Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Even Putin whines about "cancel culture" :rolleyes:
He doesn't seem to like it, at all. Maybe he could get his daughters to help him deal with it.
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
If the Biden administration was insistent the Russians were invading, and Nuland, a member of his administration via the State Department, stated that it was a concern for the Russians to get their hands on the contents in the biolabs, than it stands to reason to ask why they were not cleared of potentially harmful contents or dismantled pre Russian invasion.

Why did this happen and who is at fault so this is not repeated? That's the followup article. Was it the Ukrainians themselves, the US, who? Ukrainians have enough on their hands already not have to deal with a biolab leak that could have been preventable.
Why weren't the labs cleared? Maybe because the US government doesn't actually own or control the labs.

Why did it happen? Maybe because the Ukrainian authorities were whistling in the dark as to Russian intentions.

Fault? Well, one could blame Ukraine for not being sufficiently cautious, but that would be victim-blaming.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Why weren't the labs cleared? Maybe because the US government doesn't actually own or control the labs.

Why did it happen? Maybe because the Ukrainian authorities were whistling in the dark as to Russian intentions.

Fault? Well, one could blame Ukraine for not being sufficiently cautious, but that would be victim-blaming.
Let's all hope that nothing accidentally or intentionally gets released into the Ukrainian public.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
Let's all hope that nothing accidentally or intentionally gets released into the Ukrainian public.
I think Putin's intentions is to reduce the cities and the country to rumble. Then the Ukrainians will want peace and give Putin what he wants, the total rebuild of the old Soviet Union.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I think Putin's intentions is to reduce the cities and the country to rumble. Then the Ukrainians will want peace and give Putin what he wants, the total rebuild of the old Soviet Union.
Probably not his initial intention. He thought it would be "a mere matter of marching".* But, when it didn't work out that way, he petulantly decided to pulverize Ukraine.

*Thomas Jefferson's words regarding the conquest of Canada in 1812. I guess we're fortunate that the US didn't have modern aircraft, bombs, artillery and missiles at the time... ;)
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
I think Putin's intentions is to reduce the cities and the country to rumble. Then the Ukrainians will want peace and give Putin what he wants, the total rebuild of the old Soviet Union.
That's certainly one of the long term scenarios the world is facing. The largest issue that has emerged from this will be to see what China wants. Putin is junior partner in that new alliance and China will use him, or Russia, in what ever way serves their Belts and Roads plan.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
How would he make it worse? He's not in favor of cancel-culture.
He is a free-speech absolutist. While that is fine as a political stance, it is a problem when you control a commercial platform that can be used to spread misinformation.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
In the "for what it's worth" department, here are a couple twitter feeds by people claiming to be volunteers fighting in Ukraine. I don not know anything about these people other than what they post on twitter, but they strike me as being legitimate.


I think so, there has also been feeds, interviews and so on, withing the official telegram channel "Ukraine NOW", with people obviously being in Ukraine at the moment!
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I think Putin's intentions is to reduce the cities and the country to rumble. Then the Ukrainians will want peace and give Putin what he wants, the total rebuild of the old Soviet Union.
Does he have enough $$$ to rebuild Ukraine or just leave it a desolate sector.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Here's an interesting thread about the Russian BTGs in Ukraine. I don't know if this is 100% correct, but it seems plausible.

>>>(1) BTGs are simply battalion-sized, task organized combined arms teams. All major armies have done this since WWII.

(2) The Russian Army's current emphasis on BTGs (vice regiments/brigades) is due to a lack of available manpower - they were used an as expedient during the Chechen war that the Ministry of Defense adopted wholesale in 2013 as a manpower hedge.

(3) Russian Army BTGs and doctrine are built around firepower and mobility, at the expense of manpower.

(4) Western analysts believed that Russian BTGs were capable of networking long-range fires in real time (or near real time) i.e. the 2014 Zelenopillya strike.

(5) It turns out the BTGs can't actually do this. They cannot even communicate via secure means, much less target and strike quickly and effectively at long range. This negates much of their supposed combat power advantage.

(6) The Russian BTGs appear unable to execute competent combined arms tactics. This is a fundamental failure as combined arms have been the sine qua non of modern fire and movement tactics since WWI.

(7) This shows up big in the lack of effective infantry support. BTG infantry cannot prevent Ukrainian mechanized and light infantry anti-tank hunter/killer teams from attriting their AFV, IFV, and SP artillery. This is the primary job of infantry in tank units.

(8) It is not clear if this is due to ineffective infantry forces or insufficient numbers of them in the BTGs; probably both are true.

(9) The net result is that the BTGs lack the mass (i.e. infantry) necessary to take defended urban terrain by assault. At least, not at a reasonable cost in combat losses.

