Audiophile Cable Synergy: Real or Snake Oil?

[witchdoctor]

Even better that the "sources" that are posted are from people known to spread BS in the audio community.

"Hey guys, why don't you believe my non-scientific sources that prove my point for me and offer zero proof of their claims? You just gonna believe industry experts and people that do actual lab research? Crazy talk."

I feel like I've seen this logic somewhere before...

Dude, do you realize that your post is an unscientific source as you just described and you want readers to believe that you are an expert? "Once upon a time I was in audio sales" Good luck with that.

 

[witchdoctor]

Does your neighbors system sound better than yours? I’m sure It does just by seeing the price difference in cables. The neighbor went for Synergy.

His system sounds better but mines louder so guess who gets the last laugh.. HA HA HA!

 

[witchdoctor]

I got a dumb and a disagree from those two so I guess I hit the nail right on the head.

Uhhh that we disagree with dumb "audio samurai's" (your AKA right?), OK you got me on that one.

 

[witchdoctor]

No it's the fact you called someone you know nothing about "cable loving trolls". Nothing else. I'm not calling you
and ignorant F___ for not agreeing with me that YOU are probably deaf or the fact your system probably can't show
a difference in cables.

I'm a Salk Song 3 fan actually. 86% sensitivity and an AVR, you're NOT going to need anything fancy that's, for sure.
I thought they used an AC G3 ribbon tweeter. I've use all the AC tweeters products in one application or another. I think it's the best
tweeter you can get for the money and they have replacement ribbon for some, that doesn't require a degree in diaphragm
replacement from UCLA to do it. Some planars tensioning the membrane is a PITA.

It's not to often I sample cables on an AVR. I do use a couple of HT preamps with different power amps. Mcintosh MX45, MX120, 121, 122. The C45 and MX120 has the
best stereo and 3 channel analog. An external phono section can be picky about cables with an HT preamp,. You still need QUIET RCA TT cables.
I did replace the 10 year old CAT 5 with Super 8 (I think). That was a wonderful increase in performance, DL/UL. I paid 16 and 22.00 USD. The connections are VERY nice, heavy insulation, shielding and a flat ribbon design. 15 and 25' runs.

I still go back to an analog valve system to listen to cables. Mcintosh C20, MC225/240 and QSO 808s 90% at 8 ohms sensitivity.
or
Cary SLP-05, V12Rs and RM30 monitors. 92% at 11 ohms (just the monitor section).
They uncover a world of differences in cables.

It's things, I've done forever, why change, IF I'm having success and I'M happy. Who cares what people think or say as long as it's not PERSONALLY insulting others.

As for cables, just like everything else, "everything matters". It just doesn't have to cost a fortune to use great cables. I've used 20K speaker cables. (I didn't pay for them.)
I've used 500.00 LOOMS, that I've made that I liked better. Maybe not quite as pretty but better as far as what I like in speaker cable construction.

Nothing ADDED, nothing removed = great cables.

I am thinking of getting a Mac MB50 streamer for my front end, thoughts? I can get one for around $1500. My current streamer is a Bluesound Node and I use DTS Play-Fi that the MB50 uses in other components all around the house.

 

[NINaudio]

Uhhh that we disagree with dumb "audio samurai's" (your AKA right?), OK you got me on that one.

You realize that the "audio samurai" saying under my name is a forum feature, right? I have no control over it.

I love when people who believe in cable magic think I'm the dumb one.

 

[witchdoctor]

You realize that the "audio samurai" saying under my name is a forum feature, right? I have no control over it.

I love when people who believe in cable magic think I'm the dumb one.

Uhhh, so you admit you love I think you are dumb, OK, I'm good with that.

 

[OHMisback]

Hell, just look at the poll, only 2 other people agree with you and the other guy that cable synergy exists.

Since when does anyone's personal experience or the LACK of it account for SQ. I see just the opposite. I see individuals
that finally have the equipment and knowledge to build a better system, just through selection. It doesn't cost anymore
money. It doesn't have to be expensive, it has to work with what you have.

Synergy was the question and does it exits? I KNOW it does. YOU know it doesn't!

I just wish I had A C20 or a SLP-05 and a Cary V12r (s) to loan you. It would tell me a lot about your hearing. A driver with a high sensitivity
low mass, mids/highs, (small planars or ribbons) and a 1st/ 2nd order XO so you hear cable differences. I'm old, my ears
are ok at best. Most youngsters who have been trained and taken care of their ears on the other hand, get pretty good at cable sniffing.

