I have no idea what I'm doing

[Tenatra]

Hi everyone,

Straight to the point of the title. I'm just now getting into home theatre. The extent of my audio knowledge is putting subs in my car.

I'm on a tiiiiight budget for this new...adventure. Audio isn't a priority for me. It started when I realized my soundbar is about...12 years old and really sucks. I started looking into a new one. Did research. Decided I wanted "atmos" with actual surround sound.

Won a STR-DH790 7.1 reciever on ebay for $200 thinking I'd be able to do 7.1.4 because I didn't research enough. You likely already know what I didn't. I have to choose between 7.1 or 5.1.2. Finally, I hit up facebook marketplace for some cheap Yamaha speakers from an old 5.1 prebuilt system ($40 with receiver) and 5 Acoustic Audio ceiling speakers for $50 new in box. I know I don't need and can't use 5, but they were cheap and new.

My current plan is 5.1.2 with mounting the ceiling speakers with a backer box since ATMOS was the goal to begin with, but thought I'd find somewhere to ask questions before I messed up too bad.


1. So is 5.1.2 good or would the 7.1 sound much better in my open floor plan since the couch is about 6 foot off the rear wall? (Video and pics attached)


2. I plan to upgrade components over time with "used" stuff, like adding front towers, but with all my extra ceiling speakers I began thinking.. I'm completely capable of building a nice good looking solid sealed box and have the wood/stain available already. Couldn't I just build a box and put these 8" ceiling speakers in the box with the current 6" prebuilts/ tweeters from the Yamaha system to make my own "towers" for the front L/R channels or would that not work?

If I end up with 5.1.2, would the rear surrounds be better all the way in the back corners or the forward corners right beside the couch? I know that would put one speaker basically right beside my ear, but I feel like if it's in the far back corner the sound would be off as well. I know I have a less than ideal room for this. Just making due with what I've got.

Thanks in advance to all the audiophiles in here who have probably easily cringed 5 or 6 times while reading this. I repeat, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to do something.

Here is the room:

 

[ryanosaur]

Can't dig in right now, but if the budget is tight, start small.
Work to get a good 5.1 implementation going and functioning right, then worry about expanding.
Use the Dolby placement guides to help you get your Speakers placed properly.

 

[Tenatra]

Can't dig in right now, but if the budget is tight, start small.
Work to get a good 5.1 implementation going and functioning right, then worry about expanding.
Use the Dolby placement guides to help you get your Speakers placed properly.

When you get a chance, maybe give it a look if you don't care. I've seen the guides and diagrams, but haven't figured it all out. My room isn't square. Lol

 

[everettT]

When you get a chance, maybe give it a look if you don't care. I've seen the guides and diagrams, but haven't figured it all out. My room isn't square. Lol

Focus on the front 3 and subwoofer and get the absolute best you can afford. Then fill in the 2 or 4 bed layers before moving to Atmos. I'd skip the 2 rear channels in favor of two height channels if it were me.

Enjoyment comes from quality not quantity if that helps.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hate to tell ya but just the pursuit of such gear makes you an audiophile It's not a skill, more a pursuit of the gear for good audio reproduction.

You could perhaps install the drivers for the ceiling speakers into boxes, but you'd have to run the numbers, i.e. use the Thiele Small (T/S) parameters for them in a program to calculate proper volume for sealed boxes (or proper volume and vent/port dimensions for vented/ported boxes). You can use a program like Winisd or BassBoxPro or others. If you can even find the T/S parameters (or want to invest in gear to measure them yourself like the Dayton DATS system). The drivers may be poor choices for such altogether, tho.

I'd start with perhaps just a 2.1 or 3.1 system and work up....

 

[Tenatra]

Atmos over rears. Got it. Well, I'm mounting the ceilings, since I've got them. lol.


Any input on the surrounds placement? I guess I can just try both before permanently running wires

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW in a 5ch system you have surrounds, in a 7ch system you add rear surrounds (or front heights in a basic 7.1). Surrounds should be more to the sides than the rear, as you probably saw in those Dolby speaker layout suggestions.....

 

[Tenatra]

Hate to tell ya but just the pursuit of such gear makes you an audiophile It's not a skill, more a pursuit of the gear for good audio reproduction.

You could perhaps install the drivers for the ceiling speakers into boxes, but you'd have to run the numbers, i.e. use the Thiele Small (T/S) parameters for them in a program to calculate proper volume for sealed boxes (or proper volume and vent/port dimensions for vented/ported boxes). You can use a program like Winisd or BassBoxPro or others. If you can even find the T/S parameters (or want to invest in gear to measure them yourself like the Dayton DATS system). The drivers may be poor choices for such altogether, tho.

