Robb elementary shooting in TX

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Why hell, teachers don't have enough on their plates yet, let's get them armed so they can shoot, and while we are at it, let's get them taught how to be mental health advisers so they are johnny on the spot. Might as well build a mote around schools. Lock all doors to make it more difficult to escape fires. Just home school everyone.

What nonsense.

If 400 million weapons not keeping us safe, maybe we need 800 million?
Aren't we the safest country with 400 million? Other countries must have billions on hand to be safe as they are.

More bs....
OK, but you need to consider the fact that we probably have more than a million with mental illness and aren't confined to some kind of treatment facility.

In public buildings, the doors must open outward and can't be secured with chains, cables or anything else, to prevent them opening in the event that people need to get out quickly. The door in Uvalde was left open by a teacher.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I hope the maker of this weapon gets sued to bankruptcy.
If Daniel Defense is looking for a legal defense team, I understand that Alex Jones and his guys are available. He lost several defamation lawsuits (also initiated by Sandy Hook families), was fined for contempt of court by a judge, among many other abominations & travesties. After filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy, I think he needs some cash flow right away.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This morning, I read a good op-ed opinion piece in The Washington Post. It was written by Neil Meyer, a retired lawyer, a fifth-generation Texan, who now lives in Bethesda, MD. He offers the much needed perspective of someone who knows that town well. Here's the full text (I've bolded a few sentences):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/29/uvalde-shooting-warning-signs-racism-poverty-guns/

I’m from Uvalde. I’m not surprised this happened.

I was born in Uvalde, Tex., lived there recently and love its complex history and people. Like most, I’ve been struggling under the weight of grief to understand the violence that left 19 children, two teachers and a young killer dead last week. But I’m not surprised.

First, you would be challenged to find a more heavily armed place in the United States than Uvalde. It’s a town where the love of guns overwhelms any notion of common-sense regulations, and the minority White ruling class places its right-wing Republican ideology above the safety of its most vulnerable citizens – its impoverished and its children, most of whom are Hispanic.

Second, at news of the shooting, I was struck to hear the words “Robb Elementary” because I knew of its centrality to the struggle in Uvalde over the past half-century to desegregate its schools. Robb sits in the city’s southwest quadrant. So I knew the victims of the shooting would largely be Hispanic. They have been locked into that school for decades.

In Uvalde, simply put, everything north of Highway 90 is primarily White Republican, and everything south is mostly Hispanic Democrat. The city has about 15,000 residents; more than 80% identify as Hispanic or Latino.

Most of Uvalde’s political leadership and the heads of the largest employers are White. At the center of town on the courthouse grounds, you’ll find a monument to Jefferson Davis, the Confederate president – installed when the Ku Klux Klan dominated Uvalde politics. (Some of us tried to get the monument removed after the murder of George Floyd, but that’s a story for another day.)

When I heard reports about the shooter, a young Latino, I winced at the reflexive disclaimer that he wasn’t an “illegal immigrant”. It wasn’t surprising to learn that he was bullied for a speech impediment, may have come from a broken family struggling with drug use and had experienced problems in school. Drug use plagues the city, and the courts struggle under the weight of young people’s encounters with the legal system. About 1 in 3 Uvalde children live in poverty.

The killer allegedly bought his guns at the Oasis Outback, a popular lunch spot for wealthier Uvaldeans, known for its large buffet, hunting supplies and gun shop. On most days you’ll also see groups of Border Patrol agents and local law enforcement there. It’s a monthly meeting place for groups such as the Uvalde County Republican Women, whose Facebook page includes posts decrying “the border invasion”.

The Oasis reflects the establishment’s deep cultural reverence for guns, hunting and the Wild West mythology. I wasn’t surprised that an 18-year-old could walk in and easily buy tactical weapons without anyone being concerned.

I wasn’t surprised to see the Republican panel of politicians at a news conference the day after the shooting, almost all White and in top positions of power in the community and the state, taking the lead. In Uvalde, the custodians of order – the chief of police, the sheriff, the head of the school district police – are Hispanic, but here they were largely silent. Unsurprisingly, they now bear the primary blame for the disastrous response at the school.


