Help with subwoofer connection

[blk00ss]

I'm new here. I'm not an expert, but I can typically hook stuff up and make it work. I've got an odd situation with a new subwoofer.

I have an old Denon 5.1 system. It includes a powered 6.5 subwoofer in a ported enclosure. It works fine, in fact it amazes me to this day how strong it actually sounds. Last week I decided I wanted to upgrade my subwoofer and decided to go budget friendly with the Dayton sub-1000 (10 inch powered sub). It got delivered yesterday so I unhook the RCA from the old subwoofer (top pic) and plug into the red mono (bottom pic) of the new sub and nothing. The new sub has no power and I have to crank the gain to 100 to get any sort of bass. It should be destroying my little 6.5, but it isn't. Keep in mind I can simply unplug the RCA from the new sub and put it right back into the old small sub and I have plenty of bass. I've been on the phone with tech support and we have tried everything. I even tried running red/white from the pre amp out from my Denon (AVRx1200W) into the red/ white RCA on back of sub and that produced nothing at all. What I find even more weird is I can hook red/white from my Ipad headphone jack directly into the sub and it bumps, hard. Based on their instructions I should be able to run my existing single RCA directly into red mono and it should operate like the old, but stronger. We've also tried the whole small vs large speakers etc, but again, nothing gets this new sub to work. They've offered to send me a replacement, but I'm concerned the same issue will exist. Hoping someone can help. Thanks

 

[ryanosaur]

You’ll need to post up info about your denon 5.1 model, I think.
Sometimes those complete systems aren’t meant to mix and match.

 

[lovinthehd]

You normally don't just swap subs, you need to calibrate the levels to account for gain differences between the subs, altho it sounds like your situation is a bit extreme.....what is the sub level in the avr set to? Altho it usually doesn't take full gain on a sub, usually it's the other way around, that it needs to be on the lower side....but depends on the sub amp.

 

[blk00ss]

You’ll need to post up info about your denon 5.1 model, I think.
Sometimes those complete systems aren’t meant to mix and match.

What do you need to know? its the old DHT 683XP...but I upgraded the receiver to the X1200w a few years ago. I don't believe this system is limiting the ability to add this sub seeing as how I've also upgraded the receiver recently. It can be mixed and matched because both the upgraded receiver (x1200w) as well as the 683 it originally came with years ago are both AV receivers you could purchase separately. Its not one of those cheesy Samsung type 5.1 systems with a DVD player they used to sell. It is upgradeable

 

[blk00ss]

You normally don't just swap subs, you need to calibrate the levels to account for gain differences between the subs, altho it sounds like your situation is a bit extreme.....what is the sub level in the avr set to? Altho it usually doesn't take full gain on a sub, usually it's the other way around, that it needs to be on the lower side....but depends on the sub amp.

I tried that as well. In fact last night I went through the whole audyssey setup. Still nada. It literally seems to be connection related. And correct me if I'm wrong, I shouldn't need to go from subwoofer out and split to a red/ white to get the signal, right? I mean there own instruction says bring subwoofer out RCA and plug it into the red mono

 

[lovinthehd]

I tried that as well. In fact last night I went through the whole audyssey setup. Still nada. It literally seems to be connection related. And correct me if I'm wrong, I shouldn't need to go from subwoofer out and split to a red/ white to get the signal, right? I mean there own instruction says bring subwoofer out RCA and plug it into the red mono

Normally one connection is sufficient, you can get a bit more gain by using both inputs on the sub, tho. It's worth a try in cases like yours tho. I've not heard that the Dayton subs have a gain issue but haven't used one either.....but I'm thinking something's off with the sub unless you're saying with another device you can get normal volume from the Dayton sub?

 

[ryanosaur]

Is the sub1000 new? Perhaps it’s borked. *shrugs

 

[blk00ss]

Normally one connection is sufficient, you can get a bit more gain by using both inputs on the sub, tho. It's worth a try in cases like yours tho. I've not heard that the Dayton subs have a gain issue but haven't used one either.....but I'm thinking something's off with the sub unless you're saying with another device you can get normal volume from the Dayton sub?

Yeah, I plug a headphone cable that splits into red/ white directly from my Ipad directly into red/white on the sub, play a song or action movie clip on Ipad and it hits...hard

 

[blk00ss]

Is the sub1000 new? Perhaps it’s borked. *shrugs

Yes, as I mentioned I bought it last week and it arrived yesterday

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, I plug a headphone cable that splits into red/ white directly from my Ipad directly into red/white on the sub, play a song or action movie clip on Ipad and it hits...hard

So same with your old sub with this other device, just the Dayton and your avr don't like each other?

 

[ryanosaur]

May or may not make a difference, but you should turn the crossover knob all the way up if using it with an AVR with bass management. Otherwise you have dueling crossovers working.

I know it sounds silly, but perhaps unplug everything for 5 minutes, reconnect and try again.

