a minidspHD to tame three subs and a hovercouch. I have no complaints whatsoever with the Marantz. I’ve used all brands, and one thing to consider that is overlooked often, is the menu structure and overall product navigation. If you can spend some time playing around with different ones that may sway you as well. I still think a D/M will fit best. Try it now, and do the Dirac upgrade later if you want.

 

[Oggaaaa]

How about the Marantz vs the Denon then? They seem very similar on paper. The only comparison i've seen is Andrew Robinson:s on YouTube and he prefers the Cinema 50 as he thinks it performs a bit better with music. He is not using Audyssey in the comparison tho which i most likely will be using even with music content.

 

[rsharp]

I’ve used all brands, and one thing to consider that is overlooked often, is the menu structure and overall product navigation. If you can spend some time playing around with different ones that may sway you as well.

Completely agree. These details are serving as good tie-breakers between which brand to go with. I've watched some setup videos of the Cinema 50 and was quite impressed. Gene also has a video out on the web interface for the Yamaha RX-A6A which reveals a ton of options.

For the OP, correct in that if you get either the Limited Bandwidth ($249) or Full Bandwidth ($349) licenses for Dirac Live, that excludes bass management. A multi-sub license is $499. For Full bandwidth plus multi-sub, that would be $799 total.

While it's nice that some brands come with a Dirac license, I don't know if that is transferable so-to-speak. I believe it's tied to that particular unit. So if you get rid of that unit, the license would go with it.

I believe (though not 100%) that if you directly purchase a license from Dirac, that should be a "floating" license that you could then use with a single piece of equipment. So if you then move on to a new AVR later that supports Dirac, you shouldn't have to purchase a second license. i.e. the license can be transferred from one piece of equipment to another. Do double-check this assumption though.

 

[WadeT]

I have the Cinema 50 and it works great. I'm still messing with speaker configurations and such with Audysey but so far sounds killer and was easy to set up. Denon and Marantz are basically the same company.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd lean towards Denon, but if the feature set and price were right on a Marantz I'd not particularly care; they're far more similar than different. Andrew Robinson, meh. Nice to see Denon/Marantz (or just call 'em Masimo?) finally doing the four sub capability of Audyssey and that's interesting as well as some of the other features, particularly the potential to be able to use DL.

I'm still a little shy about Onkyo what with all the changes....but that would be a quicker way to get Dirac it seems (and seems the license is included in the avr cost too).... A little disappointing it doesn't have separately adjustable subs, tho.

 

[Oggaaaa]

Thanks alot for the answers. I'm leaning towards the Denon or Marantz and i really like the aesthetic of the Marantz but tbh it really isn't worth it for 300 euros which is the difference here in Sweden.

Would there be any reason to go for the Cinema 40 or X4800-H in my case?

 

[rsharp]

Would there be any reason to go for the Cinema 40 or X4800-H in my case?

For the two Denon models and two Marantz models, all have 9 channels of amplification and 11.4 channels of processing. Some of the advantages with the more expensive models are:

• Approx 20% more power (though who knows what the percentage increase would be with the Denon regarding multiple channels driven)
• Component video and composite video inputs (useful if you want to connect older components)
• 7 vs 6 HDMI inputs

The Cinema 40 is also a more premium build.

For myself, if choosing between the Cinema 40 and 50, I'd go with the 40. But that's because I need the component video input and I'd really like to have 7 HDMI inputs as I currently have 5 sources and plan to increase that.

So you'd have to see if there are any features that you'd need in the more expensive models and then figure out if the increase in cost would be worth it.

 

[Oggaaaa]

For the two Denon models and two Marantz models, all have 9 channels of amplification and 11.4 channels of processing. Some of the advantages with the more expensive models are:

• Approx 20% more power (though who knows what the percentage increase would be with the Denon regarding multiple channels driven)
• Component video and composite video inputs (useful if you want to connect older components)
• 7 vs 6 HDMI inputs

The Cinema 40 is also a more premium build.

For myself, if choosing between the Cinema 40 and 50, I'd go with the 40. But that's because I need the component video input and I'd really like to have 7 HDMI inputs as I currently have 5 sources and plan to increase that.

So you'd have to see if there are any features that you'd need in the more expensive models and then figure out if the increase in cost would be worth it.

The X3800-H and Cinema 50 has all the inputs and outputs required for my needs and the only reason for me to go for the bigger models is if they sound better.

 

[lovinthehd]

The X3800-H and Cinema 50 has all the inputs and outputs required for my needs and the only reason for me to go for the bigger models is if they sound better.

I seriously doubt you could tell them apart audibly.

 

[PENG]

The X3800-H and Cinema 50 has all the inputs and outputs required for my needs and the only reason for me to go for the bigger models is if they sound better.

Sure, but I would just add a couple points as food for thought. 1)Don't believe many of those youtubers who claimed night and day sound quality difference between those avrs, they made no logical sense at all if you listen carefully. For music, most if not all of them will not be able to tell those gear apart in a blind listening tests. For movies, there could be a difference but human's auditory memory are not great so unless you can compare them side by side with the ability to switch back and forth quickly, you won't be able to pick the one you really prefer. You may think you could but study showed that in a blind test when people could not tell which one was playing, their preference changed, became unreliable.

It is far better to not trust you ears/brains, but go with specs and measurements, and then if the numbers are close enough, pick the winner based on features you need, price and the look you prefer.

2) More power output for sure may help but only if your power need is close to the amp's rated output. If you have enough headroom such as 10 dB then it doesn't matter. The "bigger" models may give you twice as much output on paper, but the difference in perceived "loudness" at their maximum output (if you ever get that close to that..), would be only 3 dB, though if you have truly 4 ohm nominal speakers, you do have to focus on current, not power. So "bigger" is good, but typically it needs to be much bigger for it to be noticeably better and only if you really need that much extra juice. Otherwise, what you gain would be more like headroom that is there just in case, but you may never actually hit it.

 

[rsharp]

2) More power output for sure may help but only if your power need is close to the amp's rated output. If you have enough headroom such as 10 dB then it doesn't matter.

@PENG , when you mention 10 dB in this context, are you speaking to human perception of loudness or actual SPL levels?

Assuming this is the latter (also going to round down to 9 dB to simplify things), that means this recommended headroom translates to 2 ^ 3 or 8 times the power.

So lets say you need 10 watts at 8 Ω. A 9 dB headroom would mean you'd need 80 watts of power (which some equipment may not be capable of if you're driving multiple channels).

Does this sound about right?

 

[Oggaaaa]

I have the Cinema 50 and it works great. I'm still messing with speaker configurations and such with Audysey but so far sounds killer and was easy to set up. Denon and Marantz are basically the same company.

What made you decide for the Marantz over the Denon?