Audiophile Cable Synergy: Real or Snake Oil?

[highfigh]

Perhaps this thread should be moved to the Steam Vent?

Maybe it should be closed. Debate is fine, but some people are just looking for a Unicorn.

 

[highfigh]

>>>
Power feeds all of your gear so when you got the equipment right I would start from the power source and work back to the gear. Outlet, power conditioner, power cords. After that I find the digital cable makes a HUGE difference between your source and your AVR.
<<<

The question of "How much filtering is done by the power supply in the equipment?" needs to be considered, though. In some cases, even old equipment filtered an impressive amount of noise. An Electrical Engineer analyzed some old Fender & Marshall guitar amps and calculate that the Fender removed ~156dB of noise- being made in the mid-late '50s and using tubes, that's pretty good.

 

[OHMisback]

Maybe it should be closed. Debate is fine, but some people are just looking for a Unicorn.

Maybe it should be the other way around, if your NOT looking for Unicorns why bother commenting about those that are?
What's wrong with Unicorns? I find them much wiser than Eeyore.

Things change, you don't want a debate you want to preach what was preached in the 1890s about EE theory. Things change
and so has a LOT of other people views on what makes things work well. LIKE cables that work well together and some that
don't. I mentioned one but NOT by name.

I never called anyone a names either. WEAK comes to mind. Meek does not.

 

[highfigh]

Maybe it should be the other way around, if your NOT looking for Unicorns why bother commenting about those that are?
What's wrong with Unicorns? I find them much wiser than Eeyore.

Things change, you don't want a debate you want to preach what was preached in the 1890s about EE theory. Things change
and so has a LOT of other people views on what makes things work well. LIKE cables that work well together and some that
don't. I mentioned one but NOT by name.

I never called anyone a names either. WEAK comes to mind. Meek does not.

Anyone who makes assumptions without looking into the details of what they're discussing is foolish for trying to change minds- as I posted, I have been involved in audio for close to 50 years and have heard all kinds of claims, so it was necessary to listen and find out if they were valid. Upon listening and inspection, almost none made much, if any, difference. That's mainly concerning cabling, but build quality/components/internal materials did make definite improvements and I'm not one of those who say that none of it matters.

One of the main problems I have with this stuff is HOW it's sold and described and when it can't be heard WITHOUT any pre-selling or pre-conditioning by the people who try to sell it, they just say "It's experiential", or insult others by saying "Oh, I guess your system isn't as resolving as it could be". Resolving, my butt- if it 'resolve' anything, that means something is being changed, aside from amplitude. That's not fidelity.

Eyore is real, Unicorns aren't.

Uh, a lot of EE theory has come along since 1890- why are you even mentioning that time when almost NOTHING that exists in electronics and most of today's technology would have been imagined? I will say that they came a very long way in a very short time during that period, though.

I think I know which cable company you're alluding to and I remember talking to people about those problems with amplifiers letting out the magic blue smoke.

BTW- if you ever need any....

 

[witchdoctor]

Anyone who makes assumptions without looking into the details of what they're discussing is foolish for trying to change minds- as I posted, I have been involved in audio for close to 50 years and have heard all kinds of claims, so it was necessary to listen and find out if they were valid. Upon listening and inspection, almost none made much, if any, difference. That's mainly concerning cabling, but build quality/components/internal materials did make definite improvements and I'm not one of those who say that none of it matters.

One of the main problems I have with this stuff is HOW it's sold and described and when it can't be heard WITHOUT any pre-selling or pre-conditioning by the people who try to sell it, they just say "It's experiential", or insult others by saying "Oh, I guess your system isn't as resolving as it could be". Resolving, my butt- if it 'resolve' anything, that means something is being changed, aside from amplitude. That's not fidelity.

Eyore is real, Unicorns aren't.

Uh, a lot of EE theory has come along since 1890- why are you even mentioning that time when almost NOTHING that exists in electronics and most of today's technology would have been imagined? I will say that they came a very long way in a very short time during that period, though.

I think I know which cable company you're alluding to and I remember talking to people about those problems with amplifiers letting out the magic blue smoke.

BTW- if you ever need any....