Finally, I wasn’t surprised to see victims being flown to San Antonio for treatment. The Uvalde hospital was converted in recent years to a critical access facility, limiting its number of beds. The hospital benefited financially, but many residents seeking health care must now travel to distant locations. The negative impact on a community with high rates of poverty – families who can’t afford this burden – is obvious.

President Biden and the first lady visited Uvalde on Sunday to offer comfort to the families of victims at Robb. But Uvalde and other towns like it need more than comfort – we need to know that American leaders will take the overdue steps necessary to keep these communities safe.

Let’s start with banning assault weapons and limiting young people’s access to firearms. The freedom to own weapons that facilitate mass murder is less important than the safety of our children. These guns are not needed for hunting, and they don’t need to be sold to 18-year-olds. Most Americans and many Texans agree, despite the rhetoric of Republican leaders.

Let’s also recognize that Uvalde has a sufficiently large law enforcement presence, between the police department, the sheriff’s office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the Texas Rangers, Customs and Border Protection and the FBI. We won’t succeed in creating “hardened targets” by arming teachers and other civilians.

Finally, the social conditions that gave birth to deadly violence and the killer’s mental condition can be addressed through our support of community organizations, health-care systems and schools – by supplying resources and legal avenues to identify and deal with emerging threats such as the one posed by this young man.

The deaths at Robb Elementary were predictable and avoidable. Uvalde, the state of Texas and the United States of America failed the children and teachers who died there. We owe it to their memory and to current and future generations to avoid yet another, similar tragedy.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Good article Rich which dare I say re-enforces so many of our nations 'gun problems'

We had an interesting discussion yesterday at my gun club prior to shooting our round of clays and our squad wholeheartedly agreed in the problem of guns, mental illness, poorly enforced laws already on the books and my pet peeve ......... the family unit.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Interesting perspective on the town by Rich. Too bad when he writes the below, he somehow finds no words to describe the Uvalde police's performance in this tragedy.

Let’s also recognize that Uvalde has a sufficiently large law enforcement presence, between the police department, the sheriff’s office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the Texas Rangers, Customs and Border Protection and the FBI. We won’t succeed in creating “hardened targets” by arming teachers and other civilians.

The long term conclusion will lead some to legally buy weapons for the first time because they have concluded that they cannot rely on police response. This is happened after Parkland and has been the trend in the inner cities. And the sentence about "hardened targets" is bit misleading. The typical mass shooter is usually too cowardly to plan an attack against a known "hardened target". That's one of the reasons why the NYPD patrols the schools.

Former NYPD Commish Bratton, who has some experience, had some interesting comments

 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
alright, let me re-state that, in good conscience.
I don't think you need to re-state it- due diligence comes in many forms and I hope they keep their video from the surveillance cameras for more than a short period, so it can be examined.

From what I have read, that dealer sold ammunition (.223 and 5.56mm) to smugglers, but that was in 2011, so who knows if the ownership has changed. Some gun dealers are only interested in the money, like one place here- they had a long reputation for selling guns used in shootings and holdups, but the store changed hands. I went to check it out and after seeing the others in the store and hearing the guy at the counter say "I'll take a library card if I get money from it" after being asked if he'd take American Express. To his credit, he did explain to the potential customer that he can't take the application home to have his grandmother fill it out so, kudos to him, I guess.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Oh, the supreme court justices who believe in the constitution as the founding fathers wrote it, in essence no change to it until they so deem it can be changed/limited by law. Why Alito goes back, way back before 1785 to make excuses.
Are you referring to 'Federalists'?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If Daniel Defense is looking for a legal defense team, I understand that Alex Jones and his guys are available. He lost several defamation lawsuits (also initiated by Sandy Hook families), was fined for contempt of court by a judge, among many other abominations & travesties. After filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy, I think he needs some cash flow right away.
Screw him.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Interesting perspective on the town by Rich. Too bad when he writes the below, he somehow finds no words to describe the Uvalde police's performance in this tragedy.

