Marantz sr7012 flat bass

[Kingnoob]

Agreed. But the sub is a single 10” with a passive radiator that is -6db at 30hz. That’s according to REL, but what is reality. He said he was hoping to rock the whole house.
I don’t see that happening.....
Also, what are the speakers?

Those svs towers have duel 8s in them so if he’s not getting any bass he set something up wrong or his amp is defective...
That rel is just a overpriced brand without the spl to back it up.
Go svs or hsu ??
Monolith !!! Wooo https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24456
I’d try setting mains to 40hz ...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MattK2]

Those svs towers have duel 8s in them so if he’s not getting any bass he set something up wrong or his amp is defective...
That rel is just a overpriced brand without the spl to back it up.
Go svs or hsu ??
Monolith !!! Wooo https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24456
I’d try setting mains to 40hz ...

Thanks, but I'm not swapping anything out right now. I have the SVS towers set to 40 Hz on 2 channel mode, and 60 Hz for everything else when the sub is running.

 

[MattK2]

Revisiting this again. Wonder if anyone has discovered over the last year why the Marantz SR7012 requires all this work to sound decent without a sub. No amount of tweaking without a sub can produce a nice dynamic sound. Not trying to rattle the house here. Just want to hear the bass at times. Maybe get the woofers to move a little air. See them move a bit, which is required to get any noticeable bass at a medium volume.

Speakers are SVS Prime Towers.

I experimented with this and found the only way to get some bass out as I described, the low end of the EQ has to be maxed out and also max out the bass in the tone settings. Even then one would think when those settings are bumped all the way up, it would be way too much bass. Its not. It’s as if the settings were set to +1

In this experiment, I only had the 2 towers on. No surrounds. No Audessey.

I’m tempted to move on away from the Marantz if I can’t get it to perform without going through all the BS. It shouldn’t be this difficult to get a unit like this to perform as expected.

 

[PENG]

Revisiting this again. Wonder if anyone has discovered over the last year why the Marantz SR7012 requires all this work to sound decent without a sub. No amount of tweaking without a sub can produce a nice dynamic sound. Not trying to rattle the house here. Just want to hear the bass at times. Maybe get the woofers to move a little air. See them move a bit, which is required to get any noticeable bass at a medium volume.

Speakers are SVS Prime Towers.

I experimented with this and found the only way to get some bass out as I described, the low end of the EQ has to be maxed out and also max out the bass in the tone settings. Even then one would think when those settings are bumped all the way up, it would be way too much bass. Its not. It’s as if the settings were set to +1

In this experiment, I only had the 2 towers on. No surrounds. No Audessey.

I’m tempted to move on away from the Marantz if I can’t get it to perform without going through all the BS. It shouldn’t be this difficult to get a unit like this to perform as expected.

It's been almost two years so lots got forgotten but may be re-visit the following:

1) The prime towers have two 6.5" bass drivers and specs say 30 Hz-25 kHz +/- 3 dB so assume -3 dB at 30 Hz
2) sensitivity 87 dB/2.83V/m
3) Measured impedance was below 8 ohms in the 40-1,000 Hz range, though >6 ohms between 60-70 Hz

Based on specs, the SR7012 should be capable of driving out the bass unless you sit far from the speakers and/or you like very high spl.

Additional points, again, might have been covered two years ago:

- If you don't run and use Audyssey, the problem may be your room that has some serious cancellation resulted in major dips in the bass range.

- If you did run and use Audyssey, whatever the room gain there was might have been removed because Audyssey uses a flat target curve, so if the room was bad for the bass to begin with, Audyssey might have made it worse for you.

- Instead of working on Audyssey by using the Editor App to do some quick tweaks, you might have just turned Audyssey off.

So if the issue is the room, to solve that you can work on room treatment, use Audyssey but use the $20 App to customize the target curve to you liking (i.e. more bass in your case).

Using a different AVR is not going to help, unless you know the SR7012 is defective in some ways. If the SR7012 is working normally and you did not mess up any settings, then it has to be your room

 

[Verdinut]

It's been almost two years so lots got forgotten but may be re-visit the following:

1) The prime towers have two 6.5" bass drivers and specs say 30 Hz-25 kHz +/- 3 dB so assume -3 dB at 30 Hz
2) sensitivity 87 dB/2.83V/m
3) Measured impedance was below 8 ohms in the 40-1,000 Hz range, though >6 ohms between 60-70 Hz

Based on specs, the SR7012 should be capable of driving out the bass unless you sit far from the speakers and/or you like very high spl.

This Prime Tower speaker was reviewed in 2015 and its impedance goes down to 3 ohms at around 120 Hz and that is rather low for an AVR.

IMO, to properly drive those speakers, external amplification would be required.

