Upgrading both my AVR and integrated stereo amp

[lovinthehd]

So all the information online about combining HT with stereo amps is false and a waste of money?
Why do people incorporate multi thousand dollars worth of integrated amps in HT systems (for speakers that aren't power hungry)?

Lots of phoolish things in audio, particularly in many fora/audio groups/blogs....some rooted in the distant past (like an integrated amp). An integrated amp is just a limited unit, why it's put on a pedestal by some is hard to know. Back in the day we'd just get a separate pre-amp/amp instead of a receiver or integrated amp.

 

[lovinthehd]

Instead of concentrating on spending money on electronics, doing what you can to maximize placement/treatment/seating in the room would be more impactful, or just better speakers, is a better way to spend your money for improved sound quality.

 

[TLS Guy]

So all the information online about combining HT with stereo amps is false and a waste of money?
Why do people incorporate multi thousand dollars worth of integrated amps in HT systems (for speakers that aren't power hungry)?

Yes, it is false. There is a lot of Audiophoolery BS out there on the Internet. That nonsense about integrated amps is part of it. In almost all cases it is a downgrade and actually worse than a waste of money.

This forum will point you in the right direction. We get the odd Audiophool wander in from time to time, but we usually get them out of here sharpish.

This an objective data leaning forum. We do not trust anyone to have a better ear than objective data. Trusting someone's subjective impressions, is no way to build a good reliable first class system. I do think though you are highly capable of being easily deprogrammed from this nonsense. We all do our level best to give you the straight facts.

 

[Swerd]

So all the information online about combining HT with stereo amps is false and a waste of money?
Why do people incorporate multi thousand dollars worth of integrated amps in HT systems (for speakers that aren't power hungry)?

By this time a good number of others have already answered your question. All I can do is agree with them.

Spending extra money on two systems – an AVR for movies/TV – and an integrated amp for music is a waste. The integrated amp does nothing different or better than an AVR when it's set to 2-channel stereo mode. The idea that they sound different is a myth promoted by people who benefit from selling extra electronic gear.

What's more, those two integrated amps you previously mentioned are rated to put out less power than a Denon X3700's rated 105 watts/channel. If I remember correctly, one was rated at 50 wpc and the other was 70 wpc. You might actually hear inferior performance from less power.

It has been often debated what aspects in home audio benefit from spending extra money. If you listed the Top Ten Things that perform audibly better when you spend more, the first 8 on that list would be speakers. After that, in 9th or 10th place, would be greater amplifier power.

Pre-amps or DACs don't even make it onto that list. Please note that AC power, speaker, or interconnect cables are also never mentioned.

 

[lovinthehd]

Got me thinking....just what is all this information about mixing integrated amps with avrs? Links to some actual comparisons? Or more the usual excited consumer with new toys stuff?

 

[everettT]

Got me thinking....just what is all this information about mixing integrated amps with avrs? Links to some actual comparisons? Or more the usual excited consumer with new toys stuff?

I rember the first guy I met with a Krell HTS pre pro that added an intergrated amp into the mix back in the late 90s early 2ks. I was just scratching my head.

 

[Gil111000]

Got me thinking....just what is all this information about mixing integrated amps with avrs? Links to some actual comparisons? Or more the usual excited consumer with new toys stuff?

How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system

Combine hi-fi and home cinema in a best-of-both-worlds system

www.whathifi.com

Improving Stereo Performance of a Surround Sound Setup - Part 2 | Royd

This series of articles looks at methods to improve the stereo performance of your surround setup. Here I’m g

www.roydaudio.org

Thinking of adding Stereo Amp to AVR

Now that I have my AV sorted out for now, I'm starting to give some thought to other things I may do in future. I have a Yamaha RX-V781 AV receiver currently used in a 5.1 speaker setup with floor standing mains. Im currently using the bi-amp feature on that mains as much because its there as...

www.avforums.com

There are many threads and articles on this. And why would the HT bypass option even exist, besides adding more watts to the front channels in a system?

 

[lovinthehd]

How to combine stereo and surround sound in one AV system

Combine hi-fi and home cinema in a best-of-both-worlds system

www.whathifi.com

Improving Stereo Performance of a Surround Sound Setup - Part 2 | Royd

This series of articles looks at methods to improve the stereo performance of your surround setup. Here I’m g

www.roydaudio.org

Thinking of adding Stereo Amp to AVR

Now that I have my AV sorted out for now, I'm starting to give some thought to other things I may do in future. I have a Yamaha RX-V781 AV receiver currently used in a 5.1 speaker setup with floor standing mains. Im currently using the bi-amp feature on that mains as much because its there as...

www.avforums.com

There are many threads and articles on this. And why would the HT bypass option even exist, besides adding more watts to the front channels in a system?

