Advice on Kef R11s or Martin Logan Motion XTI60

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm ignorant on this, hence my follow up question, using the Yamaha just as a pre amp for its connectivity (HDMI, optical, digital coax, and etc.) then and running the entire set of KEF R series speakers 5.0 system off the ATI amp?

For his Main Zone/Main HT system, he is using the RX-A4A only as an pre-pro or AVP and his five KEF R series speakers are powered by the ATI 5 Channel Amp.

For his SECOND ZONE (Polk R700 towers, 2Ch), the Yamaha RX-A4A is powering the Polk speakers.

 

[Michi70]

Why are you locked into just these two?
They aren't even really in the same category.

There are a lot of great Speaker out there if you are interested!

Magnolia had the KEF R11s for 20% off down to $2399 and the MLs for $1499 each.

 

[ryanosaur]

This is a values thing that you will have to decide for yourself, if you choose to shop at Magnolia.

I do not doubt that the KEF R11s are a good Speaker. To me, they are overpriced, even at 20% off. Yes they are well designed and perform admirably. You can likely use these for the next 10-20 years of your life.
At the same time, I think you can find better Speakers than the Motion 60XTis at their respective price point. The FR isn't as pretty looking, but they do sound good. ML is also a reputable company and they are likely well designed, too. And yes, you could keep these for at least 10 years, too.

Truthfully, between the two, cost no object I would take the KEFs.
I also passed these options up and kept shopping until I found something better, and yes, better exists.

Hence my statement... This comes down to your personal values.

 

[Michi70]

My advice:

Keep the Yamaha receiver.

Skip the ML speakers.

Consider KEF R7 or R5 and two subwoofers instead of the KEF R11. The R7 or R5 with two good subs will beat the R11s AND it will take a little of the load off or your receiver (since your receiver will no longer need to be powering the bass).

Or consider Revel F206 or F208.

Or consider the Philharmonic BMR tower: https://www.philharmonicaudio.com/

I did some reading over the last couple of days. Just some notes from what I found:

1. Neat info about the Philharmonic with the driver it uses. Listened to the sound. Neat DIY if you want or wait for the assembly. The woofer it uses seemed to be unique for what it does.

2. Looked at the Revel F206 and F208. Some felt the Revels were better for more open rooms and more suitable for home theater, while the KEFs were more for music and a a bit more focused over on the Audio Science website. There was a comparison on the R11s v the F208s as well. Read the KEF white paper for the R series.

3. The Revels and the BMRs have very nice cabinet bracing. I didn't see much about the cabinet bracing for the MLs.

4. I looked @ Erin's audio corner for his videos on the KEFs, Revels, and BMRs. Learned a lot. Watched his videos on what makes a good center channel also. He really liked the KEFQ650c and had a concern about the KEF R2c. Realized you don't necessarily need to match center channels with the same products line. The Klippel test was just outstanding as a benchmark to look at performance.

Good stuff. I appreciate it!

 

[ryanosaur]

He really liked the KEFQ650c

Be careful with that. He really liked the horizontal directivity.
The speaker itself has some other issues which need to be understood before jumping on it just because it has good dispersion characteristics.

 

[ryanosaur]

The woofer it uses seemed to be unique for what it does.

Back home, now... curious what you are commenting on here. Which BMR, the Monitor or Tower? (Ultimately there are 3 different Woffers, involved, the older Monitor uses a ScanSpeak Driver, the newer Monitor uses an SB Acoustics Ceramic Driver, and the Tower uses the monsterously awesome 8" Scan Speak Revelator.
All of these are good quality Drivers that perform very well at what they do.

 

[Michi70]

The Tower with the 8" Revelator.

 

[ryanosaur]

The Tower with the 8" Revelator.

ScanSpeak is a very reputable company with a long history of developing and building High End Drivers. (The Skaaning family also founded Audio Technology.)
That 8" Revelator is well suited to Transmission Line loading. It will also perform well in a vented box.
I'm pretty certain this is the right one here:

ScanSpeak 22W/8851T-00 8"Revelator Woofer

ScanSpeak 22W/8851T-00 8" Revelator Paper Cone Woofer- 222mm- 8 ohm Good for moderate-sized ported box

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

 

[ParisB]

I promise you will be happy with the R11's

 

[ryanosaur]

I promise you will be happy with the R11's

...or your money back!