SVS Prime Tower and Center Loudspeaker Review

The SVS Prime Tower and Center loudspeakers offer compact size, yet perform with homage paid to SVS’s sub roots. Our review reveals wide sweet spot, brisk dynamics and extended bass at budget pricing.

www.audioholics.com

 

[lovinthehd]

Revisiting this again. Wonder if anyone has discovered over the last year why the Marantz SR7012 requires all this work to sound decent without a sub. No amount of tweaking without a sub can produce a nice dynamic sound. Not trying to rattle the house here. Just want to hear the bass at times. Maybe get the woofers to move a little air. See them move a bit, which is required to get any noticeable bass at a medium volume.

Speakers are SVS Prime Towers.

I experimented with this and found the only way to get some bass out as I described, the low end of the EQ has to be maxed out and also max out the bass in the tone settings. Even then one would think when those settings are bumped all the way up, it would be way too much bass. Its not. It’s as if the settings were set to +1

In this experiment, I only had the 2 towers on. No surrounds. No Audessey.

I’m tempted to move on away from the Marantz if I can’t get it to perform without going through all the BS. It shouldn’t be this difficult to get a unit like this to perform as expected.

That is some exaggeration of bass you're dialing in with the tone or eq controls. Are you literally watching the woofers trying to move air? I'd tend to think it's more about your room or tastes (or expectations), but might help if you can provide some measurements of what is going on now.....

 

[TLS Guy]

That is some exaggeration of bass you're dialing in with the tone or eq controls. Are you literally watching the woofers trying to move air? I'd tend to think it's more about your room or tastes (or expectations), but might help if you can provide some measurements of what is going on now.....

Yes, I agree. Those speakers are 4ohm, but they at 3 ohm in the bass and at 200 Hz the phase angle is significantly negative.

In addition 3 db. at 30 Hz is stretching to the spec. If you look at the FR and take the customary datum between 500 and 1000 Hz, those speakers are at least 5 db. down at 30 Hz if not 6 db. In addition the turnover frequency is actually 65 Hz. So they are not deep bass speakers. With those numbers if the OP pushes any receiver hard into that load, he won't soon own it. He definitely needs an external amp for those speakers if he wants to drive them hard, or use a sub. I think at this time designers are expecting sub use with their speakers, and deigning for increased sensitivity and sacrificing low frequency extension, as you can't have both.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, I agree. Those speakers are 4ohm, but they at 3 ohm in the bass and at 200 Hz the phase angle is significantly negative.

In addition 3 db. at 30 Hz is stretching to the spec. If you look at the FR and take the customary datum between 500 and 1000 Hz, those speakers are at least 5 db. down at 30 Hz if not 6 db. In addition the turnover frequency is actually 65 Hz. So they are not deep bass speakers. With those numbers if the OP pushes any receiver hard into that load, he won't soon own it. He definitely needs an external amp for those speakers if he wants to drive them hard, or use a sub. I think at this time designers are expecting sub use with their speakers, and deigning for increased sensitivity and sacrificing low frequency extension, as you can't have both.

I'd think those speakers are decently capable of bass even with an avr.....within limits. Boosting a lot of bass isn't doing his power situation any good tho. Even getting an external power amp may not suffice depending on what he's trying to do or what he expects. A sub could be a good adddition, tho.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'd think those speakers are decently capable of bass even with an avr.....within limits. Boosting a lot of bass isn't doing his power situation any good tho. Even getting an external power amp may not suffice depending on what he's trying to do or what he expects. A sub could be a good adddition, tho.

I guess that depends on decent bass in the eye of the OP. From the impedance curve the box tuning is 48 Hz. In a ported speaker turning up the bass below tunning frequency is a waste of amp power and does not increase the bass.

One has to wonder if there is also an element of current limiting at play here to stop the receiver blowing up.

Those speakers are essentially below four ohm impedance until 350 Hz, so less than four ohms over most of the power band demand. So unless played at low volume, those speakers require a robust four ohm stable, amp and actually below that.

 

[lovinthehd]

I guess that depends on decent bass in the eye of the OP. From the impedance curve the box tuning is 48 Hz. In a ported speaker turning up the bass below tunning frequency is a waste of amp power and does not increase the bass.

One has to wonder if there is also an element of current limiting at play here to stop the receiver blowing up.

Those speakers are essentially below four ohm impedance until 350 Hz, so less than four ohms over most of the power band demand. So unless played at low volume, those speakers require a robust four ohm stable, amp and actually below that.

There are others who've used such speakers with a similar or same avr alone at fairly loud levels at fairly decent distances. Maybe your idea of low volume is actually quite high? He does sound like a candidate for an external amp somewhat but without details hard to know. AVRs just don't blow up the way you imagine, tho....altho you have an active imagination when it comes to avrs in general. We had a member who was using those speakers both with that avr (maybe a 7011?) and then upgraded amp section to a Monolith 200wpc, and found little difference in real world use and he likes both bass and loud (but used subs as well, but tried both ways).

