Sub Active in Pure Direct

[little wing]

@Snakeeys set us straight, I am no expert when it comes to subs.

I feel like my sub could benefit from some Eq. Even though I have a Umik and downloaded REW, I still don't know what the heck I'm doing. I don't have the option to experiment with sub placement as my sub is in the only place it could go, so I'm not sure how much good measuring the bass response would do me anyway.

 

[snakeeyes]

But stereo is somewhat a misnomer, yes? In that it's still a mono signal to each sub. Does Yamaha still do this? Seems goofy.

No the mono is a different setting. These are 3 different options. So in “stereo” likely pulls lower frequencies from speakers on each side of room separately somehow. (Goofy probably).

Since only the upper stuff is able to be localized this makes sense more with HTIB satellite speakers or something. LOL I mean who would take their crossover up super high like 200hz unless their speakers had 3 in drivers.

 

[lovinthehd]

No the mono is a different setting. These are 3 different options. So in “stereo” likely pulls lower frequencies from speakers on each side of room separately somehow. (Goofy probably).

Since only the upper stuff is able to be localized this makes sense more with HTIB satellite speakers or something. LOL

I somehow doubt that it draws signal from each channel from what I remember into digging into this setting in the past, but I could be wrong....not much advantage to doing "stereo" in any case, tho.

 

[snakeeyes]

I somehow doubt that it draws signal from each channel from what I remember into digging into this setting in the past, but I could be wrong....not much advantage to doing "stereo" in any case, tho.

Ya Shady said use mono when I read other threads on the use of stereo sub settings.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ya Shady said use mono when I read other threads on the use of stereo sub settings.

I think it was more a setting to make those placing subs near their left and right speakers feeling better about themselves....

 

[snakeeyes]

I think it was more a setting to make those placing subs near their left and right speakers feeling better about themselves....

Probably not a useful feature. Think once they pay some engineers to create something they just keep including it on upper models whether it’s useful or not.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

My friend has a 3080. We tried the front rear sub setting with his four subs. Iirc, the rear subs only went active when the surrounds were active. That was a little while ago. The left right thing doesn’t make any sense either.
Fukkin Yamaha….. just CANT be normal!!!

 

[tmk1986]

Anyone care to chime in with their thoughts on setting the crossover to 50Hz, setting the mains to “Large”, enabling Double Bass and using Pure Direct? If I’m understanding, this should allow the sub to handle those lowest frequencies even in Pure Direct mode. I saw this recommended elsewhere as well as Double Bass being referenced by @lovinthehd .

 

[Trebdp83]

So, concerning the front pre outs, they should not be used when also using the corresponding speaker terminals. The Grotto manual does mention using them as one connection option using certain receivers but Yamaha advises against it with this particular receiver.

While a handful of receivers can make use of a subwoofer in Pure Direct mode when using the LFE connection, the Yamaha cannot do so. However, the sub can be connected via LFE and used with speakers set at Large in “Straight” mode if “Extra Bass” is turned on as this will duplicate the low frequencies from the front signal and send them to the sub as well.

If movies are being played on this setup, some tracks may prove too much for those speakers set at Large using “Extra Bass” to get a signal to the sub. Many would recommend a Small setting with an 80Hz crossover. But, to each their own.

There are a few options here and it’s fun to experiment. If subwoofer use in Pure Direct mode is a must, I’d set all incoming devices to output two channel stereo(PCM) to the receiver. I would configure the receiver to 7.2 Bi-Amp and set all channels, other than the fronts and sub, to None. Then, connect wires from the Bi-Amp speaker terminals to the subwoofer speaker terminals.This will result in a full range signal being sent to the fronts and sub while in Pure Direct mode and it can just be left there for everything. The knobs on the sub will be used to integrate the sound to one’s liking.

