Switching from bookshelves to in wall speakers for rear surrounds

[the machine]

Hi All,

Looking to get opinions on switching rear surround speakers from bookshelf to in wall.

I currently have SVS Prime bookshelves as my rear surrounds (my whole SVS set up is in the classifieds now) but the plan was to move to focal Kanta's for my rear surrounds. The Sopra 1's I currently have in time will either stay as my LR and I'll get another pair, or move to surrounds and make way for Sopra 2's.

I've never been fond of the set up for my rear surrounds, as I have them mounted to the wall, which isn't optimal. The rear port shouldn't be against the wall, and I have large speakers sticking out of the wall near the doorway. TBH, I currently don't notice much sound from these speakers now due to seating placement. I had considered just patching up the wall and sticking with 5.2.4. But now the idea of some in wall speakers intrigues me.

I'm looking at the Focal 1000 and 300 series. Does anyone think the difference in tweeters would be noticeable? Would it make more sense to use the 1000's since all the rest of the speakers are beryllium tweeters? Or is this less of an issue since most of the noise coming from these speakers is ambient. Also going to do in ceilings so the same questions apply.

Thanks for your insight

 

[j_garcia]

For surrounds, you can get away with a bit of a mismatch since there is somewhat less critical activity in them. Ideally, timbre matched is best, but in my experience, it is a lot less noticeable vs. a mismatched front stage where the difference is obvious. I would listen to the speakers if possible to see how much of a difference there is.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Something I would try first is move the sides a little closer to 90° if you can. This would help imaging between the mains and sides as well as giving some more separation between the sides and rears.

 

[the machine]

Something I would try first is move the sides a little closer to 90° if you can. This would help imaging between the mains and sides as well as giving some more separation between the sides and rears.

It may be hard to see in the photo, but I have a structural beam that runs through the middle of the room. The rear SVS elevations are mounted on this. Because of this, I placed the couch directly below this.

The plan is to rip some stuff apart and go with in ceilings for atmos, and then I can move the couch back a bit further. At that point, I will turn the surrounds a bit.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think we can all agree that Surround speakers aren't nearly as important as the main speakers.

I think the question is not about sound quality. I think the question is your pride of ownership. Will you be saying in a few years, "Man, I should have just gotten those Be Surrounds for a few dollars more".

 

[the machine]

I think we can all agree that Surround speakers aren't nearly as important as the main speakers.

I think the question is not about sound quality. I think the question is your pride of ownership. Will you be saying in a few years, "Man, I should have just gotten those Be Surrounds for a few dollars more".

A little more than a few dollars more. As far as the in ceiling, I can find the 1000 ICW6 at 799 and the ICA6 for 950 on eBay. Both retail for 1100. I can also find 300 ICW8 for 375 locally.

So 1500 for 4 in ceiling, vs 3200 or 3800. That's why I bring up the question as it is a huge jump. I wonder if the sound would seem to not blend well together using the two different tweeters. There's just not many impressions across the web. Hopefully someone here has heard both.

 

[j_garcia]

While I agree with ADTG, you wouldn't want to have to rethink it and want the better speakers, In this case though, I think it won't make enough of a difference to justify it. I might consider popping for the better surrounds, but not for the Atmos. IMO Atmos is a bigger benefit than the sides too.

 

[the machine]

I might consider popping for the better surrounds, but not for the Atmos. IMO Atmos is a bigger benefit than the sides too.

Can you clarify further? If the Atmos is a bigger benefit, then wouldn't it make sense to go wit hteh better speaker? Or are you saying 'I think Atmos makes more of a difference, and I still wouldn't overspend on the speakers'?

 

[j_garcia]

Can you clarify further? If the Atmos is a bigger benefit, then wouldn't it make sense to go wit hteh better speaker? Or are you saying 'I think Atmos makes more of a difference, and I still wouldn't overspend on the speakers'?

Yes, Atmos makes a bigger difference than sides in my opinion, but I would not say you needed far more expensive speakers to get that benefit.

 

[the machine]

Yes, Atmos makes a bigger difference than sides in my opinion, but I would not say you needed far more expensive speakers to get that benefit.

