Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[shadyJ]

Basically, the idea is to sell the Russian people on the idea that the invasion in Ukraine is the same as WW2 on the basis that they are both great ideological wars against Nazi aggressors (this is my take on the report, yours may be different). This is so absurd on so many levels its hard to know where to start. First would be the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around as in WW2. Second, the notion that Ukraine is overrun with Nazis is ridiculous.

Operation Z: The Death Throes of an Imperial Delusion

Russia's military setbacks in Ukraine pose a new set of security challenges in Europe and beyond.

rusi.org

It's not unbelievable that so many people would believe such a stupid thing. Look how many dumbass Americans believed that the COVID-19 vaccination was Chinese mind-control nanobots. Look how many people died because they rejected scientific expertise. Look how many believe that the 2020 election was stolen. Look how many people feel for the Q anon garbage. Consider how well Russian propaganda has worked against so many Americans, and then think about how much more influential it would be in the motherland. The last few years have really opened my eyes to how fantastically stupid large groups of people can be, especially when they get stuck in their own echo chamber.

 

[Mr._Clark]

It's not unbelievable that so many people would believe such a stupid thing. Look how many dumbass Americans believed that the COVID-19 vaccination was Chinese mind-control nanobots. Look how many people died because they rejected scientific expertise. Look how many believe that the 2020 election was stolen. Look how many people feel for the Q anon garbage. Consider how well Russian propaganda has worked against so many Americans, and then think about how much more influential it would be in the motherland. The last few years have really opened my eyes to how fantastically stupid large groups of people can be, especially when they get stuck in their own echo chamber.

For clarity, when I wrote "This is so absurd" I was referring to the content of the messaging by the Russian government. I certainly didn't mean to imply that people in Russia wouldn't believe it on the basis that Americans are not susceptible to disinformation.

 

[GO-NAD!]

This report is long (the .pdf is 26 pages), but it has quite a bit of detailed information that I have not seen in most news reports. It appears to be well-documented. One of the main things is that the Russian government has largely succeeded in cutting off it's citizens access to outside information, and switched it's internal propaganda from selling the people on a short "special operation" to a protracted war.

According to this report, the Russian government's message to it's citizens now is that NATO is using Nazis in an attempt to wipe out Russia. Basically, the idea is to sell the Russian people on the idea that the invasion in Ukraine is the same as WW2 on the basis that they are both great ideological wars against Nazi aggressors (this is my take on the report, yours may be different). This is so absurd on so many levels its hard to know where to start. First would be the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around as in WW2. Second, the notion that Ukraine is overrun with Nazis is ridiculous.

>>>This Special Report seeks to examine how the interconnected challenges confronting Moscow are reshaping Russian policy, and the risks Moscow’s potential courses of action pose as the war enters a new phase. The foremost conclusion is that Russia is now preparing, diplomatically, militarily and economically, for a protracted conflict.<<<

Operation Z: The Death Throes of an Imperial Delusion

Russia's military setbacks in Ukraine pose a new set of security challenges in Europe and beyond.

rusi.org

Interesting read. I had no idea - of course, I had no reason to wonder about it - that much of Russia's most sophisticated military equipment relied on western-produced components.

 

[shadyJ]

For clarity, when I wrote "This is so absurd" I was referring to the content of the messaging by the Russian government. I certainly didn't mean to imply that people in Russia wouldn't believe it on the basis that Americans are not susceptible to disinformation.

I see. The Russian government has already got so many people believing such insane things that there is nothing too ridiculous for them. The quote by Voltaire is so true here: "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" (paraphrased). I think it could go further, that you don't necessarily have to believe absurdity, but merely parrot them as if they were true. As an example, look at all the malignant talking heads on Foxnews who got vaccinated first chance they could yet advised the public to avoid vaccines. Once they have you repeating their lies, you are all in. They own you totally at that point.

 

[haraldo]

It's time you learned the most popular phrases in Ukrainian, because after our victory we expect everyone to visit Kyiv, Odesa, Lviv and Chornobaivka

 

[SithZedi]

Interesting read. I had no idea - of course, I had no reason to wonder about it - that much of Russia's most sophisticated military equipment relied on western-produced components.