 

[TLS Guy]

There are others who've used such speakers with a similar or same avr alone at fairly loud levels at fairly decent distances. Maybe your idea of low volume is actually quite high? He does sound like a candidate for an external amp somewhat but without details hard to know. AVRs just don't blow up the way you imagine, tho....altho you have an active imagination when it comes to avrs in general. We had a member who was using those speakers both with that avr (maybe a 7011?) and then upgraded amp section to a Monolith 200wpc, and found little difference in real world use and he likes both bass and loud (but used subs as well, but tried both ways).

To be fair, I think the older receivers did better, pre Atmos anyway. Now very few give a four ohm power rating, and Yamaha only give an 8 ohm rating now and only two channels driven. Having 9 power amps in one box is a big part of the problem. In addition with the latest up mixers, there is very significant power going to surrounds and rear backs, not so much to the ceiling speakers, but far from none. The more ambient the recoding venue the greater the load on the other speakers.

I think that you are probably right, that I would blow up an AVR pretty quickly, but I'm not going to put it to the test. I do maintain vigorously that nine power amps is way too many to connect to one power supply small enough to fit in the same case. Any way you look at it, that is bad engineering.

 

[lovinthehd]

To be fair, I think the older receivers did better, pre Atmos anyway. Now very few give a four ohm power rating, and Yamaha only give an 8 ohm rating now and only two channels driven. Having 9 power amps in one box is a big part of the problem. In addition with the latest up mixers, there is very significant power going to surrounds and rear backs, not so much to the ceiling speakers, but far from none. The more ambient the recoding venue the greater the load on the other speakers.

I think that you are probably right, that I would blow up an AVR pretty quickly, but I'm not going to put it to the test. I do maintain vigorously that nine power amps is way too many to connect to one power supply small enough to fit in the same case. Any way you look at it, that is bad engineering.

OP is talking about using just 2ch, and the tests of avrs like his with just 2ch used is usually quite decent, even into 4 ohm. The power supply for 2ch is quite decent. I can't think of any avr that rates 4 ohm use (at least under some standards). Ambient recording venues are pretty limited to type of music involved. Older avrs did have more substantial power supplies, that often went unused by their owners. If you need sufficient/more capable amps, get them....it's pretty simple. Quad wouldn't be on my list particularly.

 

[TLS Guy]

OP is talking about using just 2ch, and the tests of avrs like his with just 2ch used is usually quite decent, even into 4 ohm. The power supply for 2ch is quite decent. I can't think of any avr that rates 4 ohm use (at least under some standards). Ambient recording venues are pretty limited to type of music involved. Older avrs did have more substantial power supplies, that often went unused by their owners. If you need sufficient/more capable amps, get them....it's pretty simple. Quad wouldn't be on my list particularly.

Quad has been top of mine for 60 years. Peter's current dumping topology is pure genius. It also make the amps very easy on the electric bill.

 

[lovinthehd]

Quad has been top of mine for 60 years. Peter's current dumping topology is pure genius. It also make the amps very easy on the electric bill.

I know, was just getting ahead of it Still, not an earthshaking difference, especially if the amp simply has more power than yours.

 

[TLS Guy]

OP is talking about using just 2ch, and the tests of avrs like his with just 2ch used is usually quite decent, even into 4 ohm. The power supply for 2ch is quite decent. I can't think of any avr that rates 4 ohm use (at least under some standards). Ambient recording venues are pretty limited to type of music involved. Older avrs did have more substantial power supplies, that often went unused by their owners. If you need sufficient/more capable amps, get them....it's pretty simple. Quad wouldn't be on my list particularly.

I highly doubt the power demands of those power supplies went unused by the owners. Signals are very dynamic. While the average power may have been towards the low end, it is very unlikely the peak power was. To make reproduced sound truly effortless requires lots of power reserve.

 

[lovinthehd]

I highly doubt the power demands of those power supplies went unused by the owners. Signals are very dynamic. While the average power may have been towards the low end, it is very unlikely the peak power was. To make reproduced sound truly effortless requires lots of power reserve.

Some owners may have utilized them, but think for many the use simply never made such demands, and why they can sell so many with modest power supplies. Only a few people really take advantage of their gear in terms of performance.....

 

[TLS Guy]

I know, was just getting ahead of it Still, not an earthshaking difference, especially if the amp simply has more power than yours.

Don't worry, I have plenty of power!

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't worry, I have plenty of power!

For your purposes perhaps....

 

[lovinthehd]

My mind keeps going back to the concept of "flat" bass for @MattK2 since he deliberately adds eq but provides no measurement info.....

 

[TLS Guy]

For your purposes perhaps....

For anyone's in a home situation. 3,100 watts all 11 channels driven. Don't think I ever have used all that, but it is there just in case!