View attachment 57107

If your main problem is HOW gear is sold try ordering gear with a free trial from any of the online vendors that offer one and you can try your new cables, or power conditioners, or speakers, or whatever, WITHOUT the risk of losing your investment to the people who are trying to sell it. I appreciate your point of view even though we may not agree. You have good manners

 

[Trebdp83]

Ah, the "?" threads. They are the gifts that keep on giving, aren't they?

 

[highfigh]

If your main problem is HOW gear is sold try ordering gear with a free trial from any of the online vendors that offer one and you can try your new cables, or power conditioners, or speakers, or whatever, WITHOUT the risk of losing your investment to the people who are trying to sell it. I appreciate your point of view even though we may not agree. You have good manners

My main problem is in telling people they'll hear things and getting them hooked on the idea that they will, without any way to test the sound without bias. The fact that they know it's being changed adds that and once it's there, there's no way to eliminate it- the "What if it's really making the difference?" question is answered more times than not with "Yes, it's better", whether it is, or not. Many people don't want to pay to return things and even if it comes with free returns, they might not want to bother with packing and shipping.

That leads people to expect this freedom to return after an inordinately long time if they buy from a local dealer, who's unable to offer that because once something is sold, it can't be returned and sold again, as new. That costs the seller a lot of money if it happens frequently enough, whether there's a good reason for the return, or not.

If you don't think the claims by people are odd or just wrong, have you ever heard someone say "I only buy new speaker wire"? They're out there, but they're ignoring the fact that, as soon as they pass current using that wire, it's used.

Good manners? How dare you?????????????

 

[witchdoctor]

My main problem is in telling people they'll hear things and getting them hooked on the idea that they will, without any way to test the sound without bias. The fact that they know it's being changed adds that and once it's there, there's no way to eliminate it- the "What if it's really making the difference?" question is answered more times than not with "Yes, it's better", whether it is, or not. Many people don't want to pay to return things and even if it comes with free returns, they might not want to bother with packing and shipping.

That leads people to expect this freedom to return after an inordinately long time if they buy from a local dealer, who's unable to offer that because once something is sold, it can't be returned and sold again, as new. That costs the seller a lot of money if it happens frequently enough, whether there's a good reason for the return, or not.

If you don't think the claims by people are odd or just wrong, have you ever heard someone say "I only buy new speaker wire"? They're out there, but they're ignoring the fact that, as soon as they pass current using that wire, it's used.

Good manners? How dare you?????????????

You know conditions are different, rooms are different, taste in music is different and of course hearing is different from person to person. Its OK if opinions are different too.

 

[lovinthehd]

You know conditions are different, rooms are different, taste in music is different and of course hearing is different from person to person. Its OK if opinions are different too.

This forum isn't particularly about the subjective personal experience thing, though. If you can actually prove something is audible, that's different, but if it's only in your head as it seems to be, not very interesting at all....

 

[highfigh]

This forum isn't particularly about the subjective personal experience thing, though. If you can actually prove something is audible, that's different, but if it's only in your head as it seems to be, not very interesting at all....

Imagine the arguments if this was an audio/video tweak's forum and people signed up because they had some kind of wrong idea about the intent.

 

[lovinthehd]

Imagine the arguments if this was an audio/video tweak's forum and people signed up because they had some kind of wrong idea about the intent.

I think this is getting close with these two....

 

[highfigh]

I think this is getting close with these two....

C'mon, Joey- poke it with a stick!

 

[ryanosaur]

C'mon, Joey- poke it with a stick!

On one hand I'm glad we've had some audio posts living here again. I wasn't prepared for the subjectivist side of it, though.

It's kinda like political propaganda: you only believe it if it makes you feel good inside.

 

[Trell]

On one hand I'm glad we've had some audio posts living here again. I wasn't prepared for the subjectivist side of it, though.

It's kinda like political propaganda: you only believe it if it makes you feel good inside.

You mean like storming the Capitol while hoping to catch the US Vice President so that he can be hanged properly?

 

[ryanosaur]

You mean like storming the Capitol while hoping to catch the US Vice President so that he can be hanged properly?

