Help! I need to pick a new Subwoofer and speakers!

M

mvp

Junior Audioholic
Since the reciever is still good as some members cab attest don't change that yet save the money for the sub and speakers

We really could use some pics of the room and where the speakers go. The reason we are recommending towers is because it's a big room. But we really need to see pictures and where the speakers would go before we can recommend anything
Uploading pictures of the room now:
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M

mvp

Junior Audioholic
Your receiver while a bit outdated is still very capable. If it still does everything you need and the connections are up to date enough for you then you can keep right on using it. It also has a version of Audyssey MultEQ that will help you dial your new sub(s) in and get the timing right. Provided you still have the setup mic that is.

So, assuming you're going to continue using the same receiver it sounds like you just need to focus on speakers and subs. I would look at lowering those 9' high front speakers tho. As to form factor I mean the same small cube like build. Would you consider larger floor standing or books on stands?
While I could get a tower or large floor standing speakers, I don't think it would suit the layout of the room. Plus I have a dog and might be getting a puppy in the next year or so and I wouldn't want it getting knocked over with a rambunctious puppy. I just posted pictures of the room. Do you see what I mean about the layout? There is no were to put a speaker on the front left of the back right (on the floor).
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
The ported did produce more sounds/bass (although of lower quality) so that provides some sense of the difference between sealed and ported.
No... no, no, no, lol. I spent a fair amount of time explaining to you there's really no difference between ported and sealed aside from size and bass capability. What you heard could have been, and likely was, different placement in the room or different setup or different volume settings or expectation bias or all of the above. You can't compare subs like that. There are so many different factors, and room placement is huuuuge. A sub can sound fantastic in one spot, move it over 2 feet and it turns into a boom box whether ported or sealed.

Sorry for getting wordy, but this is a myth that absolutely needs to die. The only way to really judge a sub is in your room, properly set up. Anything else and all bets are off. A demo room at an audio store who knows how things were set up. The ported sub you heard might have simply been turned up way louder than it should have been to show off how much boom it can make.

I think you need at a minimum a pair of good ported 12s, leaning toward a pair of 15s even. You can trust SVS, Hsu, Outlaw, Monoprice, Rhythmik... I know I'm forgetting a couple more, but those are some of the main guys. Any one of them make very capable subs and they're all going to sound pretty close to the same. Like I said earlier, we don't pick up on voicing or sound signatures with bass the same way we do with higher frequencies.

To summarize:
Ported and sealed are equal as far as sound quality. The only difference is size and bass extension.
In store demos are not a very good way to audition a sub. It may not even be set up correctly.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
While I could get a tower or large floor standing speakers, I don't think it would suit the layout of the room. Plus I have a dog and might be getting a puppy in the next year or so and I wouldn't want it getting knocked over with a rambunctious puppy. I just posted pictures of the room. Do you see what I mean about the layout? There is no were to put a speaker on the front left of the back right (on the floor).
I'm still catching up. I just quoted and got all wordy on your first post, lol.

I will say I have 2 labs since they were puppies and they've never knocked my speakers over. They're 4 and 5 now and still pretty rambunctious. Now they have bumped them and wiggled 'em but my speakers have a pretty decent base and aren't easy to knock over.

*It's a great looking room, and not impossible to work with!
**Darned fireplace tho!
 
M

mvp

Junior Audioholic
I spoke to a tech guy at SVS this evening. I sent him pictures of the room and the dimensions. He suggested getting the one SVS PB-3000, rather than two SVS PB-2000s, because he thinks I could use the added power/strength of the SVS PB-3000s for a room this size (especially since it is open to the kitchen, dining room, 2 story wide hallway, and the second floor) and while I can't afford 2 right now, I could start with one and get the second later. He thinks that that plan would be better than getting 2 SVS PB-2000s now and then finding out I would rather have had more power/sound. I guess that make sense, though a number of reviews of the best subwoofer for a large room point to the SVS PB-2000. Hmmm? Then of course there is the other brands you all mentioned. I must admit that I really don't understand all the details about the advanced units. I don't know why/how to customize the settings and I am not sure how and why to use all the features. I admit I will likely pay someone to set it up for me and I will never touch it after that. :) I will be too scared to mess something up.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Where do you think you'd place one or two big subs? Looking at your current placement, you might want to mock up something the size of the pb-3000 (or 2000) with some cardboard....see where it "fits"
 
M

mvp

Junior Audioholic
No... no, no, no, lol. I spent a fair amount of time explaining to you there's really no difference between ported and sealed aside from size and bass capability. What you heard could have been, and likely was, different placement in the room or different setup or different volume settings or expectation bias or all of the above. You can't compare subs like that. There are so many different factors, and room placement is huuuuge. A sub can sound fantastic in one spot, move it over 2 feet and it turns into a boom box whether ported or sealed.

Sorry for getting wordy, but this is a myth that absolutely needs to die. The only way to really judge a sub is in your room, properly set up. Anything else and all bets are off. A demo room at an audio store who knows how things were set up. The ported sub you heard might have simply been turned up way louder than it should have been to show off how much boom it can make.

I think you need at a minimum a pair of good ported 12s, leaning toward a pair of 15s even. You can trust SVS, Hsu, Outlaw, Monoprice, Rhythmik... I know I'm forgetting a couple more, but those are some of the main guys. Any one of them make very capable subs and they're all going to sound pretty close to the same. Like I said earlier, we don't pick up on voicing or sound signatures with bass the same way we do with higher frequencies.

