I have 2500 for a receiver. 4700h or A6A

[Replicant 7]

Audio being very subjective to begin with can and will be discerning to anyone no matter how it is supposed to be perceived. With that said, between the two AVR's that the OP is considering that's a tough one both are very capable AVR's.
I'd be happy with either one, but it would come down to price, warranty and/or reliability and availability.

 

[PENG]

Right, like I said, I only compared the two in pure direct mode with a 2-channel stereo source.

At least you picked your choice based on what you think you hear, but as you said it wasn't "scientific" and you likely know such sighted tests don't mean much if at all to anyone else other than yourself.

That's why for those who are looking for more credible tests, they would search for tightly controlled double blind tests, unfortunately those are hard to find.

 

[olaf.freeman.sb]

At least you picked your choice based on what you think you hear, but as you said it wasn't "scientific" and you likely know such sighted tests don't mean much if at all to anyone else other than yourself.

Yes, that crossed my mind. It was definitely a subject to my personal preferences in sound _and_ also to my particular piece of equipment, which is not a representative sample by any statistical means. It might be faulty for what I know. And, I do like that perceived sound stage of Yamaha, but I don't know whether it is accurate or artificial (somehow).

That's why for those who are looking for more credible tests, they would search for tightly controlled double blind tests, unfortunately those are hard to find.

The thing is, though, I am yet to see those tightly controlled double blind tests for the subjects of this discussion. And objective measurements of X3700H v2 for that matter. So, I just shared what I have.

I didn't make the choice yet; not that it matters, but since you mentioned. Last night, I watched an Atmos movie on the Denon, and could not complain about anything. If/when I get around setting up the Yamaha, I might come back here and report that experience as well.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, that crossed my mind. It was definitely a subject to my personal preferences in sound _and_ also to my particular piece of equipment, which is not a representative sample by any statistical means. It might be faulty for what I know. And, I do like that perceived sound stage of Yamaha, but I don't know whether it is accurate or artificial (somehow).



The thing is, though, I am yet to see those tightly controlled double blind tests for the subjects of this discussion. And objective measurements of X3700H v2 for that matter. So, I just shared what I have.

I didn't make the choice yet; not that it matters, but since you mentioned. Last night, I watched an Atmos movie on the Denon, and could not complain about anything. If/when I get around setting up the Yamaha, I might come back here and report that experience as well.

Why would the playback electronics affect "soundstage"? What do you mean by soundstage since that's largely an artifact of the recording process and the interaction with your speakers/room to exploit.

 

[PENG]

Yes, that crossed my mind. It was definitely a subject to my personal preferences in sound _and_ also to my particular piece of equipment, which is not a representative sample by any statistical means. It might be faulty for what I know. And, I do like that perceived sound stage of Yamaha, but I don't know whether it is accurate or artificial (somehow).



The thing is, though, I am yet to see those tightly controlled double blind tests for the subjects of this discussion. And objective measurements of X3700H v2 for that matter. So, I just shared what I have.

I didn't make the choice yet; not that it matters, but since you mentioned. Last night, I watched an Atmos movie on the Denon, and could not complain about anything. If/when I get around setting up the Yamaha, I might come back here and report that experience as well.

You probably would agree that tightly controlled double blind tests are used to show more reliably whether or not electronic audio devices such as DAC, preamp, power amps affect sound quality when the specifications and measurements show there should be no audible difference to listeners with normal hearing.

For those who understand how the science work, would know that if such devices are used well within their designed limits, they will not result in audible difference. The majority of dac, preamp, power amp, avr, avp buyers don't have enough understanding of how the science (applicable to audio electronics) so they tend to believe in or at least heavily influenced by manufacturers marketing information, sales personnel, professional reviewers etc., and their often claimed night and day difference between even well designed/made power amps when there would be none perceived if they were put through properly set up comparison listening tests.

Any of those devices I mentioned can of course sound different, and the soundstage difference you perceived could be totally valid, but the difference you heard might have been caused by other things, not necessarily the DUTs (devices under test). For example, differences in set up, level not matched to within 1 or even 0.5 dB, seating position, background noise etc. etc.., there could be many factors involved, some could cause very subtle difference, others could cause more obvious/easily identifiable correctly by ears.

 

[OHMisback]

I agree that testing equipment is very important from a manufactures point of view. You have to tell the consumers something even if it is a three course word salad meal.
I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I claim to be. I look at the specs and listen to the piece I'm trying out. It usually takes me 1-2 month AFTER I make a choice to see if the piece is going to stay with me. A/B/C/D/F testing is just that. Every manufacture worth their weight voices their equipment by EAR when it's all said and done, right down to the last resistor. IF it passes the listening test it passes. They don't A/B/X anything. Finished products go in a listening room and are listen to. The testing was done in the RD stage. To late now. Test until they fire you, it won't change a thing until the next production update on the line in the case of Denon, Marantz or Yamaha.
Issues go to R&D first to save on double duty warrantee's. Warrantee information is a conformation of R&D success or failures. Sales just prove that looks count. LOL

There is the truth in any successful production run of electronics. Advertising helps!! Good or Bad.