To a very good degree, what we're reading on the Russian government's censorship of the internet is also going on in China. Something we in the West should bear in mind now as well as in the future.

As for military equipment, if Russia survives this, they will just buy Chinese weapons going forward as part of their strategic partnership. The future will be complicated.

 

[Swerd]

I saw something interesting about why so many Russian tanks have blown up. They have a design flaw that leads to catastrophic 'Jack in the box' explosions where the turret is blown off, killing the crew. Russian T-72, T-80 & T-90 tanks have auto-loaders for the main gun that exposes several 125 mm rounds at a time in the turret. A single hit can ignite them all. The US has known about this since the 1991 Iraq war.

Russia's tanks in Ukraine have a 'jack-in-the-box' design flaw. And the West has known about it since the Gulf war | CNN

Russian tanks with their tops blown off are just the latest sign that Russia's invasion of Ukraine isn't going to plan.

www.cnn.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

I saw something interesting about why so many Russian tanks have blown up. They have a design flaw that leads to catastrophic 'Jack in the box' explosions where the turret is blown off, killing the crew. Russian T-72, T-80 & T-90 tanks have auto-loaders for the main gun that exposes several 125 mm rounds at a time in the turret. A single hit can ignite them all. The US has known about this since the 1991 Iraq war.

Russia's tanks in Ukraine have a 'jack-in-the-box' design flaw. And the West has known about it since the Gulf war | CNN

Russian tanks with their tops blown off are just the latest sign that Russia's invasion of Ukraine isn't going to plan.

www.cnn.com

I saw that too. I had wondered why this was happening with such great regularity.

A video was posted on twitter a few weeks ago which purports to show a turret that landed on a 5th floor of a residential building in Mariupol:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517235061657157634

 

[Swerd]

I wonder if the 'jack in the box' problem the tanks have is similar to other military weapons built in Russia?

Earlier, when that Russian missile cruiser, the Moskva, sank, I had commented about the Russian tendency to build weapons with plenty of striking power, but little protection. It apparently took only two anti-ship cruise missiles to cause irreversible fatal damage to a 12,000 ton surface combat ship. It was designed and built during the 1970s in the Soviet Union days.

I remember, distantly, a conversation I had back in my Navy days with a Chief (E-7, equivalent to an Army Sgt. First Class) who knew a thing or two about Soviet Navy surface ships. He claimed they were all about big guns & missiles, high speed, short range, and poor protection. He said they suffer from 'glass jaws'. This was at a time when the Navy was seeking more money from Congress for new ships, and they were making a big deal about the new aggressive-looking Soviet navy ships. I bet none of the admirals mentioned those 'glass jaws' to Congress.

 

[haraldo]

Elon Musk is doing amazing things

Elon Musk handed over Tesla Powerwall solar stations to Ukraine — today two ambulance stations in Borodyanka and Irpin have received them.

These solar panels and generators have become very popular in the United States. Powerwall's energy system has a high autonomy and provides backup power during power disconnections, said Minister of Digital Transformation Mykhaylo Fedorov

 

[haraldo]

There are almost no people left in the free world who do not understand that Russia's war against Ukraine is just the beginning.

The ultimate goal of Russia's leadership is not just to seize the territory of Ukraine, but to dismember the entire center and east of Europe and deal a global blow to democracy.

Therefore, the free world has the right to self-defense. And that is why it will help Ukraine even more.

 

[haraldo]

USA has evidence: Ukrainians who tried to surrender were executed by Russians near Donetsk — The Hill
We have reliable information that the Russian military unit operating on the outskirts of Donetsk executed Ukrainians who tried to surrender, not put them in custody, — announced the US Special Ambassador-at-Large for Global Criminal Justice, Justice Beth Van Schaak, at the UN meeting
According to her, this is a violation of the basic principle of the law of war: the prohibition of arbitrary punishment of civilians and combatants who capitulated, received injuries or other forms of disability.

 

[shadyJ]

There are almost no people left in the free world who do not understand that Russia's war against Ukraine is just the beginning.

The ultimate goal of Russia's leadership is not just to seize the territory of Ukraine, but to dismember the entire center and east of Europe and deal a global blow to democracy.

Therefore, the free world has the right to self-defense. And that is why it will help Ukraine even more.