Quantity doesn't relate to quality particularly, tho. Whathifi is a pretty silly site for audio gear "info", avforums isn't far behind....never saw the royd thing before but doesn't look promising.

 

[Beave]

Three sites full of bad info that you should now know to avoid for any advice on, well, anything.

 

[PENG]

There are many threads and articles on this. And why would the HT bypass option even exist, besides adding more watts to the front channels in a system?

You obviously use the internet for all sorts of things so must know there are all kinds of sites that say all kind of things. There are lots of people who believe in exotic expensive audio cables too. If you apply the same logic you will ask the same question about why would those things (exotic cables, $600,000 power amps, $15,000 AVRs) exist.

Just because those things exist does not mean they actually deliver what you want, if what you want is "sound quality". Again, if that's goal, then look to high quality recording media contents, speakers, room correction systems (including room acoustic treatment). That is not to say your RXV373 receiver is good enough for you MA Silver, but as mentioned, one of those recommended AVRs will most likely be if you don't need more than 50 WPC.

MA RX2 specs:
Sensitivity: 90 db/1W/1m
Nominal Impedance
6 Ohms
Maximum SPL
113.8
Power Handling (RMS)
100W

You can see that something like the AVR-X3700H, or Yamaha RX-A6A (even the RX-A4A) has more than enough output to destroy the little RX2.

A few years ago, I installed a Monitor Audio Silver 8 5.1 system for someone, in a large room and I bought the Marantz SR7009 to drive them. The Silver 8 system is more difficult to drive than your RX2, yet the SR7009 that is only a touch more powerful than the AVR-X3700H. It has no problem driving the Silver 8s. The guy is rich, and I could have bought him a 500 W separate amps but it wouldn't have make any audible difference for him.

By the way, no one will tell you not to spend money on separate preamps, dacs and power amps. I do that many times myself, though I started downsizing recently. Just gave another 250/500 W Halo amp away recently, but everyone who owned separate amps for various reasons that may or may not make sense for you.

 

[Swerd]

Three sites full of bad info that you should now know to avoid for any advice on, well, anything.

@Gil111000
In addition to what Beave said, note all the advertisements, likely the only source of income for those websites. Those advertisers clearly stand to benefit from increased sales of their electronic gear. That should be enough for you to question their advice. Unfortunately, the home audio world is full of such misinformation.

There is no reason why you should avoid using an AVR to listen to music, in 2-channel mode, or whatever mode suits you.

 

[fmw]

A good stereo amp can deliver better two channel sound than most AVR's two channel capabilities. That's at least what I read online.
The components cost is divided between less amplifiers.

I may have misuderstood. My impression is that he wanted an AVR for home theater and a two channel amp for music. Using the AVR for both would be even lower in cost. To say that an integrated amp will outperform an AVR in terms of sound quality would require a bias controlled listening test. I've done many such tests. My experience is that amplifiers today don't distort signals audibly unless they are driven to clipping. Assuming the home theater would include a subwoofer, the requirements for the rest of the amplification would be pretty minor. I can't imagine clipping an amplifier for that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's at least what I read online.

I think everyone should read some free ONLINE archive articles from THE AUDIO CRITIC before spending one dime on audio.

If you want the cheap, fast and dirty recap:

1. Amps, Preamps, CD players, Cables/Wires do NOT have a sound signature of their own.

2. Processors (DSP, EQ, Tones) will all sound differently.

3. When LEVEL-MATCHED and working within their limits, all amps, preamps, AVR and AVP will sound about the same in DIRECT MODES (No DSP, EQ, Tones).

4. Most of the time, your speakers don’t really need much power since most of us listen to an average sound level of less than 85dB. Thus, most AVR have enough power without using external amps.

5. The ACD rule. ACD = ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN (like 200W x 7 CH driven). ACD is a torture test for amps and AVR. In REAL LIFE we won’t encounter ACD. So focus on the 2CH Power Test (100W x 2CH into 8 ohms, 150W x 2CH into 4 ohms).

Now with that said, if you want an integrated amp, that’s perfectly fine also. There’s no wrong way.