Now:

I like Marantz over Denon. I don't care about the spec. I like Yamaha, the little I've heard of it. I'll take Mac over all or them for convenience and visual appeal with Cary valve gear for the the main monitor amps. The Cary on paper looks ok. It sounds a lot better than it looks on paper. A lot of their gear was voiced by ear alone. If it didn't blow up in R&D it was good for testing.. LOL I like rocket packs on bicycles too. ET phone home.

 

[Replicant 7]

I agree that testing equipment is very important from a manufactures point of view. You have to tell the consumers something even if it is a three course word salad meal.
I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I claim to be. I look at the specs and listen to the piece I'm trying out. It usually takes me 1-2 month AFTER I make a choice to see if the piece is going to stay with me. A/B/C/D/F testing is just that. Every manufacture worth their weight voices their equipment by EAR when it's all said and done, right down to the last resistor. IF it passes the listening test it passes. They don't A/B/X anything. Finished products go in a listening room and are listen to. The testing was done in the RD stage. To late now. Test until they fire you, it won't change a thing until the next production update on the line in the case of Denon, Marantz or Yamaha.
Issues go to R&D first to save on double duty warrantee's. Warrantee information is a conformation of R&D success or failures. Sales just prove that looks count. LOL

There is the truth in any successful production run of electronics. Advertising helps!! Good or Bad.

Now:

I like Marantz over Denon. I don't care about the spec. I like Yamaha, the little I've heard of it. I'll take Mac over all or them for convenience and visual appeal with Cary valve gear for the the main monitor amps. The Cary on paper looks ok. It sounds a lot better than it looks on paper. A lot of their gear was voiced by ear alone. If it didn't blow up in R&D it was good for testing.. LOL I like rocket packs on bicycles too. ET phone home.

Can't say you didn't make any good valid points cuz your post did. Rotel AVA-R 1580, to me looks better than all of the above mentioned with maybe the exception of Mac. So you have Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, let's throw in Sony, Onkyo and Pioneer. All middleweight contenders to the likes of heavyweights, Mac, Pass Lab, Krell and so on. Not to mention the very high-end audio/video processors. I don't think I've seen but a hand full of AH members mid high-end gear. Really high-end audio/video gear in the cost of 100k +. Hell there's home audio subs that'll set you back a 100k that'll smoke anything SVS has out or any of the other so called better sub manufacturers. The elites of this hobby very rarely post up on a audio forum of what they have in their set-ups. 200k for a pair of tower speakers or 300k for amps isn't something l would postup on a open forum. I'm sure some members will jump on a post up, my dedicated HT room is over 100k, I'd bet most of their HT room would be about total cost including the build of the room and amenities. So us audio enthusiast just gotta sit in the middle and suck on what Denon, Yamaha, Marantz call flagship and be happy with Our very subjective sounding audio systems. Just enjoy the ride bro cuz the sound waves are gonna be good and surfing smooth here on out.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can't say you didn't make any good valid points cuz your post did. Rotel AVA-R 1580, to me looks better than all of the above mentioned with maybe the exception of Mac. So you have Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, let's throw in Sony, Onkyo and Pioneer. All middleweight contenders to the likes of heavyweights, Mac, Pass Lab, Krell and so on. Not to mention the very high-end audio/video processors. I don't think I've seen but a hand full of AH members mid high-end gear. Really high-end audio/video gear in the cost of 100k +. Hell there's home audio subs that'll set you back a 100k that'll smoke anything SVS has out or any of the other so called better sub manufacturers. The elites of this hobby very rarely post up on a audio forum of what they have in their set-ups. 200k for a pair of tower speakers or 300k for amps isn't something l would postup on a open forum. I'm sure some members will jump on a post up, my dedicated HT room is over 100k, I'd bet most of their HT room would be about total cost including the build of the room and amenities. So us audio enthusiast just gotta sit in the middle and suck on what Denon, Yamaha, Marantz call flagship and be happy with Our very subjective sounding audio systems. Just enjoy the ride bro cuz the sound waves are gonna be good and surfing smooth here on out.

Those threads about "Dream Systems" are always fun.

I wonder if those bright blue lights on the McIntosh amps and pre-pros are distracting in a DARK HT room?

 

[everettT]

Those threads about "Dream Systems" are always fun.

I wonder if those bright blue lights on the McIntosh amps and pre-pros are distracting in a DARK HT room?

