Sub Active in Pure Direct

[lovinthehd]

Got it, so just Direct.

I use the terms direct and pure direct interchangeably on my avrs as that just means the front panel lcd circuit is turned off in "pure" as opposed to just "direct". I generally listen to 2ch (whether digital or analog) in stereo mode enabling eq and bass management, but sometimes upmix it to multich too. Mostly I'll reserve direct to very loud listening sessions on really well recorded music. Even when all I had was vinyl back in the day, I had my graphic eq and dbx dynamic range expander as well as a receiver with a loudness contour....so I could make things sound more pleasing to me as I wanted/needed....nice to have options, particularly at lower volumes due the way we hear....

 

[tmk1986]

I use the terms direct and pure direct interchangeably on my avrs as that just means the front panel lcd circuit is turned off in "pure" as opposed to just "direct". I generally listen to 2ch (whether digital or analog) in stereo mode enabling eq and bass management, but sometimes upmix it to multich too. Mostly I'll reserve direct to very loud listening sessions on really well recorded music. Even when all I had was vinyl back in the day, I had my graphic eq and dbx dynamic range expander as well as a receiver with a loudness contour....so I could make things sound more pleasing to me as I wanted/needed....nice to have options, particularly at lower volumes due the way we hear....

I unplugged the RCA cables last night and left in just the LFE connection. I played some vinyl in stereo and it does sound much fuller, so thank you @lovinthehd and @XEagleDriver. Out of curiosity @lovinthehd, why do you set to Direct for loud sessions, simply to bypass the sub at these levels?

Another point - I had previously been using Straight with movies, since I told the AVR in the setup that I’m only running 2.1 currently, my thought being that the AVR would downmix into 2.1 but Following our conversation, I’m thinking maybe I’m off base there…

 

[lovinthehd]

I unplugged the RCA cables last night and left in just the LFE connection. I played some vinyl in stereo and it does sound much fuller, so thank you @lovinthehd and @XEagleDriver. Out of curiosity @lovinthehd, why do you set to Direct for loud sessions, simply to bypass the sub at these levels?

Another point - I had previously been using Straight with movies, since I told the AVR in the setup that I’m only running 2.1 currently, my thought being that the AVR would downmix into 2.1 but Following our conversation, I’m thinking maybe I’m off base there…

Well I'm a bit confused by what you mean by unplugged the rca cables and left in the lfe.....what jacks on the avr specifically were connected to what inputs on the sub via rca cables and likewise what was the LFE connection then?

In direct I don't apply eq primarily, such as a loudness contour or basic Audyssey eq, just not needed at higher volume levels. I don't do that loud that often, either....trying to be nicer to my ears these days. I get lost with Yamaha's terminology such as Straight and the others they use....they're a bit different from the other avr manufacturers with terminology.

 

[tmk1986]

Well I'm a bit confused by what you mean by unplugged the rca cables and left in the lfe.....what jacks on the avr specifically were connected to what inputs on the sub via rca cables and likewise what was the LFE connection then?

In direct I don't apply eq primarily, such as a loudness contour or basic Audyssey eq, just not needed at higher volume levels. I don't do that loud that often, either....trying to be nicer to my ears these days. I get lost with Yamaha's terminology such as Straight and the others they use....they're a bit different from the other avr manufacturers with terminology.

The "Pre Out (Front)" was connected to the sub via RCA (in accordance with manual), and I still have the LFE connected to "Pre Out Front (Subwoofer)".
I gotcha on your Direct usage. I have the volume control EQ turned off and YPAO (room correction term from Yamaha) EQ set to flat for all inputs, so that shouldn't come into play for me. As far as I know, the only EQ that should be present is what's applied from measuring distance to my speakers using the mic.

 

[lovinthehd]

The "Pre Out (Front)" was connected to the sub via RCA (in accordance with manual), and I still have the LFE connected to "Pre Out Front (Subwoofer)".
I gotcha on your Direct usage. I have the volume control EQ turned off and YPAO (room correction term from Yamaha) EQ set to flat for all inputs, so that shouldn't come into play for me. As far as I know, the only EQ that should be present is what's applied from measuring distance to my speakers using the mic.

