Audiophile Cable Synergy: Real or Snake Oil?

[highfigh]

Who is Rodger Russel? I don't get out much, and only read the "Globe" once a year. I quit all TV shows after Marlin Perkins gave up the ghost.

If Mr. Russel is on the side of cable is cable, SAVE IT, if it's for my benefit. I do appreciate the offer though.

A family FULL of Union electrician/welders, mechanic/welders, operators, welders, pipefitters and cops. They ALL learned about cables, everything matters.
Routing cables is 90% of all noise, yet 90% of the people that use cables DON'T route them correctly. Next POWER. 120vac on the button. Keep it there.
Protect your expensive gear. PERIOD! Use fast acting surge protection and maintain 120vac.

Vintage gear I always use a Variac. 110vac MAX.

I really like the part about "do cables matter"? With 90% replying NO!
I guess there is a lot of wireless, ay? Just askin'.

I like Rolls-Royce, and Farm Girl as a chauffeur. Not everyone agrees.

I prefer to stay out of trouble vs get out of trouble. I really don't care for crisis management at 67 either.
Left lung don't fail me now.. LOL Toot Toot!

When Perkins gave up the ghost, or became one?

I can't think of many people in those trades who understand low voltage signals, or even gave a rat's butt about them. They all work with cables that need to do heavy work (high current and voltage), not minute signal levels that need to be amplified in order to do what's needed. I have known and worked with/around many electricians- resi, commercial/industrial, etc- almost none had any ideas about why they shouldn't run their Romex through the same stud holes as my AV/network cabling and one said "I wish this was 25 years ago". When I asked why, he said "Because I wouldn't have to deal with this low voltage crap" in response to my complaints about where he had run his Romex and about using MY holes & pull cord for his wiring when I wasn't there, just because he was lazy and opportunistic.

Still trying to figure out what a cop has to do with this, but.....

OK, what defines 'vintage'? 1970s? 1960s? 1950s? I have a guitar amp that was made in 1958 and the schematic clearly shows that the line voltage is 117VAC- why would I want to use 110VAC with that? It's not as if the OEM electrolytics are still in it. I had another guitar amp that was made in the late-1930s; after the 'lytics were replaced, I always operated it on the line voltage and it always sounded great- never had a problem.

I have no problem with Farm Girl.

 

[witchdoctor]

That's BS- the main reason wireless sensors exist is so no cable needs to be installed and that costs far more than peeling off the protective strip from the double-stick tape on the back. This lowers the system cost, people see "I can get a whole alarm system for $50? Sign me up!" and doing it the right way ends. Read the tag line under my posts- "WiFi is for convenience, wired is for performance". When people add a lot of wireless crap to their homes, the performance HAS to suffer- it's similar to being in a room full of people with everyone talking to you at the same time, all competing for your attention.

Interference on wires and cables can be filtered out pretty easily and that happens in the power supply of everything. These devices are also designed with some large areas of their circuit boards that are copper plated- this is called the 'ground plane' and it helps to shield some components and act as an antenna for the noise, sending it to the electrical neutral, which is then grounded at the breaker panel or possibly internally. That means the interference goes away and doesn't affect the circuits. Also, metal cases are used to reduce the signal level of the interference. Once it enters through the power wires, it passes through the power supply and is filtered out in/after rectification.

No wonder you had to leave sales, no one would buy anything from you, especially not this rant.
Please don't disparage the audio industry as a whole because your career in it didn't work out. Nearly all of the vendors online today have money back return policies. Yes, there are a FEW bad apples but my experience with vendors (both online and in a store) has been very good. You do acknowledge that cables and wires have interference, that's good.

 

[witchdoctor]

I wish you would just shut up with all your talk of bad manners. Maybe you've never outright called anyone an audiophool or a liar, but you have heavily implied what you think and that's just as bad if not worse. At least I'm being upfront about what I think instead of veiling it in the pretense of being "well mannered".

Calling people out on BS beliefs is not bad manners.



This is where you're wrong, dead wrong. With outrageous claims (an astonishing SQ improvement!) comes the need for actual, verifiable proof, especially when you try to tell people that they can't hear it because of x, y, and z reasons. Why? Because you will get people coming into the hobby who will see these claims and think "wow, I should get that power cord" and they will then think something is wrong with them or their equipment if they don't hear this "astonishing difference" when in actuality there is no difference to begin with and they could have gotten better results through other means.

Rant rant rant, please post your proof, I, NINaudio, am the ultimate arbiter of what works. OHMisback is right, no one needs to use bad manners here. You are posting one dumb thing after another. I gotta put the block on you now, good luck with your audio whatever.

 

[panteragstk]

Threads like this really are a waste of time.

People coming in here trying to convince us that cables make a difference is like a flat earther going to an astronomy forum to convince them the earth is flat.