That is just one option and it really is just for playing everything in Pure Direct mode and getting the sub in the mix while doing so. Again, I think many will recommend Small front speaker settings with an 80Hz crossover and subwoofer connected via LFE. It will sound great but will not produce sound from the subwoofer in Pure Direct mode. Oh, and beware the “Extra Bass” feature when speakers are set at Small. Instead of just duplicating low frequencies and sending them to the sub as is done with the Large setting, “Extra Bass” applies a noisy bass boost to the speakers when set at Small.

 

[Trebdp83]

To clarify, one might think a signal would be applied to the sub if “Extra Bass” is On in Pure Direct mode since it duplicates the signal for the sub but Pure Direct mode disables the feature as do some Dolby and DTS processing features in this unit.

 

[tmk1986]

So, concerning the front pre outs, they should not be used when also using the corresponding speaker terminals. The Grotto manual does mention using them as one connection option using certain receivers but Yamaha advises against it with this particular receiver.

While a handful of receivers can make use of a subwoofer in Pure Direct mode when using the LFE connection, the Yamaha cannot do so. However, the sub can be connected via LFE and used with speakers set at Large in “Straight” mode if “Extra Bass” is turned on as this will duplicate the low frequencies from the front signal and send them to the sub as well.

If movies are being played on this setup, some tracks may prove too much for those speakers set at Large using “Extra Bass” to get a signal to the sub. Many would recommend a Small setting with an 80Hz crossover. But, to each their own.

There are a few options here and it’s fun to experiment. If subwoofer use in Pure Direct mode is a must, I’d set all incoming devices to output two channel stereo(PCM) to the receiver. I would configure the receiver to 7.2 Bi-Amp and set all channels, other than the fronts and sub, to None. Then, connect wires from the Bi-Amp speaker terminals to the subwoofer speaker terminals.This will result in a full range signal being sent to the fronts and sub while in Pure Direct mode and it can just be left there for everything. The knobs on the sub will be used to integrate the sound to one’s liking.

That is just one option and it really is just for playing everything in Pure Direct mode and getting the sub in the mix while doing so. Again, I think many will recommend Small front speaker settings with an 80Hz crossover and subwoofer connected via LFE. It will sound great but will not produce sound from the subwoofer in Pure Direct mode. Oh, and beware the “Extra Bass” feature when speakers are set at Small. Instead of just duplicating low frequencies and sending them to the sub as is done with the Large setting, “Extra Bass” applies a noisy bass boost to the speakers when set at Small.

phew, that’s a lot of information - thanks so much!
First question: where would I connect the sub via LFE if not (Front) Pre Out? Again, this is the black jack labeled “Subwoofer” underneath in case I didn’t make that clear.

Secondly, I think I like the idea of your bi-amp suggestion. I tend to prefer as little processing as possible, just because I like knowing, as much as I can, what’s happening at each step of the signal chain and modern receivers make that increasingly difficult. My question is: I’ve never bi-amped before and I don’t know which speaker terminals to use to do so. I understand setting incoming signals to stereo, so I’m good there, but is the 7.2 bi-amp configuration done in the AVR menu? Lastly, what am I setting the speaker size/crossover to in this scenario? I guess that would be irrelevant if I’m running Pure Direct?

 

[Trebdp83]

When I mention "Front" pre outs, I'm referring to the Front Speakers' FRONT pre out and not the SUBWOOFER's 1(FRONT) or 2(REAR) pre out. The SUBWOOFER 1(FRONT) and 2(REAR) pre outs are both LFE pre outs that send just low frequencies to the subwoofer if there are any to be sent based on the receiver's settings.

Setting the speakers at Large results in a full band signal being sent to them and no crossover setting is needed. They are essentially set at Large when in Pure Direct mode as well. The 7.2 Bi-Amp configuration is done in the receiver's setup menu. The Bi-Amp terminals to be use used are the terminals labeled "ZONE 2/ZONE 3/BI-AMP" at the end of the row of terminals. If going this way, you can also set the Subwoofer to None as you will not be sending a signal via LFE but a full range signal from the Bi-amp terminals.