I'd start with perhaps just a 2.1 or 3.1 system and work up....

I could say experienced audiophiles then. LOL. I'd do sealed boxes and can figure out the volume (not new to that). Just didn't know if it would be worth the effort on these ceilings or if I was missing something. I already have the speakers for the rears, so I guess I can just try them in both spots. Was planning to mount the "atmos" tonight since I know exactly where they are going already.

 

[Tenatra]

FWIW in a 5ch system you have surrounds, in a 7ch system you add rear surrounds (or front heights in a basic 7.1). Surrounds should be more to the sides than the rear, as you probably saw in those Dolby speaker layout suggestions.....

I did see that. I was just worried about the surround being so close to my head with my couch in that corner and that spot being my primary seat.


Long story short, my room layout sucks.

 

[lovinthehd]

I did see that. I was just worried about the surround being so close to my head with my couch in that corner and that spot being my primary seat.


Long story short, my room layout sucks.

Many rooms aren't friendly like that In my bedroom setup (5.1) my surrounds are not very far away from my ears and it's not a big issue. You can always adjust the trim level for the surrounds somewhat as well. Are you planning on having them wall mounted or on stands, or ?

 

[Tenatra]

Saw this on another forum. I could just point the really close surround up toward the ceiling to avoid it being right in my ear perhaps?

"To avoid an unwanted proximity effect, make sure the speakers are at least 3 feet (0.9 meter) away from listening positions, ideally 5 feet (1.5 meters) or more."
Placing them about six inches below the ceiling, aimed at the ceiling, accomplishes that. Surround content doesn't benefit from precise imaging, so there's no downside to doing this.

 

[Tenatra]

Many rooms aren't friendly like that In my bedroom setup (5.1) my surrounds are not very far away from my ears and it's not a big issue. You can always adjust the trim level for the surrounds somewhat as well. Are you planning on having them wall mounted or on stands, or ?

There is no room for stands. It'll be on the wall as the couch is tight in that corner.

 

[lovinthehd]

I could say experienced audiophiles then. LOL. I'd do sealed boxes and can figure out the volume (not new to that). Just didn't know if it would be worth the effort on these ceilings or if I was missing something. I already have the speakers for the rears, so I guess I can just try them in both spots. Was planning to mount the "atmos" tonight since I know exactly where they are going already.

I was more thinking just about taking the ceiling speakers and putting them into boxes for in-room use as L/R/C or surrounds for base layer. Raising the surround level in a 5.1 or 7.1 system is common, but you don't want the base layer too close to the ceiling as that can interfere with the Atmos effect....

 

[Tenatra]

I was more thinking just about taking the ceiling speakers and putting them into boxes for in-room use as L/R/C or surrounds for base layer. Raising the surround level in a 5.1 or 7.1 system is common, but you don't want the base layer too close to the ceiling as that can interfere with the Atmos effect....

My "base layer" would all be at ear level just about back of couch. I was going to have the surrounds at ear level to. The atmos was supposed to be my height.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks in advance to all the audiophiles in here who have probably easily cringed 5 or 6 times while reading this. I repeat, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to do something.

You asked questions before getting too deep into this. That's good. So it doesn't matter how many people reading this cringe. What matters if you ended up cringing because you spent a lot of money before asking for some advice.

Decided I wanted "atmos" with actual surround sound.

What made you decide on Atmos? Was it something in particular, or was it the general weight of all the advertising promoting Atmos?

My current plan is 5.1.2 with mounting the ceiling speakers with a backer box since ATMOS was the goal to begin with, but thought I'd find somewhere to ask questions before I messed up too bad.

1. So is 5.1.2 good or would the 7.1 sound much better in my open floor plan since the couch is about 6 foot off the rear wall? (Video and pics attached)

I agree with the others who say start out simple with 5 channel (or even 3 channels) surround sound, and work your way up later.

When you say 5.1.2 what do you mean? Five speakers plus 1 sub woofer and 2 what else? Typically 5 channels mean three front speakers (front left, front center, and front right) and two rear or surround speakers. The 3 front speakers are the most important.

I couldn't tell from your photo or video, but if you have one sofa, I'd stop with 5 channels. Put the rear/surround speakers behind or beside the sofa, as best as your room allows. If you have two sofas, one behind the other, like two rows of theater seating, I'd go for 7 channels. One set of side surrounds goes beside the front row, and the rear surrounds go behind or beside the back row.

2. I plan to upgrade components over time with "used" stuff, like adding front towers, but with all my extra ceiling speakers I began thinking.. I'm completely capable of building a nice good looking solid sealed box and have the wood/stain available already. Couldn't I just build a box and put these 8" ceiling speakers in the box with the current 6" prebuilts/ tweeters from the Yamaha system to make my own "towers" for the front L/R channels or would that not work?