One other thought, is it possible the cable has a flaw in it... you just got unlucky?

 

[blk00ss]

So same with your old sub with this other device, just the Dayton and your avr don't like each other?

That's what it seems like, which makes no sense. I should be able to plug it in and it work. I realize it would need calibrating, but I shouldn't have to crank the gain to 100 and still hear very little to no bass. I've been all through the settings even after using audyssey again. I've tried changing LFE to LFE + main and literally same results.

But that's why I was wondering...my old sub has 1 input. Its that single RCA that comes out of the "subwoofer" output on my receiver. So based on my research I should be able to keep the "subwoofer" out on receiver, use the same RCA single, but plug it into the red mono on the new sub and it should be great. But it isn't

 

[blk00ss]

May or may not make a difference, but you should turn the crossover knob all the way up if using it with an AVR with bass management. Otherwise you have dueling crossovers working.

I know it sounds silly, but perhaps unplug everything for 5 minutes, reconnect and try again.

One other thought, is it possible the cable has a flaw in it... you just got unlucky?

Did that as well. Still weak. And I don't think its the cable. As I mentioned, I can literally unplug the cable from the new sub and plug it into my old and BOOM, bass is there. But its gone the second I plug it into the new sub

 

[lovinthehd]

That's what it seems like, which makes no sense. I should be able to plug it in and it work. I realize it would need calibrating, but I shouldn't have to crank the gain to 100 and still hear very little to no bass. I've been all through the settings even after using audyssey again. I've tried changing LFE to LFE + main and literally same results.

But that's why I was wondering...my old sub has 1 input. Its that single RCA that comes out of the "subwoofer" output on my receiver. So based on my research I should be able to keep the "subwoofer" out on receiver, use the same RCA single, but plug it into the red mono on the new sub and it should be great. But it isn't

Unless the output level on your other device is simply way higher than the avr...but if the subs are about the same on one device but not on the other, I agree, doesn't make sense....

 

[blk00ss]

Unless the output level on your other device is simply way higher than the avr...but if the subs are about the same on one device but not on the other, I agree, doesn't make sense....

Do you think it could honestly be the difference between using a single into red mono vs two RCA input red and white? Because when I plug my ipad to it, its a single out of the headphone jack and then it splits into red/white so I hook to sub via both red and white

But I just don't see how plugging into red and white verses RCA to red mono ONLY could be so drastically different.

 

[-Jim-]

It could be the mono (Red) input on the Dayton is faulty. For grins, try plugging into both, or at least the L (white) Line input; and advise.

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you think it could honestly be the difference between using a single into red mono vs two RCA input red and white? Because when I plug my ipad to it, its a single out of the headphone jack and then it splits into red/white so I hook to sub via both red and white

But I just don't see how plugging into red and white verses RCA to red mono ONLY could be so drastically different.

It can be a 6dB gain advantage to use both inputs on the sub....

 

[blk00ss]

It could be the mono (Red) input on the Dayton is faulty. For grins, try plugging into both, or at least the L (white) Line input; and advise.

I did also try plugging into white versus red mono. NO real change. It just so bizarre because it rips when I plug my ipad directly into it using a single RCA to splitter red/ white. Maybe I should try and find an RCA y connector local just to see.

 

[blk00ss]

Update...so I went and bought an RCA y splitter. It seemed to help a little. I also went back through the settings and changed some things as well as did Audyssey setup again. Its better. But here is what I don't get. The sub pretty much has to be at the 12 o'clock position to hear any low end. If I put the little 6.5 ported sub at 12 o'clock and listen to the same stuff, the 6.5 has way more grunt and is just much louder. And based on size and specs, it shouldn't be in my opinion.

Just for curiosity I tried again to run the same song straight from my ipad directly to both subs. The new 10 inch hits hard. But the 2nd I plug it into the Denon via the subwoofer out, I lose the grunt. I can crank it up and it'll be loud and hit hard, but it does not like the Denon receiver. But I have to set the level DB way up and the knob on back has to be at 12 o'clock position or even higher. Why? A subwoofer out is a subwoofer out pretty much on any and all AV receivers. How can Denon's be such a weak signal. It makes no sense. Let me rephrase that...why does the signal seem weak on this Dayton sub. Its not that way with the Denon 6.5. They're supposed to send me a replacement. I guess we'll see.

 

[ryanosaur]

You have to understand that there is no standardization in the systems you are using. It could be one has a higher input sensitivity than the other. (Remember how I described that HTIB systems can have some surprises in how they operate? )
Likewise, a properly designed powered subwoofer will balance the Driver Sensitivity and the Amp in a way that ensures that the system as a whole works. If one component is different, people immediately notice and say things like "I have to turn the gain up more."
whether you use o'clock or percentages, gain levels are specific to the Subwoofer and how you have it connected, to what, and so many other variables. (Like perhaps your iPad at full volume is delivering a higher voltage signal than the AVR.)
Comparing such things is very difficult without much more specific information.