Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[Swerd]

You may be just honestly asking, but the phrase has been used and abused so often by people like Carlson, that it has become a dog whistle.

Also @Replicant 7 and @Mikado463

As an example of what GO-NAD! said, I saw a column this morning by Michael Gerson, where his subject was the absurd, clown-like behavior of some GOP senators this week during the Senate hearings on the nomination of Judge Katenjii Brown Jackson for the US Supreme Court. Gerson's main point was how the GOP's tactics have declined to the point of decay.

What we have seen among Republican senators this time around – with a few notable exceptions – is a departure from what has preceded it. And it says far more about the state of the GOP than it does about the views of the nominee.

Jackson’s main Republican questioners are not focused on qualifications, temperament or even judicial theory. Their clear objective has been to trip up the nominee by asking about the latest Republican culture-war debates. It is surprising to me how little Republicans have emphasized judicial theory. For now, the culture war is all.

This is not just change; it is decay. Republicans have gone from arguing about the intent of the Founding Fathers to reproducing the night’s lineup of questions from Tucker Carlson.

As soon as someone says "just asking" or any similar words, it's a widely recognized signal of trying to divert an open debate into talking about the latest GOP culture-war debates. It's been used to silence an open debate so often, that it's become known as 'flooding the field with bullsh!t'.

I'm repeating this here because there's been transparent complaining about the use of "just asking" accompanied by a bit of wink-wink, nod-nod.

 

[panteragstk]

If he loses the support of the higher ups in the Russian military, yes. All we can hope for is that they have cooler heads and maybe, that they have become as tired of the idea that the West is the enemy as we are.

From what I'm reading a LOT of his generals have been killed in battle so I'm wondering how many loyalists he still has in the military.

I feel like Putin will come down with a mystery illness very soon if he can't make them happy.

 

[Replicant 7]

He said he didn't know heck I didn't know that because I can't stand watching Tucker

The amount of stuff that can trigger people these days is impossible to keep up with but
he said he understands 3 times since and been more then agreeable about it

So how about we all drop it before it gets blown up again and the thread runs the risk of derailing?

I don't watch Fox, news or that Tucker a$$hat. I read and saw that, Ukraine soldiers where or had this patch on their uniforms, that was considered Nazism. Wanted to know if that was fake news. Now if 'just saying' is now 'wonk' because someone used that as a dog whistle or what ever, it is now offensive to the cancel culture, wow! Thats just sooo obtuse! Lol.. I'm out, cause I got respect for Swerd and his thread's. Cheers

 

[highfigh]

From what I'm reading a LOT of his generals have been killed in battle so I'm wondering how many loyalists he still has in the military.

I feel like Putin will come down with a mystery illness very soon if he can't make them happy.

I think the ones who need to turn are in his cabinet but with the reports of some not being seen recently, he may be weeding out his 'internal enemies', real or perceived.

I think his increased paranoia is a symptom of something- maybe declining mental health or drug use. Neither is good.

Maybe he'll end up with lead poisoning.

 

[highfigh]

I don't watch Fox, news or that Tucker a$$hat. I read and saw that, Ukraine soldiers where or had this patch on their uniforms, that was considered Nazism. Wanted to know if that was fake news. Now if 'just saying' is now 'wonk' because someone used that as a dog whistle or what ever, it is now offensive to the cancel culture, wow! Thats just sooo obtuse! Lol.. I'm out, cause I got respect for Swerd and his thread's. Cheers

Tucker Carlson reminds me of the talking pimple on Chris Griffin's face.

 

[Swerd]

I don't watch Fox, news or that Tucker a$$hat. I read and saw that, Ukraine soldiers where or had this patch on their uniforms, that was considered Nazism. Wanted to know if that was fake news. Now if 'just saying' is now 'wonk' because someone used that as a dog whistle or what ever, it is now offensive to the cancel culture, wow! Thats just sooo obtuse! Lol.. I'm out, cause I got respect for Swerd and his thread's. Cheers

You certainly haven't been cancelled. And you're welcome back anytime.

 

[GO-NAD!]

He said he didn't know heck I didn't know that because I can't stand watching Tucker

The amount of stuff that can trigger people these days is impossible to keep up with but
he said he understands 3 times since and been more then agreeable about it

So how about we all drop it before it gets blown up again and the thread runs the risk of derailing?

I wasn't giving him a hard time and I take him at his word. I just explained why it bugs some people. It can be difficult to know if someone is "just asking questions" honestly, or if someone is trolling. Now that everyone here knows, we can certainly drop it.

 

[panteragstk]

I for one welcome anyone that has a question about something they saw on the "news" or FB or anywhere else for that matter. It's helpful to know what, if any, BS is being spread and it also helps to get good sources so we don't inadvertently spread BS.

It's so difficult now to just say "oh wow, didn't know that" without accidently listening to some BS.