I was thinking a little less "lynchy."
More like no evidence supports voter fraud, but you believe it exists because it makes you feel better about your candidate losing an election and such.
The same as there has been no scientific evidence that supports cables somehow magically changing the laws of physics as it equates to electrons flowing through copper, yet you signed on with your candidate who then didn't deliver on promises, went batsh!t crazy, then lost the election and such... including every judicial challenge to try and substantiate a baseless claim of fraud. Which in their own right was fraudulent which is why those lawyers are facing their own legal problems too.

D@mn!
This wasn't supposed to be about legitimizing the idea this is bordering on Steam Vent material.

It's all your fault, Trell.

 

[Trell]

I was thinking a little less "lynchy."
More like no evidence supports voter fraud, but you believe it exists because it makes you feel better about your candidate losing an election and such.
The same as there has been no scientific evidence that supports cables somehow magically changing the laws of physics as it equates to electrons flowing through copper, yet you signed on with your candidate who then didn't deliver on promises, went batsh!t crazy, then lost the election and such... including every judicial challenge to try and substantiate a baseless claim of fraud. Which in their own right was fraudulent which is why those lawyers are facing their own legal problems too.

D@mn!
This wasn't supposed to be about legitimizing the idea this is bordering on Steam Vent material.

It's all your fault, Trell.

Life is hard and then you die!

 

[mtrycrafts]

I guess when you lack any facts, ...

Do you have any credible facts? You know, from credible tests, not opinions of others?

 

[OHMisback]

I think this is getting close with these two.

This forum isn't particularly about the subjective personal experience thing, though. If you can actually prove something is audible, that's different, but if it's only in your head as it seems to be, not very interesting at all.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What is a fact, is that your ideas and comments are your own. This site is providing information as it is updated. No one is living in a 50 year old vacuum.
If 75% believe one way and the rest believe another, that is what it is. It's still NONE of your business who thinks what. There is the fact. No one is
calling your comments "if it's only in your head as it seems to be, not very interesting at all." anything but your own. I find wichdoctors comments refreshing.
I find your repetitive and condescending.

As for proof, who exactly am I proving it to? Because the next question is, "do I APPROVE of the sound". It still boils down to "Listening" to the finished assembled
system. If I don't like the SQ who cares what it's suppose to sound like or measure. I screwed up. I don't like it.

I keep reading people quote "a more resolving system". The reason is pretty simple. That is what you need to hear differences in cables.
I'm pretty sure once most people fiddle with a picky valve amp, preamp, phono preamp and sensitive speakers, you WILL pay attention to cabling.
If your ears are real bad that sure doesn't help either.

I haven't heard every HT or AV based system BUT none of the cabling ruined the sound from the ones I've listened to. They had great HT and the stereo side
was good enough for the parties we were at. They were happy, so was I. I say pay for what you like with HT setups.

The Room, Speakers and Amps in order of SQ. Quality cables, may be low on the list, but they put the icing on the cake, when it's all said and done.
Routing cables included.

There are a few top of the line HT systems that good cable is going to make a difference in the end, between better and best.. Some choose better,
some choose "The Best". I'm saying you can have either for close to same price. Why be the Zip Cord King or worse yet call others names because
they choose better cables?

The names I seen in the name of cables. I love the crap talking about "Counterfeit Cables". I've been using cables from China, Russia, and any other
new or surplus source including our own US military for 30 plus years. Counterfeit Cables? Like someone actually has a patent on a cable design.
I'd really doubt it. Who's name is on the cable, I suppose that's an issue. "Son of Odin" then. Copyright? AliExpress is just fine.

There are 20K cables just like there are 20K DACs, only if YOU pay for them, not me.

I guess I won't mention the old Rolls-Royce or Duesenberg parked in the neighbors barn. They're just another car right?
Just like all cables are the same.

From ONE of these two.

Time to feed my chickens.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Maybe it should be closed. Debate is fine, but some people are just looking for a Unicorn.

I see lots of pictures of Unicorns, haven't you?

 

[OHMisback]

Do you have any credible facts? You know, from credible tests, not opinions of others?

What test? Everyone ask for test what the heck are you testing that hasn't been tested?
It's a little LATE for testing. You're NOT going to change anything by testing, ARE YOU?
That's MY POINT. If it has what you want buy it if not don't.

I have weight limits, age limits, speed limits and spending limits. Cables fall under "Spending"
The neighbor has 65K cable sets. I have under 500.00 total for a systems. LOL "Spending Limits"