Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[Mikado463]

and another one bites the dust, man I suspect all you Liberal gun haters are pissin' up a rope right now !

Police identify victims, gunman and armed bystander in Indiana mall shooting

Authorities revealed new details Monday on the weekend mall shooting in Greenwood, Indiana, including the identities of the gunman, three victims and the legally armed bystander who fatally shot the gunman.

www.cnn.com

sadly though three innocent people lost their lives, probably would have been more if not for the actions of a LAWFUL gun owner

 

[Trell]

and another one bites the dust, man I suspect all you Liberal gun haters are pissin' up a rope right now !

Police identify victims, gunman and armed bystander in Indiana mall shooting

Authorities revealed new details Monday on the weekend mall shooting in Greenwood, Indiana, including the identities of the gunman, three victims and the legally armed bystander who fatally shot the gunman.

www.cnn.com

sadly though three innocent people lost their lives, probably would have been more if not for the actions of a LAWFUL gun owner

You mean a liberal like @TLS Guy?

 

[GO-NAD!]

and another one bites the dust, man I suspect all you Liberal gun haters are pissin' up a rope right now !

Police identify victims, gunman and armed bystander in Indiana mall shooting

Authorities revealed new details Monday on the weekend mall shooting in Greenwood, Indiana, including the identities of the gunman, three victims and the legally armed bystander who fatally shot the gunman.

www.cnn.com

sadly though three innocent people lost their lives, probably would have been more if not for the actions of a LAWFUL gun owner

If "only" three innocent people being killed can be viewed in any positive light, it doesn't speak well of the current social/legal conditions.

 

[highfigh]

One for the bathroom, bedroom, kitchen, basement, attic, garage, dining room in case someone interrupts your peaceful meal. The glove compartment, and of course the office work drawer. There's ones for smaller prey, larger, gotta have the semi automatic when fishing shark or orca or the fast bird. You can never have enough.

50+ collection? Maybe 10 are used.

Collections aren't usually scattered around a house- the definition of 'collection' should be a clue for you.

People are fascinated by all kinds of things and guns can be interesting from the aspects of their design, machining or maybe rarity/age. People collect knives, too- it's not up to people to collect what you think and feel are valid but anyone who owns a large number of guns needs to make damn sure they don't get into the wrong hands.

You're probably not going to change any minds until and unless you address the real problem- people using guns carelessly, stupidly and criminally.

I showed the % of guns used in homicides vs total number of guns in the US, using FBI statistics of 45K gun deaths, assuming one gun is used for each and it didn't seem to make an impression- that comes to .01125%. That means 99.98875% that aren't used in homicides. Some shooters kill multiple people with one gun- kind of skews the numbers toward the "People are the problem" side, IMO.

For the cheap seats, more people are killed with blunt objects and personal weapons (fists, hands and feet- not sure why hands and fists are separate) than rifles of any kind.

I used this link instead of the one from Breitbart because you would probably crap all over me for that.

FACT CHECK: Are More People Killed By ‘Hammers And Fists’ Than AR-15s?

Small fraction of murders

checkyourfact.com

 

[Trell]

If "only" three innocent people being killed can be viewed in any positive light, it doesn't speak well of the current social/legal conditions.

He is the gun equivalent of an audiofool: immune to facts and science.

When he posts in the COVID thread he often gets smacked down and even named a member of the Beavis&Butthead faction GOP.

He/she is the modern Trump Republican “consevative” but any conservative in Europe hold him and his ilk in contempt. Same for Canada I think.

 

[highfigh]

Be interesting to know how many guns owners think are a sufficient amount? Can't be more than 10 I imagine.

Many of the gun owners who aren't paranoid think that one is enough. Unless a full-on assault is happening, the average defensive shooting involves three shots, within 7 yards between the shooter and the one who gets lead poisoning. My cousin's husband is one of the paranoid and he's originally from California. Not sure what cranked him over to his current position, although he does talk pretty tough for someone who would probably lose a fight with a small child.

