Center channel issues

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bstan

Audioholic Intern
Update: finally home and digging through functions when I came across this....

Center channel spread. Turned it OFF. So much better!
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
The sub is an older B&W ASW600 which I'm also using as a placeholder until I can upgrade. I'll include a picture. Center is higher than desirable but can't be avoided. I have the rear slightly elevated to point tweeter down. Speakers are all set to small and crossed at 80Hz.View attachment 58412
If I had a decent center I'd offer to swap it for your dog.

I my experience the height of the center isn't that much of an issue by itself, but it helps to get it angled so it is "aimed" directly at your head when seated. Having said that, I'd be surprised if that's the primary issue in your case.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Update: finally home and digging through functions when I came across this....

Center channel spread. Turned it OFF. So much better!
Glad you found that. Yes, center spread is really bad news. Gene, our leader seems to really like it, I really don't know why. It was left off later units like my AVP, but then due to public pressure, it was out back on in a firmware update. However you are correct, it is a quality spoiler and in my view Dolby were right not to put it in their latest upmixer and should have stood their ground not to put it back.

You should try your rig without Audyssey Eq, to get a base line on your system, as everyone should. There is every chance a lot of systems, if not most will be better without it.
 
B

bstan

Audioholic Intern
Glad you found that. Yes, center spread is really bad news. Gene, our leader seems to really like it, I really don't know why. It was left off later units like my AVP, but then due to public pressure, it was out back on in a firmware update. However you are correct, it is a quality spoiler and in my view Dolby were right not to put it in their latest upmixer and should have stood their ground not to put it back.

You should try your rig without Audyssey Eq, to get a base line on your system, as everyone should. There is every chance a lot of systems, if not most will be better without it.
Reading just a little about it, people seem to like it for music more than movies, assuming there're not listening to 2 channel stereo, I guess. I'll have to experiment with it since so many people seem to like it, but for TV/movies it will remain OFF.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
Reading just a little about it, people seem to like it for music more than movies, assuming there're not listening to 2 channel stereo, I guess. I'll have to experiment with it since so many people seem to like it, but for TV/movies it will remain OFF.
When playing two channel music in Dolby Surround, or in one of the Pro logic iterations in older models, vocals can be too center focused as they are processed. This sounds strange compared to the two channel presentation. Center Spread simply, well, spreads the vocal out evenly across the front stage and the surround channels handle other musical sounds. It really shouldn't be used for anything other than two channel music with vocals. Though, there are some bad multichannel music mixes that can benefit from it as well as the vocals are center focused in the remix. Different receivers will have different limitations with Center Spread as some aren't allowed to apply Center Spread to an Atmos track.

The Denon S760H is underrated and is a very capable little receiver. I almost kept mine but HEOS didn't do it for me. I agree about the crossover settings. I'd set them at 100Hz or 120Hz for all channels as well with the sub LPF of LFE set at 120Hz. You might try the sub's gain knob at 50% and definitely set the Crossover knob at MAX(180Hz) so it does not interfere with the receiver's setting. It looks like room is an issue, but if you can raise the speakers and or stands, blocks perhaps, to clear the couch and move each away from the fireplace about a foot and turn them in just slightly, I think your center channel output will benefit from the increased distance from the fronts. Many run out and spend more money on power when they could have spent just a little time improving speaker placement and tinkering with settings to improve the sound altogether. Nice room by the way and good dog. Enjoy your setup!
 
B

bstan

Audioholic Intern
When playing two channel music in Dolby Surround, or in one of the Pro logic iterations in older models, vocals can be too center focused as they are processed. This sounds strange compared to the two channel presentation. Center Spread simply, well, spreads the vocal out evenly across the front stage and the surround channels handle other musical sounds. It really shouldn't be used for anything other than two channel music with vocals. Though, there are some bad multichannel music mixes that can benefit from it as well as the vocals are center focused in the remix. Different receivers will have different limitations with Center Spread as some aren't allowed to apply Center Spread to an Atmos track.

The Denon S760H is underrated and is a very capable little receiver. I almost kept mine but HEOS didn't do it for me. I agree about the crossover settings. I'd set them at 100Hz or 120Hz for all channels as well with the sub LPF of LFE set at 120Hz. You might try the sub's gain knob at 50% and definitely set the Crossover knob at MAX(180Hz) so it does not interfere with the receiver's setting. It looks like room is an issue, but if you can raise the speakers and or stands, blocks perhaps, to clear the couch and move each away from the fireplace about a foot and turn them in just slightly, I think your center channel output will benefit from the increased distance from the fronts. Many run out and spend more money on power when they could have spent just a little time improving speaker placement and tinkering with settings to improve the sound altogether. Nice room by the way and good dog. Enjoy your setup!
Thanks for the thorough feedback. I saw a similar explanation of the center spread function...makes sense. I listen in stereo when I'm sitting, but do like the effect of multi-channel stereo when I'm just doing things around the house. I'll adjust the crossovers and sub as you said and see what works best. Regarding the speaker placement, putting them up on blocks will never pass the WAF, and not sure I would want to do that since the speaker tweeter height is perfectly positioned at ear level for listening. But what I might be able to do is slide the couch over a little to give the right speaker a little "breathing room". About the Denon...I hadn't bought a receiver in many years, never owned a Denon, so when I saw this at Costco last year I thought I'd give it a try. Seems to be doing the job so far. I didn't realize Jurgen (pup) was in the pic until someone else commented. He gets into everything, including pictures apparently! Thanks again.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Reading just a little about it, people seem to like it for music more than movies, assuming there're not listening to 2 channel stereo, I guess. I'll have to experiment with it since so many people seem to like it, but for TV/movies it will remain OFF.
Actually in my years of this subject, more seem to use/prefer it (various Audyssey settings) for tv/movies than music. Dynamic EQ also has an associated setting called Reference Level Offset, have you tried combinations of that? For vocals some even like DynVolume light settings.....
 
B

bstan

Audioholic Intern
Actually in my years of this subject, more seem to use/prefer it (various Audyssey settings) for tv/movies than music. Dynamic EQ also has an associated setting called Reference Level Offset, have you tried combinations of that? For vocals some even like DynVolume light settings.....
Yes, after trying the DynamicEq on and off, I felt it was better off (I believe the Audessey calibration turned it on), and playing the DynVolume settings was one of the first things I tried when I had this problem, but I thought it made things worse. Turning off all these setting made the voices much more natural sounding, and turning off the center spread allowed the voices to be much more focused. The changes we've made so far have improved the sound significantly already. Left to do is to check to see if other settings still need changing, to optimize crossovers/base management, speaker placement/room acoustics, etc. But I'm very satisfied right now so any improvement from here will be cherry on top. Thanks!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, after trying the DynamicEq on and off, I felt it was better off (I believe the Audessey calibration turned it on), and playing the DynVolume settings was one of the first things I tried when I had this problem, but I thought it made things worse. Turning off all these setting made the voices much more natural sounding, and turning off the center spread allowed the voices to be much more focused. The changes we've made so far have improved the sound significantly already. Left to do is to check to see if other settings still need changing, to optimize crossovers/base management, speaker placement/room acoustics, etc. But I'm very satisfied right now so any improvement from here will be cherry on top. Thanks!
In the end it's all preference. I use DynEQ at lower volumes myself, and will change RLO for music or some tv sources. Never cared for DynVol myself. Generally I'd start with setup/room before even running Audyssey, tho. What are you doing for bass management/crossovers?
 
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