Sadly, there are quite a few people who do not accept that this invasion is a war of aggression by Russia. Many people who lean hard right, a not insignificant number of folks in the USA, toe Moscow's line because they admire the authoritarian machismo of Putin's regime. It should be better communicated that this isn't just a war between nations but a war of ideologies, and it is a world war since so many liberal democracies are under attack world wide from these outright fascist forces. It's a shame that we are basically fighting world war 2 again, and for the same reasons by the same ideologies. Russia must be stomped into dust, and every shitbag who supports their political ideology must banished back into their caves the world over. Just because they don't wear swastikas doesn't mean they aren't nazis.

 

[haraldo]

 

[SithZedi]

When you see things like this being done by a government.

There are almost no people left in the free world who do not understand that Russia's war against Ukraine is just the beginning.

The ultimate goal of Russia's leadership is not just to seize the territory of Ukraine, but to dismember the entire center and east of Europe and deal a global blow to democracy.

Therefore, the free world has the right to self-defense. And that is why it will help Ukraine even more.

Thanks for posting the Solar panel story. First Starlink and now this.

Replace the word "Russia" with "Russia and China" and that's the story. Russia would not have invaded the Ukraine without their backstop. The free or Western world must wake up to that fact and that this war is the first step in a long term, slow grinding war or a big bang war one if someone makes a misstep. Paradoxically, if the free world turns to a wartime footing, the free world will become less free as nations do during wartime.

A Western realization with respect to China is the key but they have done a masterful job of co-opting politicians, corporations, and even sports leagues, i.e. the NBA.

 

[highfigh]

I could be wrong but I thought (at least initially) that the USAF wanted to retire it and Congress said no ?? Given its low cost to performance ratio I'm not surprised.

You're right- I had mis-remembered the ones who were in favor of retirement and was thinking about the ones who were trying to save it, including Sen John McCain. The link is from 2014- there we were in 2020 and after some good improvements, with the Air Force still trying to kill it.

McCain chides Air Force leaders over retirement of A-10 fleet

The senator said Congress has not received a plan on what aircraft might replace the A-10.

thehill.com

 

[SithZedi]

Interesting article I received. Parts were translated for me but it speaks of Norway's new attitude to the Russian threat.

Flere militære øvelser i Nord-Norge på grunn av krigen i Ukraina

Hærsjefen varsler om økt militær øvelsesaktivitet i nordområdene. Forsvarsministeren sier at han ikke har noen spesielle forventninger til reaksjoner fra Russland på det.

www.nrk.no

You would think with all this going on, someone could finally convince Ireland to join NATO.

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[highfigh]

To a very good degree, what we're reading on the Russian government's censorship of the internet is also going on in China. Something we in the West should bear in mind now as well as in the future.

As for military equipment, if Russia survives this, they will just buy Chinese weapons going forward as part of their strategic partnership. The future will be complicated.

What they buy will depend on who's in charge after this is over. As long as the 'old guard' is removed, I think there's hope that Russia can become a better citizen of the World. NK government is still a pile of poop because the leaders are following a line of succession that's genetic- end that and they will likely become much more willing to embrace a peaceful existence.

 

[SithZedi]

What they buy will depend on who's in charge after this is over. As long as the 'old guard' is removed, I think there's hope that Russia can become a better citizen of the World. NK government is still a pile of poop because the leaders are following a line of succession that's genetic- end that and they will likely become much more willing to embrace a peaceful existence.

Agree. In the long term, a post Putin Russia will have more "in common" on a civilization basis with the West than with China. To China, Russia is a means to an end. Easy access to natural resources, some technology, and part of the bridge to the European markets. Of course, that will depend on what Russia looks like after and on how the West handles it strategically.
*I say China but it's the CCP. I have many Chinese friends that give me crap about that.

 

[highfigh]

Agree. In the long term, a post Putin Russia will have more "in common" on a civilization basis with the West than with China. To China, Russia is a means to an end. Easy access to natural resources, some technology, and part of the bridge to the European markets. Of course, that will depend on what Russia looks like after and on how the West handles it strategically.
*I say China but it's the CCP. I have many Chinese friends that give me crap about that.

It's usually the governments that are the problem- the people generally don't want this crap.