I personally don't care what other people use if it does what they like. Not all cables and gear are created equal. I know the condition of your
ears BEFORE they get old and damaged help later in life even after you loose the ability to hear well. EAR memory along with your ability to
FEEL, go hand in hand, much like smell and taste. Welding is sight and hearing. You can hear when its to hot or to cold. It sounds perfect
for a great visual weld. Under water the sound thing not so much.. LOL

Like the friend that calls you (after 20 years of not hearing from them). YOU know exactly who it is. Like someone moving a speaker, you
know something is wrong.

You have to be able to tell the difference in what you hear and confirm it with measurements. As time goes on you should get better and better. If you don't
stick with measurements ONLY. I let the wife fiddle with the tone controls. I know it was semi-flat 10 years ago. That's good enough now. .

Time to check on my chickens, come on dog.

Party Poopers!

 

[highfigh]

Ideally, both. But it depends on the person. For example, I believe the good sound isn't completely predicated on a perfectly flat in-room measurement. Given the time and opportunity, I might play around with that someday just to see what minor placement tweaks could be made... but...

More to the point:

I agree. That's why I added the part obout the subjectivist viewpoint. It's too easy to trick oneself into thinking you hear something different. And to trick others into the same thing.
We all should well know that you shouldn't chase electronics or cables as a means to tune your rig: this is a fool's errand.
I guess, certainly, if you enjoy the sound and effect of tubes... have at it, but then you can't really pretend your system is operating in a linear or accurate fashion. But specialty cables or Amps that aren't verified by measurements... believing the terms like warm or transparent without seeing a corresponding measurement that somehow details a bump in mid-bass FR or whatever matches ones sonic preferences...
You see where I'm going with this.
So yes, people spout BS, companies market BS... and sadly people spend money on it as we know all too well.

When I commented about spouting BS, it was because, while I am on the side of "It sounds good, to me", the lack of understanding what may/may not be happening in believing that some things make an improvement and the way they're advertised/sold is where I have problems- people are pre-sold on the idea that something will make it sound better and in some cases, they want to be part of the crowd who does hear what was presented as 'fact'.

 

[panteragstk]

You say you were in the business. The business of selling what type of equipment? I don't want to leave you or ME red faced. What kind of equipment
did you sell and what did you offer with the equipment you sold? 1970s or 2020. When?

Audiophool? A good salesman gives a customer what they need first and what they WANT second. Unless they like returns with the wife and three kids in TOW.
Then you have audio-fun with the WIFE screaming at YOU. Options without prices and a sour look goes a lot further. You don't sell a guy 5K of cable looms with
a 250lb wife who is muggin' you either. Get KOed or tased that way. That would make the salesman a phool, maybe.

If they come in looking for "a product", ASK them "do you have any questions on the return policy or any question before the purchase?"
Sell them the product and thank them.

If anyone thinks that is selling someone something, they are WRONG. The person came in to buy that product. Be a good salesman.
It would be like women underwear, what do I know? Enough, but not to much.

I specifically sold home audio and told my customers the overpriced cables we sold were indeed overpriced. I won't lie to customers.

 

[panteragstk]

Dude, do you realize that your post is an unscientific source as you just described and you want readers to believe that you are an expert? "Once upon a time I was in audio sales" Good luck with that.

I'm not trying to convince you that magic cables are worth the money. I'm telling you its a waste of time unless you have better sources.

 

[Trell]

I'm not trying to convince you that magic cables are worth the money. I'm telling you its a waste of time unless you have better sources.

You're to kind: It's a waste of time even if you've better sources.

 

[Replicant 7]

@witchdoctor @OHMisback

Oh look!! Who knew that Copper speaker wire was absolutely that good and that cheap.

Oh look!
If all one had at the time to use, till your 12 AWG speaker wire came in say from a online order, yep will work fine. And No Battery needed at the end of the wire to excite the electrons.

 

[OHMisback]

100% copper? That is a first. I truly hope it works well for you. It doesn't exist, but then 12 AWG of ATMOSPHERE inside a PVC tube
should be an eye opener.

Do you have any idea how many types of copper there are? I don't. I'll guess and say there are a FEW different types at LEAST.

I guess YOU use the types that uses LARGE letter and in color.

As for copper extension cable, they work as well as any off the spool PVC/Vinyl .999 OFC copper. The color may vary, other than that,
OFC is good copper for most application. It's usually SC, stranded and both can be tinned.
The tube/dielectric and size is the deal breaker.

In most AV and HT applications the fact that zero return happens at a fairly low point in cables, makes a choices pretty simple.

The same is true for picky equipment, go ahead use extension cord (cable). You're the one that has to listen to it, not me.

For movies and HT "who cares", seems to be the general consensus from quite a few, go with that. Whatever makes your pickle squirt.
Birds of a feather, after all.