The front pre-outs as in L/R speaker pre-outs? Makes no sense to connect those to a sub, maybe that's why I got confused....would have to go reread your posts in any case. Yes, just use subwoofer pre-out to sub's input (the specific LFE input if the sub has one is generally the way to go as that will bypass the sub's internal low pass filter, but it never hurts to dial the sub's low pass filter to max value, might be poorly labeled as a crossover). I'm not sure what volume control EQ means particularly, and if you're using YPAO that is eq, and flat usually just means it's aimed to provide a flat frequency response (with the eq as opposed to actual response from speakers/room alone). Just settings for delay (distance) and level aren't considered eq, tho.

 

[tmk1986]

The front pre-outs as in L/R speaker pre-outs? Makes no sense to connect those to a sub, maybe that's why I got confused....would have to go reread your posts in any case. Yes, just use subwoofer pre-out to sub's input (the specific LFE input if the sub has one is generally the way to go as that will bypass the sub's internal low pass filter, but it never hurts to dial the sub's low pass filter to max value, might be poorly labeled as a crossover). I'm not sure what volume control EQ means particularly, and if you're using YPAO that is eq, and flat usually just means it's aimed to provide a flat frequency response (with the eq as opposed to actual response from speakers/room alone). Just settings for delay (distance) and level aren't considered eq, tho.

If you look at a pic of the back of the receiver, you'll see the RCA pre outs that I had connected to the sub before last night (these are separate from speaker outs). Low level filter dial is all the way up, so I should be good there.

Yamaha offers adaptive volume control that I don't bother with, and once you've run the YPAO calibration, you can't turn off the Parametric EQ entirely, only choose between Manual, Flat, Front, Natural and Through. Here's a quote from another user on another forum explaining the differences: "You are in fact given several PEQ options and not just the one. Which PEQ option were you using? There is the option to set it to THROUGH which which bypass any EQ manipulation as well as a FLAT, NATURAL or FRONT setting. The latter of these tries to EQ the speakers relative to the measured EQ of yur front stereo pair. FLAT is based upon a FLAT response while NATURAL gives you a slighly less rigid interpretation of the FLAT setting. In a perfect world the FLAT setting would theoretically be the best to use with music because this is the closest you'd get to how a studio would be EQ'd. This does indeed result in ahigher boas in favour of the higher frequencies though so some prefer to use the NATURAL option instead."

 

[lovinthehd]

If you look at a pic of the back of the receiver, you'll see the RCA pre outs that I had connected to the sub before last night (these are separate from speaker outs). Low level filter dial is all the way up, so I should be good there.

Yamaha offers adaptive volume control that I don't bother with, and once you've run the YPAO calibration, you can't turn off the Parametric EQ entirely, only choose between Manual, Flat, Front, Natural and Through. Here's a quote from another user on another forum explaining the differences: "You are in fact given several PEQ options and not just the one. Which PEQ option were you using? There is the option to set it to THROUGH which which bypass any EQ manipulation as well as a FLAT, NATURAL or FRONT setting. The latter of these tries to EQ the speakers relative to the measured EQ of yur front stereo pair. FLAT is based upon a FLAT response while NATURAL gives you a slighly less rigid interpretation of the FLAT setting. In a perfect world the FLAT setting would theoretically be the best to use with music because this is the closest you'd get to how a studio would be EQ'd. This does indeed result in ahigher boas in favour of the higher frequencies though so some prefer to use the NATURAL option instead."

Sounds like the adaptive volume is the loudness contour that varies with volume (YPAO Volume might be the terminology?)? YPAO itself isn't PEQ based I thought, could be wrong (was thinking more IIR/FIR based). I think you can on some models use PEQ in conjunction with results of running YPAO. Flat in Audyssey terms means aiming the eq to provide a flat frequency response, would assume Yamaha uses that similarly, but it's still eq based. Through sounds like a direct mode of some sort. Natural sounds like perhaps it rolls of the very highest frequencies? Front sounds like what some manufacturers using Audyssey call "L/R Bypass" (not a particular Audyssey product, tho). Like I said, in general I just don't speak Yamaha. A guy who does speak Yamaha very well tho is @Trebdp83

 

[tmk1986]

Sounds like the adaptive volume is the loudness contour that varies with volume (YPAO Volume might be the terminology?)? YPAO itself isn't PEQ based I thought, could be wrong (was thinking more IIR/FIR based). I think you can on some models use PEQ in conjunction with results of running YPAO. Flat in Audyssey terms means aiming the eq to provide a flat frequency response, would assume Yamaha uses that similarly, but it's still eq based. Through sounds like a direct mode of some sort. Natural sounds like perhaps it rolls of the very highest frequencies? Front sounds like what some manufacturers using Audyssey call "L/R Bypass" (not a particular Audyssey product, tho). Like I said, in general I just don't speak Yamaha. A guy who does speak Yamaha very well tho is @Trebdp83

@Trebdp83 any chance you care to shed some light?