 

[highfigh]

If "only" three innocent people being killed can be viewed in any positive light, it doesn't speak well of the current social/legal conditions.

It's a terrible thing when someone decides to kill others in a non-defensive situation, not that defensive gun use is actually a 'good' thing. I don't know of anyone who actually wants to kill even if they're trying to protect themselves or others, but in this case, someone was willing to stop someone else who had gone over the edge. There's really nothing good on the surface, but he did stop the killer before he was able to take out everyone. Now, he has to live with it.

My opinion that too many people suck, stands.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Collections aren't usually scattered around a house- the definition of 'collection' should be a clue for you.

People are fascinated by all kinds of things and guns can be interesting from the aspects of their design, machining or maybe rarity/age. People collect knives, too- it's not up to people to collect what you think and feel are valid but anyone who owns a large number of guns needs to make damn sure they don't get into the wrong hands.

You're probably not going to change any minds until and unless you address the real problem- people using guns carelessly, stupidly and criminally.

I showed the % of guns used in homicides vs total number of guns in the US, using FBI statistics of 45K gun deaths, assuming one gun is used for each and it didn't seem to make an impression- that comes to .01125%. That means 99.98875% that aren't used in homicides. Some shooters kill multiple people with one gun- kind of skews the numbers toward the "People are the problem" side, IMO.

For the cheap seats, more people are killed with blunt objects and personal weapons (fists, hands and feet- not sure why hands and fists are separate) than rifles of any kind.

I used this link instead of the one from Breitbart because you would probably crap all over me for that.

FACT CHECK: Are More People Killed By ‘Hammers And Fists’ Than AR-15s?

Small fraction of murders

checkyourfact.com

Breitbart is garbage.
Gun "collecting" is a dumb hobby regardless. You buy guns for a specific purpose, and to use them. Therefore you probably don't need that many of them. I'm sure the industry thanks them though.
My paragraph was in humor for the paranoid.
So if people are the problem, why not lift the ban on full automatics? Because people are strictly the problem? Or because full automatics are not that great a thing as a hobby too?
I stand by what I said. Less semi's hopefully leads to less deaths in school shootings.

 

[GO-NAD!]

It's a terrible thing when someone decides to kill others in a non-defensive situation, not that defensive gun use is actually a 'good' thing. I don't know of anyone who actually wants to kill even if they're trying to protect themselves or others, but in this case, someone was willing to stop someone else who had gone over the edge. There's really nothing good on the surface, but he did stop the killer before he was able to take out everyone. Now, he has to live with it.

My opinion that too many people suck, stands.

There are 'people who suck' all over the world. It's when 'people who suck' and easy access to firearms are combined that you get such carnage.

 

[highfigh]

Breitbart is garbage.
Gun "collecting" is a dumb hobby regardless. You buy guns for a specific purpose, and to use them. Therefore you probably don't need that many of them. I'm sure the industry thanks them though.
My paragraph was in humor for the paranoid.
So if people are the problem, why not lift the ban on full automatics? Because people are strictly the problem? Or because full automatics are not that great a thing as a hobby too?
I stand by what I said. Less semi's hopefully leads to less deaths in school shootings.

Personally, I think that if someone wants to collect guns, they could find inoperable replicas, but the vintage/historic ones need to work in order to fetch the highest prices when selling them.

Why not lift the ban on full-auto? That would only result in more deaths because people don't secure the guns that are available now. They can be bought, but only after paying a lot of money and jumping through several hoops.

FWIW- I'm not arguing against banning some weapons, but I think that more scrutiny of buyers is needed and Law Enforcement needs to report when someone threatens suicide or any kind of shooting. That needs to make it into the NICS system, so we don't see more "I guess another one slipped through the cracks".

 

[highfigh]

There are 'people who suck' all over the world. It's when 'people who suck' and easy access to firearms are combined that you get such carnage.