Regards

 

[lovinthehd]

100% copper? That is a first. I truly hope it works well for you. It doesn't exist, but then 12 AWG of ATMOSPHERE inside a PVC tube
should be an eye opener.

Do you have any idea how many types of copper there are? I don't. I'll guess and say there are a FEW different types at LEAST.

I guess YOU use the types that uses LARGE letter and in color.

As for copper extension cable, they work as well as any off the spool PVC/Vinyl .999 OFC copper. The color may vary, other than that,
OFC is good copper for most application. It's usually SC, stranded and both can be tinned.
The tube/dielectric and size is the deal breaker.

In most AV and HT applications the fact that zero return happens at a fairly low point in cables, makes a choices pretty simple.

The same is true for picky equipment, go ahead use extension cord (cable). You're the one that has to listen to it, not me.

For movies and HT "who cares", seems to be the general consensus from quite a few, go with that. Whatever makes your pickle squirt.
Birds of a feather, after all.

Regards

Even ETF copper is just fine for audio, OFC isn't necessary. That you don't know doesn't surprise me. You think silver has some sort of magic, lol.

 

[ryanosaur]

Is it time for Roger Russell?

 

[lovinthehd]

Is it time for Roger Russell?

One of them does use McIntosh gear...

 

[OHMisback]

Who is Rodger Russel? I don't get out much, and only read the "Globe" once a year. I quit all TV shows after Marlin Perkins gave up the ghost.

If Mr. Russel is on the side of cable is cable, SAVE IT, if it's for my benefit. I do appreciate the offer though.

A family FULL of Union electrician/welders, mechanic/welders, operators, welders, pipefitters and cops. They ALL learned about cables, everything matters.
Routing cables is 90% of all noise, yet 90% of the people that use cables DON'T route them correctly. Next POWER. 120vac on the button. Keep it there.
Protect your expensive gear. PERIOD! Use fast acting surge protection and maintain 120vac.

Vintage gear I always use a Variac. 110vac MAX.

I really like the part about "do cables matter"? With 90% replying NO!
I guess there is a lot of wireless, ay? Just askin'.

I like Rolls-Royce, and Farm Girl as a chauffeur. Not everyone agrees.

I prefer to stay out of trouble vs get out of trouble. I really don't care for crisis management at 67 either.
Left lung don't fail me now.. LOL Toot Toot!

 

[ryanosaur]

When I commented about spouting BS, it was because, while I am on the side of "It sounds good, to me", the lack of understanding what may/may not be happening in believing that some things make an improvement and the way they're advertised/sold is where I have problems- people are pre-sold on the idea that something will make it sound better and in some cases, they want to be part of the crowd who does hear what was presented as 'fact'.

Not directed back at you, friend highfigh, rather an attempt to further the open conversation that your previously quoted post seemed possibly worth commenting on.
Of course, this thread is gone the way of the loony and such attempts are falling on the deaf eyes of some. Personal vindication and private affirmation is a b!tch.

*sighs

Oh well.

 

[lovinthehd]

Who is Rodger Russel? I don't get out much, and only read the "Globe" once a year. I quit all TV shows after Marlin Perkins gave up the ghost.

If Mr. Russel is on the side of cable is cable, SAVE IT, if it's for my benefit. I do appreciate the offer though.

A family FULL of Union electrician/welders, mechanic/welders, operators, welders, pipefitters and cops. They ALL learned about cables, everything matters.
Routing cables is 90% of all noise, yet 90% of the people that use cables DON'T route them correctly. Next POWER. 120vac on the button. Keep it there.
Protect your expensive gear. PERIOD! Use fast acting surge protection and maintain 120vac.

Vintage gear I always use a Variac. 110vac MAX.

I really like the part about "do cables matter"? With 90% replying NO!
I guess there is a lot of wireless, ay? Just askin'.

I like Rolls-Royce, and Farm Girl as a chauffeur. Not everyone agrees.

I prefer to stay out of trouble vs get out of trouble. I really don't care for crisis management at 67 either.
Left lung don't fail me now.. LOL Toot Toot!

Roger Russel is a former director at McIntosh who has this site http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

You wouldn't want to read that, it would conflict with your belief system.

 

[witchdoctor]

For the person that uses lamp wire and likes to post in caps, the reason your system doesn't sound like it should is because you turned your cables into an antenna, hope this helps:

Home's electrical wiring acts as antenna to receive low-power sensor data

Using a home's electrical wiring as a giant copper antenna allows for wireless sensors that can communicate over a whole house and run for decades on a single watch battery. The device could be used for low-cost medical monitoring or home sensing systems.

www.sciencedaily.com