To summarize:
Ported and sealed are equal as far as sound quality. The only difference is size and bass extension.
In store demos are not a very good way to audition a sub. It may not even be set up correctly.
Sorry, I should have explained that better. When I said that the ported subwoofer didn't sound as good, I was meaning the quality of that particular subwoofer was not very good. Not that all Porter subwoofers were of lower quality. And I know you can't really compare them, but I just wanted to hear what people were saying about ported putting out more sound to fill a larger room and I did see that. They only had one ported subwoofer at best buy and it was a very inexpensive one of a brand I had never heard of and no one here mentioned it. The guy who works there seemed to think if wasn't a very good one also. But that is not to say that all Ported are of low quality. :) sorry I wasn't more clear.
 
M

mvp

Junior Audioholic
I'm still catching up. I just quoted and got all wordy on your first post, lol.

I will say I have 2 labs since they were puppies and they've never knocked my speakers over. They're 4 and 5 now and still pretty rambunctious. Now they have bumped them and wiggled 'em but my speakers have a pretty decent base and aren't easy to knock over.

*It's a great looking room, and not impossible to work with!
**Darned fireplace tho!
Yes, the fireplace is in the way. That is where I would have put one of the tower speakers. That is the front left. The back right is just as bad. I have the doorway to my bedroom, and right next to that the staircase. Then that is the table, about 1 foot of space and then the bookcase. Not conducive to tower speakers. :(
 
M

mvp

Junior Audioholic
Where do you think you'd place one or two big subs? Looking at your current placement, you might want to mock up something the size of the pb-3000 (or 2000) with some cardboard....see where it "fits"
Yes, that is what I am going to do tonight. They are pretty big bases. What I was thinking was putting one just to the right of the TV stand (front right) and then put one on the far side of the bookcase (back left). What do you think?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'm more of the "subs go where they need to go" but that goes for my speakers, too....so your situation is just different than mine. Those positions you propose could work well, but they may not. Room modes can be weird.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Yes, the fireplace is in the way. That is where I would have put one of the tower speakers. That is the front left. The back right is just as bad. I have the doorway to my bedroom, and right next to that the staircase. Then that is the table, about 1 foot of space and then the bookcase. Not conducive to tower speakers. :(
Well that settles it. Time for an addition! One home cinema! Lol
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Sorry, I should have explained that better. When I said that the ported subwoofer didn't sound as good, I was meaning the quality of that particular subwoofer was not very good. Not that all Porter subwoofers were of lower quality. And I know you can't really compare them, but I just wanted to hear what people were saying about ported putting out more sound to fill a larger room and I did see that. They only had one ported subwoofer at best buy and it was a very inexpensive one of a brand I had never heard of and no one here mentioned it. The guy who works there seemed to think if wasn't a very good one also. But that is not to say that all Ported are of low quality. :) sorry I wasn't more clear.
Aw, it's okay. I have a tendency to overreact sometimes and the sub myths always get my hackles up because they're so pervasive.

You do have a very nice looking room, but the fireplace and other factors do make it a bit of a challenge. I don't disagree with SVS' suggestion to go bigger, but I'd still want dual subs and bang for buck a pair of VTF-3 MK5s would kill it in that room and not be as costly as a pair of PB3000s.
 
M

mvp

Junior Audioholic
Aw, it's okay. I have a tendency to overreact sometimes and the sub myths always get my hackles up because they're so pervasive.

You do have a very nice looking room, but the fireplace and other factors do make it a bit of a challenge. I don't disagree with SVS' suggestion to go bigger, but I'd still want dual subs and bang for buck a pair of VTF-3 MK5s would kill it in that room and not be as costly as a pair of PB3000s.
I am sure you are right. I wonder why the "best ported subwoofers" lists don't mention the VTF-3 MK5s or other HSU products. Are they not mainstream? Do you know where I could go to listen to one of those? I know, like you and others have said, that is not the best test as it will sound alot different in my room but I would still like to hear it some, maybe just to see how crisp the sound is and get confidence in buying the product. :)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I am sure you are right. I wonder why the "best ported subwoofers" lists don't mention the VTF-3 MK5s or other HSU products. Are they not mainstream? Do you know where I could go to listen to one of those? I know, like you and others have said, that is not the best test as it will sound alot different in my room but I would still like to hear it some, maybe just to see how crisp the sound is and get confidence in buying the product. :)
Pretty much all the "best of" lists are pure garbage that are trying to just get kickbacks from the Amazon affiliate program. A real "best of" subwoofer list would only have a few products that are available from Amazon. Hsu subs kill most of the garbage on Amazon.
 
K

kini

Full Audioholic
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I would still like to hear it some, maybe just to see how crisp the sound is
I am really getting some déjà vu here… lol. You are not going to get an idea of how crisp a subwoofer sounds in a random demo room. It is not going to happen. So much depends upon the room itself, setup technique and many other factors. At best you may get an idea IF it's properly set up, but at worst you will be completely, absolutely misled and reach a fallacious conclusion. What if it is an awesome subwoofer but sounds like garbage because the people who set it up have no clue what they're doing or even care about room interaction?
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
And by the way, for what it's worth, I own a pair of VTF - 3 MK5 subwoofers and they are as crispy as any other sub I have ever heard, and I have owned SVS sealed subwoofers. No regrets. None. Awesome subwoofers.
 
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