No matter what you say, you're incorrect and continuing to argue your "point" doesn't help. We aren't going to believe you because we believe facts and science, not wishes and feelings.

 

[Mikado463]

People coming in here trying to convince us that cables make a difference

The truth is they can in fact be made so as to 'be different' but I think it's fair to say the majority here understand and embrace the science so as not to be misled.

 

[panteragstk]

The truth is they can in fact be made so as to 'be different' but I think it's fair to say the majority here understand and embrace the science so as not to be misled.

That's different and intentionally coloring the sound. If that's going on, then this argument is even more moot because you can 100% measure a change like that.

 

[Trell]

The truth is they can in fact be made so as to 'be different' but I think it's fair to say the majority here understand and embrace the science so as not to be misled.

Of course, using a cable not fit for purpose will have an effect, but none here argued that as I recall. The effect can be measured, though. Same for cables with intentional coloring.

 

[Mikado463]

That's different and intentionally coloring the sound. If that's going on, then this argument is even more moot because you can 100% measure a change like that.

exactly, like when MIT adds those 'boxes' into their cables. At that point they become a network device, no longer 'just' a cable

 

[Trell]

exactly, like when MIT adds those 'boxes' into their cables. At that point they become a network device, no longer 'just' a cable

Come on, you know very well that’s not we’re saying.

 

[Mikado463]

Come on, you know very well that’s not we’re saying.

WTF are you trying to say ??

 

[Trell]

WTF are you trying to say ??

That you completely missed @panteragstk point in his post.

 

[panteragstk]

exactly, like when MIT adds those 'boxes' into their cables. At that point they become a network device, no longer 'just' a cable

Yes, but that's something else really.

 

[Trell]

Yes, but that's something else really.

Yet here he is stating the obvious that none of us claimed in the first place, not even the magic cable acolytes did so. Especially not them.

 

[OHMisback]

I can't think of many people in those trades who understand low voltage signals, or even gave a rat's butt about them. They all work with cables that need to do heavy work (high current and voltage), not minute signal levels that need to be amplified in order to do what's needed. I have known and worked with/around many electricians- resi, commercial/industrial, etc- almost none had any ideas about why they shouldn't run their Romex through the same stud holes as my AV/network cabling and one said "I wish this was 25 years ago". When I asked why, he said "Because I wouldn't have to deal with this low voltage crap" in response to my complaints about where he had run his Romex and about using MY holes & pull cord for his wiring when I wasn't there, just because he was lazy and opportunistic.

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Ok lets catch you up. Low voltage electricians joined the union rank and file over 10 years ago in Northern CA. They, like all trades have better
and more educated members. Some it's a job, some it's a life long passion. The people I mentioned are all professional Union members.
They were all apprenticed, by Union members and required to complete all their training. That is for the basics. ALL of the people I mentioned
were close to or top in their fields. My big brother (a fine man) was the BA for the local in Martinez CA for many years. His sons and grandsons
are now OTJ. My nephew is based out of Sac. He brings online huge switching station for a few of our favorite providers. AT&T, Google, and GE providers.
He not only oversees the installation and integration of low and high voltage it has to be QUIET.

My SIL is an electrician also, he is mainly solar, the whole 9 yards, from mobile solar/gen sets, commercial and residential installs. A few of his
customers are full blown 200K audio buffs.

They are trained electricians, COPS, pipefitters, welders, mechanic/welders. There is a retired finish carpenter in the bunch too. The point is all the
music lovers (and there is a few) are not just good at what they do, we all worked together through the years building our homes and learning and
sharing our trades. ALL of them know how to set up a great sounding room

The point you worked with a BARNY and you measure your experience to that standard. I gave up on Barnies within the first 3 month, after my first
five years of training mechanics. no passion, No TRAINING! GOOD BY

So your experience with your local electrician may have been a little less than what you can expect today from a UNION trained electrician.

The right guy for the job helps. Besides you hired the guy, tell him, ya lazy f___, do it right or hit the road. Limp noodle kids today. LOL

 

[OHMisback]

I wish you would just shut up with all your talk of bad manners. Maybe you've never outright called anyone an audiophool or a liar, but you have heavily implied what you think and that's just as bad if not worse. At least I'm being upfront about what I think instead of veiling it in the pretense of being "well mannered".

Calling people out on BS beliefs is not bad manners.



This is where you're wrong, dead wrong. With outrageous claims (an astonishing SQ improvement!) comes the need for actual, verifiable proof, especially when you try to tell people that they can't hear it because of x, y, and z reasons. Why? Because you will get people coming into the hobby who will see these claims and think "wow, I should get that power cord" and they will then think something is wrong with them or their equipment if they don't hear this "astonishing difference" when in actuality there is no difference to begin with and they could have gotten better results through other means.