(10) The leanness of the BTG manning (~ 1,000 troops) means that they cannot sustain much attrition without suffering a marked decline in combat power and effectiveness.

(11) It will take a thorough analysis to determine if the performance of the BTGs is due to inherent flaws in Russian Army personnel and training or flaws in their doctrinal approach. Again, both are probably culpable.

(12) In any case, these problems are not likely to be remedied in the short term. Fixing them will take a major reform effort.<<<

 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Warlord
With all this crazyness, there is no-one actually going to moscow to push putler to the wall literally, I think it's a proof of lazyness from western leaders, people should go there, one by one to try everything they can.

Austria is maybe not best in class, as country is importing lots of gas and oil from russia, but at least they are going to moscow.....

Karl Nehammer is the first Western leader to meet with the russian president since the invasion

BERLIN — Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer said he had a “direct” and “tough” conversation with vladimir putler on Monday as he became the first Western leader to meet with the russian president since moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

Following their 75-minute meeting in moscow, Nehammer said that he had pressed for an immediate cease-fire and humanitarian corridors.

“This is not a friendly visit,” he said in a statement. “I have just come from Ukraine and have seen with my own eyes the immeasurable suffering caused by the russian war of aggression.”

The Austrian chancellor has conceded that the decision to visit moscow was contentious, but said he felt a duty to leave “no stone unturned” to stop hostilities and meet humanitarian needs. There was no joint news conference after the meeting, because of concerns in Vienna that it could be used for russian propaganda purposes.

Other European leaders have maintained telephone contact with putler but have not visited moscow in person. Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett visited the kremlin last month in an effort to act as a go-between.

Nehammer said he “informed” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and other European partners, including German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, of the moscow visit in advance, but it was unclear the extent to which it was coordinated.

An E.U. official and an E.U diplomat confirmed that the Austrian side had told Brussels of the plan to meet Putin, but they declined to comment further.

Austria has backed European sanctions against Russia, but it has been one of several E.U. countries that opposed adopting tougher measures on russian energy. It is dependent on moscow for 80 percent of its gas needs, and it has deep financial and commercial ties with the country. Austria’s finance minister, Magnus Brunner, last week dismissed the idea of sanctions in response to scenes emerging from Bucha, Ukraine — where russia has been accused of killing hundreds of residents during its month-long occupation — saying it was important to “keep a cool head.”

Nehammer said on Monday that he had made it clear to putler that sanctions would remain in place or be tightened for as long as people are dying in Ukraine. The E.U. “is as united on this issue as ever,” he said.

The moscow meeting came after a weekend visit by Nehammer to Ukraine, where he met with Zelensky and visited Bucha.

“We are militarily neutral, but have a clear position on the russian war of aggression against Ukraine,” Nehammer wrote on Twitter ahead of his meeting with putler. “It has to stop!”

kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the meeting was initiated by Austria.

Austrian Foreign Minister Alexander Schallenberg told Bloomberg News that it was an opportunity to send “a very clear political message” to Putin “that he is isolating russia, that he will lose this war morally.”

The foreign minister spoke on the sidelines of a meeting of the E.U. Foreign Affairs Council in Luxembourg.

The session with the Austrian chancellor was intended as a reality check for putler, to convey that “this war is a war that he cannot win morally: He has lost it already,” Schallenberg said. “Every voice that makes him understand how the world really looks like outside of the walls of the kremlin is, I believe, an important voice.”

Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer visits Bucha.jpg

Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer visits Bucha, Ukraine, on April 9, ahead of a meeting with russian President vladimir putler on Monday. (Dragan Tatic/Austrian Chancellery/Handout/EPA-EFE/REX/Shutterstock)

Source: Washington post
By Loveday Morris
Yesterday at 12:21 p.m. EDT
Robyn Dixon in moscow and Emily Rauhala and Quentin Ariès in Brussels contributed to this report.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
He is a free-speech absolutist. While that is fine as a political stance, it is a problem when you control a commercial platform that can be used to spread misinformation.
So, it should remain a 'shut down the people we disagree with by consensus" platform?

It's easy enough to check the facts of someone's comments but seriously, why would a forum want people to make statements of fact without some kind of info to back it up? THAT and the emotional reactions are the reasons disinformation is disseminated as widely as it is- people see something that resonates with them and they post it many, many times. Eventually, it's seen so many times that people take it as fact, when it still may be only opinions. IMO, all forums should post 'OPINIONS AREN'T FACTS" on every page.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
With all this crazyness, there is no-one actually going to moscow to push putler to the wall literally, I think it's a proof of lazyness from western leaders, people should go there, one by one to try everything they can.

Austria is maybe not best in class, as country is importing lots of gas and oil from russia, but at least they are going to moscow.....

