I have 2500 for a receiver. 4700h or A6A

N

Newtothisworld

Audiophyte
After doing some research on receivers it has come down to these two and i know i could just order both and try them out but i would prefer to skip all that process and get some input from some of you guys on here. I have just ordered panasonic dp ub820, RP 8000f, RP 504c, RP 600M, RP 500sa and two r-112sw that should arrive in a couple of days:) The question is should i get the 4700h or A6A. I was set on the 4700h cuz of how well known denon is as a brand and the 4700h seems to get great reviews except for the running a littler hot. The A6A had only one issue and that was the update but now that they are out and seem to be working im kinda drawn to the A6A merely cuz of looks and of course the performance. Any real tech info or any info would be very appreciated.
Thank you
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Pick the features/connectivity/amp section that works best for you for the $ is what I'd do....but I'm a little partial to Denon myself, having a couple and seems Audyssey is more capable than YPAO, nor would I care to realign my terminology to Yamaha's :) .

Might try this to help https://www.zkelectronics.com/receivers/
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi

Which AVR have you owned in the past?

Are there features that are important to you?
 
N

Newtothisworld

Audiophyte
I am coming from the Bose world and want to move away from not being able to customize it and move away from small speakers. I have never owned a receiver before and just want to make sure I’m getting best bang for my buck(2500). I really enjoy movies a little more than music but i do own a record player and enjoy a good music sesh. i know denon is super well known and have great reviews but run a little hot. I also thought about the 7015 but not sure if it’s worth the extra five hundred which would be a stretch for me but doAble. My Bose is about ten years old so i like keeping things for a long time and want to make sure the tech is going to last. Yamaha seems to be a better av at the moment, the only bad things i read about were the lack of update but since its out now and everything seems to work fine Yamaha seems a little better. I’m just trying to sell my self on the Yamaha merely off looks and the fact its ten pounds heavier.
Thanks for your guys time with the responds. I really appreciate the responds
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Weight doesn't mean a lot. The difference of 25 wpc in amp power isn't all that meaningful either (represents less than 1dB spl advantage). Either avr will work fine in any case, they just have some different features. The Marantz and Denon avrs are very close being sister brands, but they tend to market the Marantz for a bit more cost here in the US particularly and hasn't measured quite as well as Denon altho they seem to be addressing that with some of their latest models. Adding external cooling isn't unusual for an avr, especially if you'll stuff it into a cabinet or similar....

Overall a move away from Bose is a good thing, especially for speakers....don't even get me started on what they call a sub. :) Too bad the pandemic has forced prices up, you used to do better for the bucks....
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I am coming from the Bose world and want to move away from not being able to customize it and move away from small speakers. I have never owned a receiver before and just want to make sure I’m getting best bang for my buck(2500). I really enjoy movies a little more than music but i do own a record player and enjoy a good music sesh. i know denon is super well known and have great reviews but run a little hot. I also thought about the 7015 but not sure if it’s worth the extra five hundred which would be a stretch for me but doAble. My Bose is about ten years old so i like keeping things for a long time and want to make sure the tech is going to last. Yamaha seems to be a better av at the moment, the only bad things i read about were the lack of update but since its out now and everything seems to work fine Yamaha seems a little better. I’m just trying to sell my self on the Yamaha merely off looks and the fact its ten pounds heavier.
Thanks for your guys time with the responds. I really appreciate the responds
Like everyone says, it mostly comes down to personal preference. Some will prefer Denon/Marantz. Some will prefer other brands.

I personally prefer Yamaha as I have stated in the Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem thread. Yamaha just works out better for me personally.

If you are thinking Yamaha is for you, check out that Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem thread. And know that there are many people who would also get Yamaha. So you are definitely not alone.

As far as sound quality, I think Yamaha and Denon/Marantz sound equally great. Just a matter of personal preference.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
After doing some research on receivers it has come down to these two and i know i could just order both and try them out but i would prefer to skip all that process and get some input from some of you guys on here. I have just ordered panasonic dp ub820, RP 8000f, RP 504c, RP 600M, RP 500sa and two r-112sw that should arrive in a couple of days:) The question is should i get the 4700h or A6A. I was set on the 4700h cuz of how well known denon is as a brand and the 4700h seems to get great reviews except for the running a littler hot. The A6A had only one issue and that was the update but now that they are out and seem to be working im kinda drawn to the A6A merely cuz of looks and of course the performance. Any real tech info or any info would be very appreciated.
Thank you
If you can hold off a few months and let the Chip issue work out, it's probably beneficial. Now that AkM. Is shipping again, let the manufacturers sort out the inventory. That will help with resale if and when it comes up.