Most of those people have their gear behind the seating position except those that stare at them like they're a Bugatti.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Most of those people have their gear behind the seating position except those that stare at them like they're a Bugatti.

I mean for "regular people" like us who buy McIntosh either new or used. I was just trying to imagine what it would feel like watching a movie in a dark room and having 4 McIntosh blue lights.

 

[everettT]

I mean for "regular people" like us who buy McIntosh either new or used. I was just trying to imagine what it would feel like watching a movie in a dark room and having 4 McIntosh blue lights.

It never bothered me when I had my last amp from them, but the screen brightness overshadowed it. The new units seem to be brighter then the older ones, especially with their AV controllers with the additional blue lighting.

 

[Trell]

It never bothered me when I had my last amp from them, but the screen brightness overshadowed it. The new units seem to be brighter then the older ones, especially with their AV controllers with the additional blue lighting.

You need one of these gadgets:

 

[OHMisback]

I mean for "regular people" like us who buy McIntosh either new or used. I was just trying to imagine what it would feel like watching a movie in a dark room and having 4 McIntosh blue lights.

The newer PCB OpAmp units have a dimmable display or you can turn it off. No sunglasses needed.
I'm not a big SS Mac guy. I've had 601 and 1.2 MB. They were left to me by an uncle. He and my father both were
Mac, Marantz, Thoren, and JBL fans. He also left me the original JBL C45 Ranger in perfect condition.
Along with a pair of WE116A and a pair of Butterfly WE from my Dad, those pieces of gear funded my whole life of
stereo over the last 40+ year with money to spare.

I spent over 22K on an insurance deal. I didn't realize I had replacement cost. I paid 2600.00 for the 3 pieces, New
as demos. Farmers paid me over 22K including the cost of a Thoren Windsong 124II that was nicked. I just had to
buy it. I did. They paid me every dime in replacement, no questions. I was surprised. I still have the C2500, two MC275s
and the TD124. I'm glad I had insurance. I was worried about the tools that were stolen. They paid for everything AND
caught the guy. Lemons has brought me Lemonade 3 times.
The old gear, my Uncle and Dad, they would be 200 years old. Pretty good run actually. "And the beat goes on".

Funny part they only touch the speakers. 410lbs each.. There was palm prints on the TOP they left behind. Wasn't mine.
They are hard waxed every 2 years and Pledge between once a month. Still spotless 18 years later. Silk Covers

Good for me, BAD for them. Thank you dumb thief.

Time to feed the chickens.

 

[Replicant 7]

The newer PCB OpAmp units have a dimmable display or you can turn it off. No sunglasses needed.
I'm not a big SS Mac guy. I've had 601 and 1.2 MB. They were left to me by an uncle. He and my father both were
Mac, Marantz, Thoren, and JBL fans. He also left me the original JBL C45 Ranger in perfect condition.
Along with a pair of WE116A and a pair of Butterfly WE from my Dad, those pieces of gear funded my whole life of
stereo over the last 40+ year with money to spare.

I spent over 22K on an insurance deal. I didn't realize I had replacement cost. I paid 2600.00 for the 3 pieces, New
as demos. Farmers paid me over 22K including the cost of a Thoren Windsong 124II that was nicked. I just had to
buy it. I did. They paid me every dime in replacement, no questions. I was surprised. I still have the C2500, two MC275s
and the TD124. I'm glad I had insurance. I was worried about the tools that were stolen. They paid for everything AND
caught the guy. Lemons has brought me Lemonade 3 times.
The old gear, my Uncle and Dad, they would be 200 years old. Pretty good run actually. "And the beat goes on".

Funny part they only touch the speakers. 410lbs each.. There was palm prints on the TOP they left behind. Wasn't mine.
They are hard waxed every 2 years and Pledge between once a month. Still spotless 18 years later. Silk Covers

Good for me, BAD for them. Thank you dumb thief.

Time to feed the chickens.

Gotta ask Ole timer, any Sub's in your HT set-up?

 

[OHMisback]

Gotta ask Ole timer, any Sub's in your HT set-up?

Oh yea.
I use up too, 4 double GR 12" OB Servo sub (0-80hz) and two 72" tall bass columns for bass work (80-280hz) with
small planars and ribbons for monitors. I use RMx Elixirs, RMX30 and 40s too. 150-410lb each.

2 4.4cf double IB Dayton DSP1200.
2 20cf 60" tall cabinets 15x2 active and 18x2 passive drivers. I use DCX2496 (s) and 12K Behringers for non active subs.

Different subs different applications.

GR OB are the easiest on the ears with long concerts and heavy bass. A lot of fast Latin music with quick transitions from
brass to percussion to vocals. Quite stunning actually. I run valve preamps, photo stage and power amps. I like valves they
are easier on my ears for the monitors section. SS for the bass and sub. Better control. COOLER!!