Wait till you have the 5 or 7 channel surround sound system up and working before you even think about ceiling speakers. Once you have it set up right, it will sound much better than your old soundbar. Many of us, including me, don't bother with Atmos at all. Those extra speakers plus the amps needed to drive them – in my honest opinion – aren't worth the extra cost. Of course, my opinion only matters for me. I'd rather spend more money on better quality front speakers than add more surrounds or Atmos speakers.

If I end up with 5.1.2, would the rear surrounds be better all the way in the back corners or the forward corners right beside the couch? I know that would put one speaker basically right beside my ear, but I feel like if it's in the far back corner the sound would be off as well. I know I have a less than ideal room for this. Just making due with what I've got.

The diagrams for surround sound always show an ideal arrangement in a perfect room. No one has such a room. The receiver has ways for you to adjust for different distances between the speakers and the listener. You'll learn all about them as you go through the receiver's Set Up Procedure.

 

[Tenatra]

You asked questions before getting too deep into this. That's good. So it doesn't matter how many people reading this cringe. What matters if you ended up cringing because you spent a lot of money before asking for some advice.
What made you decide on Atmos? Was it something in particular, or was it the general weight of all the advertising promoting Atmos?

Successful advertising, the same reason I enlisted in the military back in the day. Ziplining from helicopters looked cool. LOL. Once I get something in my head...I hyper-focus on that one thing until the next thing consumes me.

I agree with the others who say start out simple with 5 channel (or even 3 channels) surround sound, and work your way up later.

When you say 5.1.2 what do you mean? Five speakers plus 1 sub woofer and 2 what else? Typically 5 channels mean three front speakers (front left, front center, and front right) and two rear or surround speakers. The 3 front speakers are the most important.

5 ear level speakers, 1 Sub, and the 2 ceilings. That's what I had read as how to classify it anyway.

My receiver is capable of either that or 7.1, replacing the height speakers with rears.

I wish I could tell you I'd work my way up later, but since I already bought these nice new ceiling speakers and the old 5.1 system, I'd be lying to you. My desire to get it all mounted greatly outweighs any patience I have.

I couldn't tell from your photo or video, but if you have one sofa, I'd stop with 5 channels. Put the rear/surround speakers behind or beside the sofa, as best as your room allows. If you have two sofas, one behind the other, like two rows of theater seating, I'd go for 7 channels. One set of side surrounds goes beside the front row, and the rear surrounds go behind or beside the back row.
Wait till you have the 5 or 7 channel surround sound system up and working before you even think about ceiling speakers. Many of us, including me, don't bother with that at all.
The diagrams for surround sound always show an ideal arrangement in a perfect room. No one has such a room. The receiver has ways for you to adjust for different distances between the speakers and the listener. You'll learn all about them as you go through the receiver's Set Up Procedure.

One large sectional sofa about 6 to 8 feet off the back wall but also partially in a recessed corner.

 

[NINaudio]

"To avoid an unwanted proximity effect, make sure the speakers are at least 3 feet (0.9 meter) away from listening positions, ideally 5 feet (1.5 meters) or more."
Placing them about six inches below the ceiling, aimed at the ceiling, accomplishes that. Surround content doesn't benefit from precise imaging, so there's no downside to doing this.

This sounds like advice from ages ago when the surround channels were not part of a discrete mix but were matrixed. I would ignore this piece of advice as the surround mixes of today absolutely will benefit from precise imaging.

 

[everettT]

"To avoid an unwanted proximity effect, make sure the speakers are at least 3 feet (0.9 meter) away from listening positions, ideally 5 feet (1.5 meters) or more."
Placing them about six inches below the ceiling, aimed at the ceiling, accomplishes that. Surround content doesn't benefit from precise imaging, so there's no downside to doing this.

Just lowering the level will take care of it, (RC will adjust) even if extremely close. The setup will adjust for it. Bouncing them will create other issues, one being that it will be louder then is comfortable

 

[emorphien]

Agree with the others on focusing on the 5.1 first. Get that to where you are happy with it, then expand to Atmos. My receiver only does 7 channels and I eventually plan to add two more speakers as front Atmos/heights.

One thing to keep in mind, and I don't think gets stressed enough, is that Atmos is more about having good angular coverage from your speakers, not meeting exact specific distances.

 

[Wardog555]

Focus on the angles for speaker placement. 110 degrees is where I suggest for the surrounds.

And almost directly above you but slightly forward for the overhead ceiling speakers. And have them spaced between the front and center speakers.