Karl Nehammer is the first Western leader to meet with the russian president since the invasion

BERLIN — Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer said he had a “direct” and “tough” conversation with vladimir putler on Monday as he became the first Western leader to meet with the russian president since moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

Following their 75-minute meeting in moscow, Nehammer said that he had pressed for an immediate cease-fire and humanitarian corridors.

“This is not a friendly visit,” he said in a statement. “I have just come from Ukraine and have seen with my own eyes the immeasurable suffering caused by the russian war of aggression.”

The Austrian chancellor has conceded that the decision to visit moscow was contentious, but said he felt a duty to leave “no stone unturned” to stop hostilities and meet humanitarian needs. There was no joint news conference after the meeting, because of concerns in Vienna that it could be used for russian propaganda purposes.

Other European leaders have maintained telephone contact with putler but have not visited moscow in person. Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett visited the kremlin last month in an effort to act as a go-between.

Nehammer said he “informed” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and other European partners, including German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, of the moscow visit in advance, but it was unclear the extent to which it was coordinated.

An E.U. official and an E.U diplomat confirmed that the Austrian side had told Brussels of the plan to meet Putin, but they declined to comment further.

Austria has backed European sanctions against Russia, but it has been one of several E.U. countries that opposed adopting tougher measures on russian energy. It is dependent on moscow for 80 percent of its gas needs, and it has deep financial and commercial ties with the country. Austria’s finance minister, Magnus Brunner, last week dismissed the idea of sanctions in response to scenes emerging from Bucha, Ukraine — where russia has been accused of killing hundreds of residents during its month-long occupation — saying it was important to “keep a cool head.”

Nehammer said on Monday that he had made it clear to putler that sanctions would remain in place or be tightened for as long as people are dying in Ukraine. The E.U. “is as united on this issue as ever,” he said.

The moscow meeting came after a weekend visit by Nehammer to Ukraine, where he met with Zelensky and visited Bucha.

“We are militarily neutral, but have a clear position on the russian war of aggression against Ukraine,” Nehammer wrote on Twitter ahead of his meeting with putler. “It has to stop!”

kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the meeting was initiated by Austria.

Austrian Foreign Minister Alexander Schallenberg told Bloomberg News that it was an opportunity to send “a very clear political message” to Putin “that he is isolating russia, that he will lose this war morally.”

The foreign minister spoke on the sidelines of a meeting of the E.U. Foreign Affairs Council in Luxembourg.

The session with the Austrian chancellor was intended as a reality check for putler, to convey that “this war is a war that he cannot win morally: He has lost it already,” Schallenberg said. “Every voice that makes him understand how the world really looks like outside of the walls of the kremlin is, I believe, an important voice.”
I'm not sure this has anything to do with morality, in Putin's mind. It's all about being seen as mighty and powerful.

Also, I would think the West would go to Moscow if it was closer to the border. If they go by road, it takes too much time and makes them sitting ducks and if they fly, where would they land? I wouldn't bet on any guarantees of safety once on the ground.
 
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SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
I'm not sure this has anything to do with morality, in Putin's mind. It's all about being seen as mighty and powerful.
This reminds me of the quote Stalin allegedly made during WW2 in response to Churchill suggesting that Pope become associated with some of the post war decisions. It goes, "The Pope? How many divisions has he?".
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
So, it should remain a 'shut down the people we disagree with by consensus" platform?

It's easy enough to check the facts of someone's comments but seriously, why would a forum want people to make statements of fact without some kind of info to back it up? THAT and the emotional reactions are the reasons disinformation is disseminated as widely as it is- people see something that resonates with them and they post it many, many times. Eventually, it's seen so many times that people take it as fact, when it still may be only opinions. IMO, all forums should post 'OPINIONS AREN'T FACTS" on every page.
Since it's not a government organization, they can shut down whoever they want, if they deem it appropriate. And, since it takes more effort to fact check posts than to create and spread lies, it's easier to suspend repeat offenders.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Since it's not a government organization, they can shut down whoever they want, if they deem it appropriate. And, since it takes more effort to fact check posts than to create and spread lies, it's easier to suspend repeat offenders.
Agreed, it's a private corporation so they can do what they want. Since Musk didn't take the board seat, he is now free to buy over 15% of the shares. If he takes over the whole company than the shoe will be on the other foot. He or his management will get to define "free speech". If he wants to maximize return on his capital, he can go back to what Twitter said it was in its S1 IPO filing in 2013.

"Twitter is a global platform for public self-expression and conversation in real time. By developing a fundamentally new way for people to create, distribute and discover content, we have democratized content creation and distribution, enabling any voice to echo around the world instantly and unfiltered. "
 
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