 

[Trebdp83]

Oh, boy. The last time I dabbled in the Pure Direct topic things got s#%ty. Is this strictly a 2.1 channel affair?

 

[lovinthehd]

I did get a chance to look at the rear panel finally and check out the sub pre-outs. Basically there's number 1 and 2, what front or rear have to do with sub pre-outs I dunno, Yamaha can be weird. I generally with one sub would just use sub pre-out 1. If I had gain issues with the sub I'd use both and use both inputs on the sub.

 

[tmk1986]

Oh, boy. The last time I dabbled in the Pure Direct topic things got s#%ty. Is this strictly a 2.1 channel affair?

LOL, I can easily believe that. Yes, this is a 2.1 channel affair that I'm looking for clarification on. I have Elac Debut B6.2's and a Martin Logan Grotto i running from a Yamaha RX-A2060. I have a Technics SL-1700 fed into the phono input of the Yamaha. I'm looking to optimize for 2 channel music playback as much as possible. My Elac's can handle down to around 44hz.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Oh, boy. The last time I dabbled in the Pure Direct topic things got s#%ty. Is this strictly a 2.1 channel affair?

Fukk…..

 

[lovinthehd]

Fukk…..

I was kinda hoping you'd tune in about Yamaha terminology

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I was kinda hoping you'd tune in about Yamaha terminology

Lol. Well ya know I can’t help myself!!!

 

[little wing]

There is no Direct on the Yamaha 2060. There is Pure Direct and Straight. On two channel sources there is no sub output in Pure Direct. If you want sub output with a two channel source, I would use "Straight". That way you get sub output and bass management. In Straight you can choose to use YPAO eq filters if you want. Flat, Natural, or Front. Or choose "Through" to bypass YPAO.

As far as the term Front or Rear, that is in the sub menu when you are using two subs. I think it has to do with the placement of the subs in the room. Like if you have one sub in the front of the room and the other sub in the back. I believe. I use the Yamaha 3060, but I only have one subwoofer.

 

[lovinthehd]

There is no Direct on the Yamaha 2060. There is Pure Direct and Straight. On two channel sources there is no sub output in Pure Direct. If you want sub output with a two channel source, I would use "Straight". That way you get sub output and bass management. In Straight you can choose to use YPAO eq filters if you want. Flat, Natural, or Front. Or choose "Through" to bypass YPAO.

As far as the term Front or Rear, that is in the sub menu when you are using two subs. I think it has to do with the placement of the subs in the room. Like if you have one sub in the front of the room and the other sub in the back. I believe. I use the Yamaha 3060, but I only have one subwoofer.

What does it do with front/rear subs for processing, set one's polarity differently or ?

 

[little wing]

What does it do with front/rear subs for processing, set one's polarity differently or ?

I think it does. If you have multiple subwoofers I believe there is also a mono setting. Were both subs get the same signal at the same time. If I'm not mistaken I think gene recommended using the monaural setting, but I'd have to double check that to confirm.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think it does. If you have multiple subwoofers I believe there is also a mono setting. Were both subs get the same signal at the same time. If I'm not mistaken I think gene recommended using the monaural setting, but I'd have to double check that to confirm.

Well subs are almost always mono....but I thought I remembered some goofy Yamaha thing about L/R subs (but yet not stereo signal, just mono LFE/redirected bass).

 

[snakeeyes]

Has 3 options:

Both Mono (1 & 2 can be set at different distances)

Stereo (Left side of room and Right side of room)

Front Back (Front of room and Back of room)


So guessing that means what they are going for is if speakers set small and crossover setup high at 120hz or 200hz , those upper frequencies may localize left right or front back during a movie

That’s how it was explained on AVS Forum at least.

Just use the Mono setting and skip the other ones….

 

[lovinthehd]

Has 3 options:

Both Mono (1 & 2 can be set at different distances)

Stereo (Left side of room and Right side of room)

Front Back (Front of room and Back of room)


So guessing that means what they are going for is if speakers set small and crossover setup high at 120hz or 200hz , those upper frequencies may localize left right or front back during a movie

That’s how it was explained on AVS Forum at least.

Just use the Mono setting and skip the other ones….

But stereo is somewhat a misnomer, yes? In that it's still a mono signal to each sub. Does Yamaha still do this? Seems goofy.