 

[tmk1986]

When I mention "Front" pre outs, I'm referring to the Front Speakers' FRONT pre out and not the SUBWOOFER's 1(FRONT) or 2(REAR) pre out. The SUBWOOFER 1(FRONT) and 2(REAR) pre outs are both LFE pre outs that send just low frequencies to the subwoofer if there are any to be sent based on the receiver's settings.

Setting the speakers at Large results in a full band signal being sent to them and no crossover setting is needed. They are essentially set at Large when in Pure Direct mode as well. The 7.2 Bi-Amp configuration is done in the receiver's setup menu. The Bi-Amp terminals to be use used are the terminals labeled "ZONE 2/ZONE 3/BI-AMP" at the end of the row of terminals. If going this way, you can also set the Subwoofer to None as you will not be sending a signal via LFE but a full range signal from the Bi-amp terminals.
View attachment 55998

Great - that makes perfect sense! I didn’t even see the small “Bi-Amp” lettering on those terminals. So I’ll do the wiring, adjust manually on the sub, set 7.2 bi in the menu, and that’s about it (minus the incoming signal adjustments) since setting to Pure Direct should make any other speaker/crossover settings irrelevant.

 

[Trebdp83]

Any luck? Just to put my money where my mouth is, I setup my Yamaha RX-V6A just as I recommended for the RX-A2060. The Sub is running off of the Bi-Amp terminals and the receiver is in Pure Direct mode. It works just as it should. I ended up setting the Sub crossover knob at 80Hz with the Level knob at about 40%. If I set the Power Amp Assign back to basic, Bi-Amp terminals are disconnected and the Sub stops producing sound. Turn Bi-Amp back on and the Sub goes back into action. So, all is working as it should to get a signal to the Sub in Pure Direct Mode using this connection.

 

[tmk1986]

Any luck? Just to put my money where my mouth is, I setup my Yamaha RX-V6A just as I recommended for the RX-A2060. The Sub is running off of the Bi-Amp terminals and the receiver is in Pure Direct mode. It works just as it should. I ended up setting the Sub crossover knob at 80Hz with the Level knob at about 40%. If I set the Power Amp Assign back to basic, Bi-Amp terminals are disconnected and the Sub stops producing sound. Turn Bi-Amp back on and the Sub goes back into action. So, all is working as it should to get a signal to the Sub in Pure Direct Mode using this connection.

Just got home and got everything set up - looks like we’re golden! I tested in the same way switching the amp config and can verify sub engagement/disengagement. Thank you so much for your help! Now I just need to tweak 25hz level and overall sub level.

 

[3db]

There is no Direct on the Yamaha 2060. There is Pure Direct and Straight. On two channel sources there is no sub output in Pure Direct. If you want sub output with a two channel source, I would use "Straight". That way you get sub output and bass management. In Straight you can choose to use YPAO eq filters if you want. Flat, Natural, or Front. Or choose "Through" to bypass YPAO.

As far as the term Front or Rear, that is in the sub menu when you are using two subs. I think it has to do with the placement of the subs in the room. Like if you have one sub in the front of the room and the other sub in the back. I believe. I use the Yamaha 3060, but I only have one subwoofer.

Im late coming to this party so my apologies here. Pure Direct is good for analog inputs ONLY in that bass management will set the mains to large thus eliminating any bass to the sub if one is connecting the sub via LFE out (sub out) of the AVR. However, if the signal is being fed to one of the AVR's digital inputs, the sub is still going to be used in Pure Direct. I would have to test to see if the mains are set to large in PD if running through a digital input. PEQ is turned off in Pure Direct regardless of analog or digital input.

The term Straight as its used in Yamaha speak is simply matching the number of output channels being used with respect to the input. If one is using 5.1 in on the straight setting, then the AVR will output 5.1. If the input is only 2.1 or 3.0, then the AVR will output only 2.1 or 3.0 respectively. There is no muxxing of channels in Straight. Bass Management and PEQ are still in effect.