Regards

 

[Replicant 7]

Oh yea.
I use up too, 4 double GR 12" OB Servo sub (0-80hz) and two 72" tall bass columns for bass work (80-280hz) with
small planars and ribbons for monitors. I use RMx Elixirs, RMX30 and 40s too. 150-410lb each.

2 4.4cf double IB Dayton DSP1200.
2 20cf 60" tall cabinets 15x2 active and 18x2 passive drivers. I use DCX2496 (s) and 12K Behringers for non active subs.

Different subs different applications.

GR OB are the easiest on the ears with long concerts and heavy bass. A lot of fast Latin music with quick transitions from
brass to percussion to vocals. Quite stunning actually. I run valve preamps, photo stage and power amps. I like valves they
are easier on my ears for the monitors section. SS for the bass and sub. Better control. COOLER!!

Regards

Very nice! You mentioned gear I'd dream of owning. 18"X 2 driver's lol. Talk about actually feeling the base hit you. Thanks for sharing that info with us on AH.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Very nice! You mentioned gear I'd dream of owning. 18 X 2 driver's lol. Talk about actually feeling the base hit you. Thanks for sharing that info with us on AH.

So after you get that house, what components do you dream of owning (other than that Rotel AVR)?

 

[Replicant 7]

So after you get that house, what components do you dream of owning (other than that Rotel AVR)?

Went look at a house 1/2 hour ago. Its a older home. Gotta find something in my price range. Between 100k to 150k. Already pre-approved for FHA loan with Chase bank with 3.5% down on 149.500k come to about 5.300 hundred. FHA loan you get yearly insurance, closing costs everything factored into the monthly note. So depending on what I find, may not be able to get any gear this year. Already upgraded to a 65" 4K tv, two AC window units, got my portable generator coming in today. Oh and spent 650 on my prescription eyeglasses on the 14th of this month. Already pulled out 3k from my savings account to purchase those.

I been looking into finding a Owner financing deal, If I can find a friendly Owner financier, that'll do, or a owner lease to own to, with minimal down, Than I would be able to afford them nice RBH towers and that nice 3 channel ATi amp. I'll even let the Owner financier put his Ranch Brand on my chest like (John Dutton) does to his Ranch, Cowboy wranglers on Yellowstone! That way if something happens, which I hope nothing happens, sure don't want to be taken to the train station.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Went look at a house 1/2 hour ago. Its a older home. Gotta find something in my price range. Between 100k to 150k. Already pre-approved for FHA loan with Chase bank with 3.5% down on 149.500k come to about 5.300 hundred. FHA loan you get yearly insurance, closing costs everything factored into the monthly note. So depending on what I find, may not be able to get any gear this year. Already upgraded to a 65" 4K tv, two AC window units, got my portable generator coming in today. Oh and spent 650 on my prescription eyeglasses on the 14th of this month. Already pulled out 3k from my savings account to purchase those.

I been looking into finding a Owner financing deal, If I can find a friendly Owner financier, that'll do, or a owner lease to own to, with minimal down, Than I would be able to afford them nice RBH towers and that nice 3 channel ATi amp. I'll even let the Owner financier put his Ranch Brand on my chest like (John Dutton) does to his Ranch, Cowboy wranglers on Yellowstone! That way if something happens, which I hope nothing happens, sure don't want to be taken to the train station.

One GOAL at a time!

The HOUSE is salient. Gotta have the house first before any audio/video components!

 

[OHMisback]

OP I just paid off the last rental I had. I'm 100% debt free. I'm in a no pay tax bracket (by a hair) and darn proud of it.
I'm selling the one rental I have left to the guy that has lived there for 15 years. I paid 39K for the property and did about
18-20K in repairs 35 years ago. All the plumbing including new heavy copper water lines, electrical service, new Romex,
new roof, siding, windows, doors, sheetrock, and floors/carpet. Me and a buddy did all the work in about 9 weeks, less
the drywall. The house sat on 1/4 acre corner lot and is a 850sf home. The guy will pay 315k. 60K under market value.
He is happier than a bug eatin' scat. No BS just a trip to the Title Company and a 3 day close. I carry the paper at 3.25%
He cannot pay it off sooner than 5 years and no more than 20% per year towards the principal for the first 5 years. It is
a 15 year contract with 65K down. I carry 260K after closing (close).

My rule is simple. I try to buy the smallest house on the largest lot I can find. I always look at the rentals in a very close
proximity too. Too many I pass.

I had one bad renter out of 10 renters in 50 years. He was a Jewel too. LOL I didn't sell him the property, I let the Sheriff
serve him at WORK.. LOL

Buy a house, buy a house, buy a house. or Build a house. I did two times. That is kind of fun..