There are degrees of suckage, though. Guns, bombs, knives, whatever, reaching government office to lead countries where they would rather kill the people than govern and help them.....

 

[highfigh]

Breitbart is garbage.
Gun "collecting" is a dumb hobby regardless. You buy guns for a specific purpose, and to use them. Therefore you probably don't need that many of them. I'm sure the industry thanks them though.
My paragraph was in humor for the paranoid.
So if people are the problem, why not lift the ban on full automatics? Because people are strictly the problem? Or because full automatics are not that great a thing as a hobby too?
I stand by what I said. Less semi's hopefully leads to less deaths in school shootings.

And, there you go, on the source I DIDN'T use- when the source is seen as crap even if the story is also reported by others, what do you say about that?

 

[panteragstk]

And, there you go, on the source I DIDN'T use- when the source is seen as crap even if the story is also reported by others, what do you say about that?

The source should stop publishing crap if they want to be taken seriously.

 

[highfigh]

The source should stop publishing crap if they want to be taken seriously.

Show me a source that doesn't have some amount of bias and I'll check it out.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Some people don't even need to fire their weapons to show that they suck.

Man drew gun after women didn’t thank him for holding door in Hamden, police say

Joshua Murray, of New Haven, was charged with carrying a pistol without a permit, a felony, along with misdemeanor charges over the incident.

www.nhregister.com

 

[panteragstk]

Show me a source that doesn't have some amount of bias and I'll check it out.

We aren't talking about a source that has "some amount of bias". Some is fine. Making up nonsense is not.

It's like trying to use Buzzfeed as a source. Sure, sometimes they get stuff right and do actual journalism, but most of the time it's click bait nonsense.

 

[highfigh]

We aren't talking about a source that has "some amount of bias". Some is fine. Making up nonsense is not.

It's like trying to use Buzzfeed as a source. Sure, sometimes they get stuff right and do actual journalism, but most of the time it's click bait nonsense.

News used to be relatively unmolested- now, it's like a coked-up hooker in the worst places in the world.

Can I use The Onion (America's Finest News Source)?

If you don't think the media is responsible for who's elected and which politicians stay out of prison, you may want to step away a bit, to see things more clearly.

I HATE CLICK BAIT! Half of the time, whatever was in the headline isn't in the 'article'.

 

[highfigh]

Some people don't even need to fire their weapons to show that they suck.

Man drew gun after women didn’t thank him for holding door in Hamden, police say

Joshua Murray, of New Haven, was charged with carrying a pistol without a permit, a felony, along with misdemeanor charges over the incident.

www.nhregister.com

That's a great example of who shouldn't own a gun and I suspect this will come true for him very soon.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Personally, I think that if someone wants to collect guns, they could find inoperable replicas, but the vintage/historic ones need to work in order to fetch the highest prices when selling them.

Why not lift the ban on full-auto? That would only result in more deaths because people don't secure the guns that are available now. They can be bought, but only after paying a lot of money and jumping through several hoops.

FWIW- I'm not arguing against banning some weapons, but I think that more scrutiny of buyers is needed and Law Enforcement needs to report when someone threatens suicide or any kind of shooting. That needs to make it into the NICS system, so we don't see more "I guess another one slipped through the cracks".

I'm fine with collecting if they are responsible.

My point with full-auto was it isn't just people but the weapon that is the problem. A dumb weapon to be going around with as a hobby.

Here we are 23 years since Columbine and fairly regular pattern of school shootings IMO and someone over there in Congress goes 'I know. We need stricter gun control laws.' Pretty sad.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Does anyone here agree with the grand jury on this?

Mom blasts TX grand jury for DECLINING to indict man who killed girl

Gwen Alvarez said she didn't understand Tony Earls' 'innocence' while her daughter Arlene, 9, lays in a grave. 'He gets to see the light my daughter doesn't, my daughter is still dug down underground.'

www.dailymail.co.uk