EDIT: If your set on buying now, I have an unopened 4700 that has the upgraded HDMI board that I'd let go for...
 
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olaf.freeman.sb

olaf.freeman.sb

Audiophyte
There is certainly difference in sound between Denon X3700H/X4700H and Yamahas AxA. (And between Denon and Maranz, at least according to some of my experience). The closer it gets to your ear, the more important the role of medium becomes, so speakers and room will have much more effect than difference between those brands. But there _is_ perceptible difference between those receivers.

I am hesitant to use fancy words that you'll find in reviews, but my feelings are that my A6A is "brighter" than my X3700H. At times it manifests as more "harsh" and less "natural". However, I still prefer the Yamaha because the sound stage (or whatever, the perception of different sounds' positioning in space) is better defined, and vocals are clearer than those of the Denon's.

And it is not only side by side. I always had Yamahas, and when I went on with trying X3700H, it bothered me that the vocals (and pretty much everything else) were like "compressed"; stuffy nose is the closest analogy I can come up with (a very slight effect, though). This mostly affects me while listening to music in Pure Direct mode.

But again, I am sure much more depends on room acoustics and the speakers. My room is far from ideal—it is probably very reflective. My speakers are B&W 683.
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
There is certainly difference in sound between Denon X3700H/X4700H and Yamahas AxA. (And between Denon and Maranz, at least according to some of my experience). The closer it gets to your ear, the more important the role of medium becomes, so speakers and room will have much more effect than difference between those brands. But there _is_ perceptible difference between those receivers.

I am hesitant to use fancy words that you'll find in reviews, but my feelings are that my A6A is "brighter" than my X3700H. At times it manifests as more "harsh" and less "natural". However, I still prefer the Yamaha because the sound stage (or whatever, the perception of different sounds' positioning in space) is better defined, and vocals are clearer than those of the Denon's.

And it is not only side by side. I always had Yamahas, and when I went on with trying X3700H, it bothered me that the vocals (and pretty much everything else) were like "compressed"; stuffy nose is the closest analogy I can come up with (a very slight effect, though). This mostly affects me while listening to music in Pure Direct mode.

But again, I am sure much more depends on room acoustics and the speakers. My room is far from ideal—it is probably very reflective. My speakers are B&W 683.
Here the 6a

Here is the 3700 last measured

The measurements tell a different story FWIW. Now your speakers if they are S2 have a midrange/high frequency issues, most B&W speakers do minus the current 800 series which are better, but still shows the house sound. In pure direct, both should sound a bit rough.

915B683fig4.jpg
 

Attachments

olaf.freeman.sb

olaf.freeman.sb

Audiophyte
Also might be of interest (regarding X4700H in particular):
 
olaf.freeman.sb

olaf.freeman.sb

Audiophyte
Here the 6a
It is not an Aventage.

Here is the 3700 last measured
I just bought it, so it is the updated DAC version, not what Amir measured.

Here is something relevant:
There seem to be differences that audio science site didn't measure.

Now your speakers if they are S2 have a midrange/high frequency issues, most B&W speakers do minus the current 800 series which are better, but still shows the house sound. In pure direct, both should sound a bit rough.

View attachment 56922
I am well aware of that, that's why I brought the speakers in the equation. I, actually, comfort myself that the "harshness" I hear from Yamaha in pure direct is due to the signature B&W sound, and Denon is just masking it by inability to reproduce it fully.
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
I seriously doubt it but just for giggles, how did you level match and who did the switching of the gear?
 
olaf.freeman.sb

olaf.freeman.sb

Audiophyte
Level match: by ear.
I find that the closed setting between my A6A and my X3700H is, respectively, -24.0 and -21.5. It is not exactly the same, sadly, but any change introduces even bigger difference.

Switch: mostly myself.

BTW, I am sure the switch itself, although mechanical, might introduce a variable (like a resistor). But changing wires in all combinations doesn't hide the difference between the two receivers, which is pretty clear to me; at least, when listening to them side-by-side.