Let’s also recognize that Uvalde has a sufficiently large law enforcement presence, between the police department, the sheriff’s office, the Texas Department of Public Safety, the Texas Rangers, Customs and Border Protection and the FBI. We won’t succeed in creating “hardened targets” by arming teachers and other civilians.

The long term conclusion will lead some to legally buy weapons for the first time because they have concluded that they cannot rely on police response. This is happened after Parkland and has been the trend in the inner cities. And the sentence about "hardened targets" is bit misleading. The typical mass shooter is usually too cowardly to plan an attack against a known "hardened target".
My take on Neil Meyer's (the author) comment is that Uvalde already has an usually large presence of local, state, and federal law enforcement for a small town of 15,000. Their unexplained feeble & late responses make it seem like someone dropped the ball. No additional fortification of school buildings or arming teachers can fix that problem.

In addition, the author also noted (see quote below) that the local chief of police, sheriff, and head of the school district police – all of whom are Hispanic – were largely silent at that news conference – while their White superiors did most of the talking. He clearly wonders if these local police are being set up to bear the blame. Were those White superiors deliberately 'throwing them under the bus' to cover their own failure to order a rapid response? It's enough to make me wonder if that might be true. Could that be the reason why the US Dept. of Justice wants to investigate this?
I wasn’t surprised to see the Republican panel of politicians at a news conference the day after the shooting, almost all White and in top positions of power in the community and the state, taking the lead. In Uvalde, the custodians of order – the chief of police, the sheriff, the head of the school district police – are Hispanic, but here they were largely silent. Unsurprisingly, they now bear the primary blame for the disastrous response at the school.
While I agree that a common reaction to any of these mass shootings will be that the public will buy even more guns, it doesn't make the problem any better.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
My take on Neil Meyer's (the author) comment is that Uvalde already has an usually large presence of local, state, and federal law enforcement for a small town of 15,000. Their unexplained feeble & late responses make it seem like someone dropped the ball. No additional fortification of school buildings or arming teachers can fix that problem.

In addition, the author also noted (see quote below) that the local chief of police, sheriff, and head of the school district police – all of whom are Hispanic – were largely silent at that news conference – while their White superiors did most of the talking. He clearly wonders if these local police are being set up to bear the blame. Were those White superiors deliberately 'throwing them under the bus' to cover their own failure to order a rapid response? It's enough to make me wonder if that might be true. Could that be the reason why the US Dept. of Justice wants to investigate this?
While I agree that a common reaction to any of these mass shootings will be that the public will buy even more guns, it doesn't make the problem any better.
Sorry Meyers article, thanks. Not so sure on the possible "racist" angle yet in this case. It's entirely too early and with the conflicting/changing stories, the media has surely done their best to run with angles until the unfolding evidence proves otherwise. So far, it looks like the focal point will be Pete Arredondo who some are now saying was not carrying his radio as well as the other allegations.

IMO, for the children's safety point of view, the more impactful and immediate response to school shootings would be the use of armed guards to "harden" the targets. To the best of my knowledge, and I hate even tempting fate with the statement, the worst school shootings are not as frequent in high density urban schools because there is usually an armed police presence there. Am guessing that's not because of a lack of guns in NYC because there are constant stories of students taking guns into schools everyday here undetected. Longer term solutions must be pursued but at least it's something we can do tomorrow morning.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Sorry Meyers article, thanks. Not so sure on the possible "racist" angle yet in this case. It's entirely too early and with the conflicting/changing stories, the media has surely done their best to run with angles until the unfolding evidence proves otherwise. So far, it looks like the focal point will be Pete Arredondo who some are now saying was not carrying his radio as well as the other allegations.

IMO, for the children's safety point of view, the more impactful and immediate response to school shootings would be the use of armed guards to "harden" the targets. To the best of my knowledge, and I hate even tempting fate with the statement, the worst school shootings are not as frequent in high density urban schools because there is usually an armed police presence there. Am guessing that's not because of a lack of guns in NYC because there are constant stories of students taking guns into schools everyday here undetected. Longer term solutions must be pursued but at least it's something we can do tomorrow morning.
At this point, I don't know why metal detectors aren't at the doors in every school. They don't need to be expensive, just sensitive.
 
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