 

[Michi70]

ScanSpeak is a very reputable company with a long history of developing and building High End Drivers. (The Skaaning family also founded Audio Technology.)
That 8" Revelator is well suited to Transmission Line loading. It will also perform well in a vented box.
I'm pretty certain this is the right one here:

ScanSpeak 22W/8851T-00 8"Revelator Woofer

ScanSpeak 22W/8851T-00 8" Revelator Paper Cone Woofer- 222mm- 8 ohm Good for moderate-sized ported box

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

Yup that is what I looked at

 

[Michi70]

...or your money back!

The one thing I did notice was the inflation going on from when these speakers were reviewed by SoundStage! Acess. They reviewed both speakers back within 6 months of each other from 8-2019 to 1-2020 and the price for the ML60Xti went up from $3499 pair to $3750 pair, a 7.2% increase. The KEF R11 went up from $4999 to $5999, a 20% increase. Wonder what other speaker lines have done prices due to inflation?

 

[ryanosaur]

The one thing I did notice was the inflation going on from when these speakers were reviewed by SoundStage! Acess. They reviewed both speakers back within 6 months of each other from 8-2019 to 1-2020 and the price for the ML60Xti went up from $3499 pair to $3750 pair, a 7.2% increase. The KEF R11 went up from $4999 to $5999, a 20% increase. Wonder what other speaker lines have done prices due to inflation?

The price increases started because of the issues shipping globally and difficulty sourcing parts.
Of course, it’s all part of the same problem…
It as affected pretty much everything at this point.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The one thing I did notice was the inflation going on from when these speakers were reviewed by SoundStage! Acess. They reviewed both speakers back within 6 months of each other from 8-2019 to 1-2020 and the price for the ML60Xti went up from $3499 pair to $3750 pair, a 7.2% increase. The KEF R11 went up from $4999 to $5999, a 20% increase. Wonder what other speaker lines have done prices due to inflation?

Everything has gone up in prices from speaker wires to amps/AVR/AVP to speakers/subs.

And they will continue to increase.

 

[Michi70]

Agreed!

I wonder what the sale prices were back 2 years ago. If they were 20% off MSRP for a sale back then.....

 

[Michi70]

For his Main Zone/Main HT system, he is using the RX-A4A only as an pre-pro or AVP and his five KEF R series speakers are powered by the ATI 5 Channel Amp.

For his SECOND ZONE (Polk R700 towers, 2Ch), the Yamaha RX-A4A is powering the Polk speakers.

What was your criteria to recommend the ATI amp? I see quite a few amps manufacturers being referenced in reviews. Parasound seems to be a common, along with Marantz, and of course McIntosh.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What was your criteria to recommend the ATI amp?

1. True High-end company - ATI owns Theta Digital and DataSat with $23K Pre-pros
2. 7YR Warranty. Only Bryston has a better warranty.
3. Excellent customer support
4. Hardcore amps
5. ATI make some amps that are affordable, unlike McIntosh

 

[lovinthehd]

What was your criteria to recommend the ATI amp? I see quite a few amps manufacturers being referenced in reviews. Parasound seems to be a common, along with Marantz, and of course McIntosh.

Seems your list of amp "manufacturers" is a bit short. In any case ATI makes good stuff...

 

[Michi70]

Agreed, it is as I'm new to that aspect for audio. I know there are many more out there. That's all I could think of at the moment

 

[Michi70]

1. True High-end company - ATI owns Theta Digital and DataSat with $23K Pre-pros
2. 7YR Warranty. Only Bryston has a better warranty.
3. Excellent customer support
4. Hardcore amps
5. ATI make some amps that are affordable, unlike McIntosh

I looked up the ATI amp you recommended to your friend, it was I think $2300. That's very affordable!