For giggles?? I am not here to prove anything. I am sharing experience for the benefit of OP, only because I have them side by side. You can read as much bias in it and giggle as much as you want.

It is not scientific, depends very much on the environment (like I said), and probably cannot be compared to pure measurements. There is no known to me bias, though. The whole reason I bought A6A is because I didn't really like the Denon's sound after RX-871. So, I am trying to decide which to keep for myself, with the price difference being $700.

Well, in that respect, if anything, I am biased towards Denon, actually.

BTW, this site measured A6A:
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Level match: by ear.
Switch: mostly myself.

For giggles?? I am not here to prove anything. I am sharing experience for the benefit of OP, only because I have them side by side. You can read as much bias in it and giggle as much as you want.

There is no known to me bias, though. The whole reason I bought A6A is because I didn't really like the Denon's sound after RX-871. So, I am not trying to decide which to keep my self, with the price difference being $700.

Well, in that respect, if anything, I am biased towards Denon, actually.
For giggles, I meant the listening tests people use to make decisions. FWIW, level matching can't be done by ear because the slightest difference effects perception and the switching part is important, you as the reviewer/consumer can't know which piece of gear you're listening to.
 
olaf.freeman.sb

olaf.freeman.sb

Audiophyte
Sure, in theory all you want is least distortion and flat frequency response, etc.

But here is the real (world) deal: I have X3700H set up and I actually like it in the movies. Yet, I am leaning towards spending extra $700, re-calibrating with YPAO, risk worse room correction and surround reproduction for the movies (which is the primary application of this receiver)—all because of the "imaginary", as you imply, difference in the sound. Not sure what would my incentive behind this be.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
Sure, in theory all you want is least distortion and flat frequency response, etc.

But here is the real (world) deal: I have X3700H set up and I actually like it in the movies. Yet, I am leaning towards spending extra $700, re-calibrating with YPAO, risk worse room correction and surround reproduction for the movies (which is the primary application of this receiver)—all because of the "imaginary", as you imply, difference in the sound. Not sure what would my incentive behind this be.
Use of a different room EQ and other DSP effects will have an audible difference, but I don’t think that he was claiming that.
 
olaf.freeman.sb

olaf.freeman.sb

Audiophyte
Right, like I said, I only compared the two in pure direct mode with a 2-channel stereo source.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
Right, like I said, I only compared the two in pure direct mode with a 2-channel stereo source.
Yeah, unlikely to hear a difference then.

I never use direct mode on my Denon so I don’t recall if distance and speaker level from the calibration is used, ditto for Yamaha. That could make an audible difference.
 
olaf.freeman.sb

olaf.freeman.sb

Audiophyte
The links to reviews are up there for checking yourself if desired, but IIRC, there is no DSP involved in pure direct for either.

Well, there is enough audible difference for me to sit down an scratch my head. Depends on material too.

The big thing to me is not even side-by-side comparison, but the fact that something prompted me to go back to Yamaha after causally listening to music on X3700H.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
There is certainly difference in sound between Denon X3700H/X4700H and Yamahas AxA. (And between Denon and Maranz, at least according to some of my experience). The closer it gets to your ear, the more important the role of medium becomes, so speakers and room will have much more effect than difference between those brands. But there _is_ perceptible difference between those receivers.

I am hesitant to use fancy words that you'll find in reviews, but my feelings are that my A6A is "brighter" than my X3700H. At times it manifests as more "harsh" and less "natural". However, I still prefer the Yamaha because the sound stage (or whatever, the perception of different sounds' positioning in space) is better defined, and vocals are clearer than those of the Denon's.

And it is not only side by side. I always had Yamahas, and when I went on with trying X3700H, it bothered me that the vocals (and pretty much everything else) were like "compressed"; stuffy nose is the closest analogy I can come up with (a very slight effect, though). This mostly affects me while listening to music in Pure Direct mode.

But again, I am sure much more depends on room acoustics and the speakers. My room is far from ideal—it is probably very reflective. My speakers are B&W 683.
In Direct Mode, there shouldn’t be much of a difference in sound if the only variables are the AVRs (same room, same speakers, same actual volume).

I’ve owned both Denon (AVP-A1HDCI, AVR-5308CI) and Yamaha (CX-A5100, RX-A3080).
 

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