My normal surrounds on the side are staying bookshelves on stands, I'm only considering replacing the rear surrounds which are currently mounted to the back wall. The original thought was to replace them with another bookshelf, then decided it's not worth the extra money with degraded sounds performance due to rear ports and distance from MLP, but then after looking to an in wall I think it might help some of the issues at a fraction of the cost.

 

[j_garcia]

Yeah, no reason to get rid of the sides, just saying that Atmos when setup right, added a lot more than additional surrounds added. I actually got rid of my rears for a similar reason to you, I didn't like where they were and they didn't add enough to the mix. Atmos feels like it adds a lot more to the experience.

 

[lovinthehd]

If you cross the rears fairly high shouldn't matter much about the port...fwiw. OTOH if you're not noticing rear surrounds much maybe 5.1.4 would be the better way to go and save the money....

 

[Wardog555]

If you aren't hearing much from the rears. It comes down to two reasons. One is the sound mix doesn't use them too much. And two is it's possible that you need to calibrate them for speaker distance and levels. Another idea is to raise them up a little bit to clear the height of the seating.

My first thought and opinion was don't touch the rear speakers as they appear to be in a good position.

Hope this helps.

 

[j_garcia]

Have you tried just kicking the rears up +1dB from calibrated? Change the orientation of the sides so they are a little less directly pointed at you?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A little more than a few dollars more. As far as the in ceiling, I can find the 1000 ICW6 at 799 and the ICA6 for 950 on eBay. Both retail for 1100. I can also find 300 ICW8 for 375 locally.

So 1500 for 4 in ceiling, vs 3200 or 3800. That's why I bring up the question as it is a huge jump. I wonder if the sound would seem to not blend well together using the two different tweeters. There's just not many impressions across the web. Hopefully someone here has heard both.

If it is absolutely not about pride of ownership and 100% about sound quality, then just get the less expensive surrounds because you won’t hear much of a difference for surrounds.

 

[the machine]

If it is absolutely not about pride of ownership and 100% about sound quality, then just get the less expensive surrounds because you won’t hear much of a difference for surrounds.

Since I'm considering doing an in wall, it's really not about pride of ownership. For the speakers I can see, that is a different story. I know these may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I personally LOVE the look of the Sopra's. They are like a piece of art to me. I also love the sound of them. But with speakers that will get tucked into a wall or ceiling that I will not see, I don't really care too much as long as they sound good. I feel like anything I have watched thus far, I haven't noticed much from the atmos speakers, John Wick's, Fury, Midway. It may be the mix, it may be the speakers I currently use. It may be that the Ultra Towers and center in the room I have drowned out a lot of the other sound.

I appreciate everyone's replies thus far.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Since I'm considering doing an in wall, it's really not about pride of ownership. For the speakers I can see, that is a different story. I know these may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I personally LOVE the look of the Sopra's. They are like a piece of art to me. I also love the sound of them. But with speakers that will get tucked into a wall or ceiling that I will not see, I don't really care too much as long as they sound good. I feel like anything I have watched thus far, I haven't noticed much from the atmos speakers, John Wick's, Fury, Midway. It may be the mix, it may be the speakers I currently use. It may be that the Ultra Towers and center in the room I have drowned out a lot of the other sound.

I appreciate everyone's replies thus far.

As others have said, you need to increase the trim levels on those Atmos speakers so you can HEAR them when all the other speakers and subs are playing.

 

[the machine]

As others have said, you need to increase the trim levels on those Atmos speakers so you can HEAR them when all the other speakers and subs are playing.

I only ran the Audessey test and just left it at the levels it set it to. Once my set up is complete I'll try and fine tune everything.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I only ran the Audessey test and just left it at the levels it set it to. Once my set up is complete I'll try and fine tune everything.

I increased by Atmos speakers trims by +4dB.

My ceiling height is 14'. If I don't boost those trims, I wouldn't hear much.

 

[the machine]

I increased by Atmos speakers trims by +4dB.

My ceiling height is 14'. If I don't boost those trims, I wouldn't hear much.

My room is 16x20x8.5, it's a dedicated room, not open to anything else. I suspect it's more about the content I've viewed. Of the movies I mentioned, none are even on your Atmos list. Maybe I'll watch one of them to see.