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The bad manners part is simple to understand, it's not BS but saying it is when you simply say it is, is VERY RUDE. I'm sorry you can't hear. Understanding seems to be
an issue also. A little slow or just hardheaded. It's your head, if stuff sinks in good for you. Pretty thick at this point.. LOL

If you listened you get to comment on what HIS/THEIR or I heard. No one said they measured or did a blind test. They actually teach sound techs how to identify what is causing the issue vis listening. There is ZERO measuring. It is pure experience. Timbre as I understand it, can't be measured. Fidelity on the other hand some parts can be THD, IMD, SPL, and if you have STDs.

You keep comparing apples to oranges.

You keep talking about sound, the mechanical side. (HT)

I keep referring to music and how IT sounds.

They are NOT the same thing and the two kinds of systems can't be great at both. Good maybe..

 

[NINaudio]

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A little slow or just hardheaded. It's your head, if stuff sinks in good for you. Pretty thick at this point.. LOL

Such good manners you have. I should take lessons.

 

[lovinthehd]

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The bad manners part is simple to understand, it's not BS but saying it is when you simply say it is, is VERY RUDE. I'm sorry you can't hear. Understanding seems to be
an issue also. A little slow or just hardheaded. It's your head, if stuff sinks in good for you. Pretty thick at this point.. LOL

If you listened you get to comment on what HIS/THEIR or I heard. No one said they measured or did a blind test. They actually teach sound techs how to identify what is causing the issue vis listening. There is ZERO measuring. It is pure experience. Timbre as I understand it, can't be measured. Fidelity on the other hand some parts can be THD, IMD, SPL, and if you have STDs.

You keep comparing apples to oranges.

You keep talking about sound, the mechanical side. (HT)

I keep referring to music and how IT sounds.

They are NOT the same thing and the two kinds of systems can't be great at both. Good maybe..

It is even ruder to come into a forum where your views on cables particularly are not accepted and spread them around like the manure it is....f*ck you and your manners.

 

[OHMisback]

I'll say this, at least it got your attention. That doesn't go for everyone. 99% of the people on this site are fine.
It's the .5% that love to argue with the ol, you, no you, no you, no you. The other .5% seem to have a substance abuse issue. LOL
None of that bunch will ever get anything useful from a guy like me.

It's easy to catch my attention with wit and wonder. Down right stupid will too.

The whole issue of you saying others ability to HEAR a difference in cables or gear or speakers or what ever are "BS" and they are "phools".
You missed the whole point. You are the one saying others are somehow deficient in some way, when you openly admit YOU purchasing equipment by spec.
Then back it up by proclaiming if you can't measure it, it doesn't exist.

I explained my position several times you offer "I can't hear it" and someone said "you can't measure it".

SOUND

MUSIC

They are two different things. Two different systems.

Here is the alternate answer.

OK YOU WIN! You're a very helpful person, thanks for the wonderful conversation and life changing advise.

I'll go rip the 10-12 systems out set them on the corner, run down and buy what ever you recommend. Go ahead, I'm hanging on your every word.
I'll pile the cables right beside them, generator, solar and battery BU too. The Rodney Dangerfield LP will be bubble wrapped "No Respect"

Are you a Death row Chaplin? I suspect in this or at least another life you might have been. Maybe you were just a nun with a ruler, same thing.

Party Pooper

 

[lovinthehd]

I'll say this, at least it got your attention. That doesn't go for everyone. 99% of the people on this site are fine.
It's the .5% that love to argue with the ol, you, no you, no you, no you. The other .5% seem to have a substance abuse issue. LOL
None of that bunch will ever get anything useful from a guy like me.

It's easy to catch my attention with wit and wonder. Down right stupid does too.

The whole issue is you're saying others ability to HEAR a difference in cables or gear or speakers or what ever are "BS" and they are "phools".
You missed the whole point. You are the one saying others are somehow deficient in some way, when you openly admit YOU purchasing equipment by spec.
Then back it up by proclaiming if you can't measure it, it doesn't exist.

I explained my position several times you offer "I can't hear it" and someone said "you can't measure it".

OK YOU WIN! You're a very helpful person, thanks for the wonderful conversation and life changing advise.

I'll go rip the 10-12 systems out set them on the corner, run down and buy what ever you recommend. Go ahead, I'm hanging on you every word.
I'll pile the cables right beside them, generator, solar and battery BU too. The Rodney Dangerfield LP will be bubble wrapped "No Respect"

Are you a Death row Chaplin? I suspect in this or at least another life you might have been. Maybe you were just a nun with a ruler, same thing.

Party Pooper

Nice word salad.

 

[witchdoctor]

You say you want "proof", you can't handle the "proof". I posted a an objective video with testing, I posted a subjective video of a blind listening test. I posted white papers that show how cables can act as antennas or filters. I even posted testimonials from world class musicians that raved how their power cords were chosen with great care and are a critical component to making and recording music. At the end of the day if you still like lamp cord, go for it.