Speaker driver orientations in relation to room size and acoustics

[Jambarino]

As the title suggests I am currently looking into the pros and cons of how a speakers driver orientation relates to response in room,and how a specific orientation might be beneficial for acoustics in smaller rooms with low ceilings.Like for instance,would a 2 way MTM placed vertically be better vs say a 2.5 way TMM or a 3 way TMWW or MTMW?

 

[ryanosaur]

A major part will be determined by the size of the drivers and their spacing... Something like the big Klipsch Speakers with 2 8" drivers and a big horn loaded tweeter are designed to be listened to at somewhere between 2-3 meters at the closest.
Beyond that, I have 3-way towers in an 11x15' room where I sit about 7-8' away and they perform delightfully.

Overall, I think more focus should be placed on the room the Speaker will be in rather than the placement of the Drivers on the Baffle.

 

[lovinthehd]

A major part will be determined by the size of the drivers and their spacing... Something like the big Klipsch Speakers with 28" drivers and a big horn loaded tweeter are designed to be listened to at somewhere between 2-3 meters at the closest.
Beyond that, I have 3-way towers in an 11x15' room where I sit about 7-8' away and they perform delightfully.

Overall, I think more focus should be placed on the room the Speaker will be in rather than the placement of the Drivers on the Baffle.

I'd like to see that 28" Klipsch driver....was that the superklipschorn?

 

[TLS Guy]

As the title suggests I am currently looking into the pros and cons of how a speakers driver orientation relates to response in room,and how a specific orientation might be beneficial for acoustics in smaller rooms with low ceilings.Like for instance,would a 2 way MTM placed vertically be better vs say a 2.5 way TMM or a 3 way TMWW or MTMW?

In a small room with low ceilings a two way MTM would limit vertical dispersion, which would incur some advantage, but that would not be the sole reason for choosing one. If you like the speaker in other aspects, then go for it.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'd like to see that 28" Klipsch driver....was that the superklipschorn?

fixed.

 

[lovinthehd]

Dang I really wanted to see that corner monster!

 

[lovinthehd]

As the title suggests I am currently looking into the pros and cons of how a speakers driver orientation relates to response in room,and how a specific orientation might be beneficial for acoustics in smaller rooms with low ceilings.Like for instance,would a 2 way MTM placed vertically be better vs say a 2.5 way TMM or a 3 way TMWW or MTMW?

Why are you so focused on driver on baffle arrangements? I'd be more concerned with driver sizes and not a lot of consideration for an mtm at all.

 

[TLS Guy]

Why are you so focused on driver on baffle arrangements? I'd be more concerned with driver sizes and not a lot of consideration for an mtm at all.

I have come to the conclusion that MTM layouts and coaxial designs do confer worthwhile benefits. After years of doing this I have to agree with Joe D'Appolito on this. I don't think it is exclusionary, but it is now my preferred arrangement.

 

[ryanosaur]

Dang I really wanted to see that corner monster!

Didn't you here about that one? I think @shadyJ was trying to get the RP28000-FU up on his testing rig...
As I hear, he managed to get the Speaker up but misjudged the center of gravity slightly...
Emergency doctors are trying a cutting edge experimental treatment as we speak...

This is the premise for their revolutionary treatment:

 

[lovinthehd]

I have come to the conclusion that MTM layouts and coaxial designs do confer worthwhile benefits. After years of doing this I have to agree with Joe D'Appolito on this. I don't think it is exclusionary, but it is now my preferred arrangement.

In what applications particularly? Generally for all mains/surrounds? Irregardless of particular design/application commercially available? With your design chops, is a different thing IMO. I've nothing against the mtm in a general sense, have used some for surrounds particularly..... but not as mains.

 

[TLS Guy]

In what applications particularly? Generally for all mains/surrounds? Irregardless of particular design/application commercially available? With your design chops, is a different thing IMO. I've nothing against the mtm in a general sense, have used some for surrounds particularly..... but not as mains.

Any applications. The arrangement limits vertical dispersion and minimizes troublesome floor and ceiling reflections, especially the floor, and they have excellent horizontal dispersion as a rule.

To the designer they have one big advantage as they are agnostic in terms of crossover order. Odd order crossovers tilt the axis. Now in the MTM even if you use an odd order crossover then the tilt is neutralized, as the top driver has a down tilt and the lower an upward one so the tilt is cancelled. This avoids sloping baffles and tilted speakers. So the MTM arrangement gives the designer the freedom to select optimum orders for the drivers he is working with, without having to worry about tilt of the acoustic axis. Sometimes though the tilt is useful, as the array in my back speakers is relatively tall and so the 15 degree downward tilt of the first order crossovers, can be used to advantage.

 

[Swerd]

In addition to what TLS Guy said about tilted axes above, MTM speakers provide the obvious advantage of using two mid-woofers instead of one.

Two mid-woofers (in a 2-way speaker design) can produce greater volume with less distortion than a single mid-woofer can. To produce as much volume, a single mid-woofer must travel further, leading to greater distortion. Two mid-woofers will not provide deeper bass than one similar driver will, but they will be louder and cleaner sounding.

An MTM also allows using smaller diameter mid-woofers that perform well at higher frequencies than a single larger diameter woofer. This allows crossing over to a tweeter at higher frequency, and provides better dispersion near the crossover frequency.

 

[lovinthehd]

What are the best commercially available mtm speakers with those comments in mind?

 

[Swerd]

What are the best commercially available mtm speakers with those comments in mind?

Salk makes a number of MTM floor standing speakers, the SongTower, SongTower II, the Veracity HT2-TL, Veracity ST, among others.

I owned the SongTower for nearly 10 years, and now have the Veracity ST.

 

[TLS Guy]

In addition to what TLS Guy said about tilted axes above, MTM speakers provide the obvious advantage of using two mid-woofers instead of one.

You get greater volume while avoiding greater distortion due to the displacement required of a single driver. Two mid-woofers will not provide deeper bass than one similar driver will, but they will be louder and cleaner sounding.

An MTM also allows using smaller diameter mid-woofers that perform well at higher frequencies than a single larger diameter woofer. This allows crossing over to a tweeter at higher frequency, and provides better dispersion near the crossover frequency.

If you are talking single drivers, yes. However, we are now getting into the power handling arena, and the issue I have brought up for years, about where the power actually is. Everyone thinks its in the sub range when it isn't. It is the upper, mid bass, and the midrange below around 3.5K. I am astounded as to how many professional designers get this wrong. The power is especially required below the transition frequency. Of course the two drivers in MTM in either mid bass, or as midrange drivers, really helps the power handling in this range.

Unless it is a small bookshelf, then two drivers in this range are required. However a 2.5 way can be a good design, and there are plenty of them. However, I do think a well designed MTM does have some advantages, unless you are prone to listening to your speakers from the standing position, or want a downward tilt for say a surround speaker say.

I think many commercial three way systems are a problem. There are precious few midranges that really have adequate power handling for the job, very few. So in a three way, two mids in MTM, I think should be the rule. I recognize that the commercial designer has a bean counter at his elbow. He told the speaker can not cost more the x.