I've always been critical of things people tell me. Repeat some BS and get called on it once and it sticks with you. I've done it a few times...if you can believe it.

 

[Swerd]

On Steam Vent threads, it can be hard to stay calm. Both sides of these political debates have been known to provoke while they are also trying to refute someone. It's very easy to do that.

But I think it's far better to edit your first draft response before posting. Make an effort to state your point, without offending. Of course, that requires that you first identify what your main point is. Once you do that, it's much easier to weed out all the offensive stuff.

 

[Replicant 7]

You certainly haven't been cancelled. And you're welcome back anytime.

@Swerd, ok, let me try to put it this way. I read that Ukraine soldiers where wearing a patch that was or is a symbol of Nazism. It's a patch with a black sun. Apparently NATO post 4 times about this and than deleted, because they didn't realize the patch on her uniform. Here's where I found this.

 

[Mikado463]

On Steam Vent threads, it can be hard to stay calm. Both sides of these political debates have been known to provoke while they are also trying to refute someone. It's very easy to do that.

But I think it's far better to edit your first draft response before posting. Make an effort to state your point, without offending. Of course, that requires that you first identify what your main point is. Once you do that, it's much easier to weed out all the offensive stuff.

fingers crossed , for the record I edited my first draft !

 

[Danzilla31]

Also @Replicant 7 and @Mikado463

As an example of what GO-NAD! said, I saw a column this morning by Michael Gerson, where his subject was the absurd, clown-like behavior of some GOP senators this week during the Senate hearings on the nomination of Judge Katenjii Brown Jackson for the US Supreme Court. Gerson's main point was how the GOP's tactics have declined to the point of decay.

As soon as someone says "just asking" or any similar words, it's a widely recognized signal of trying to divert an open debate into talking about the latest GOP culture-war debates. It's been used to silence an open debate so often, that it's become known as 'flooding the field with bullsh!t'.

I'm repeating this here because there's been transparent complaining about the use of "just asking" accompanied by a bit of wink-wink, nod-nod.

How is there transperant complaining? One person said the term once one time on this thread it was explained to him why it's an issue and he's since said my bad over 3 times now.

I'm COMPLAINING about the fact that we've had 3 pages since of going over this one term AFTER the person already said my fault I didn't understand numerous times.

Also how about this? If you get triggered by something that's not even directed at you it's a question directed to another member. If you decide to insert yourself into the conversation instead of responding rudely you just explain to them why that term bothers you and ask them first if they meant to use it and second could they not do it again because that's what started this whole thing

And then if they apologize and agree you just DROP it.

Could we please just get back to the subject of Ukraine and Russia?

 

[Replicant 7]

If only the Afghan Nation citizens would've been as brave to fight the Taliban like the Ukraine citizens are doing.

 

[Danzilla31]

Right! Thanks man! Really wasn't talking about his wife or speakers.
View attachment 54840

I know you weren't but to be fair let's just let it go. I really really want a good thread about Russia and Ukraine.

Just hit the ignore button in the future if someone is really being confrontational. Don't respond. It really isn't worth it to drag a thread like this into the mud.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The big problem is that Russia has nukes and it has always been the main deterrent WRT going to war with them.

It's time for the World to force Russia to give up the nukes- bluff or not, Russia needs a new leader and the World needs to make sure they don't go this far again. Having nukes as detente is one thing, but having them and being an aggressor can't be tolerated. Iran and North Korea need to be stopped, too.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-threatens-universal-nuclear-war-if-nato-peacekeepers-enter-ukraine/news-story/d1fb2e6d16d85dca0cb7283ee934f034

While it would be great if Russia didn't have nuclear weapons, how would one go about taking them away? We can't even make North Korea give them up. It's an evil genie that cannot be pushed back into the lamp.

 

[Swerd]

@Swerd, ok, let me try to put it this way. I read that Ukraine soldiers where wearing a patch that was or is a symbol of Nazism. It's a patch with a black sun. Apparently NATO post 4 times about this and than deleted, because they didn't realize the patch on her uniform. Here's where I found this …

The topic about neo-nazis among Ukrainian soldiers is fairly new to me. After reading about it, just a little, it isn't clear how widespread these neo-nazis are, and that this controversial topic has become propaganda fodder for both the pro-Russian & anti-Russian sides, not to mention other sides as well.

After seeing that photo of the soldier with the black sun patch, I wondered if it's the only photo? How many photos exist of other soldiers wearing the same kind of patch. Is it one single snapshot, or does represent something widespread? I still don't have a clear answer. Judging by some other posts I saw here, it is possible that there are small numbers of these neo-nazis in Ukrainian uniform. But to me, that isn't yet a sure thing. That's always the trouble when a single photo is presented as evidence of something widespread.

 

[Replicant 7]

The topic about neo-nazis among Ukrainian soldiers is fairly new to me. After reading about it, just a little, it isn't clear how widespread these neo-nazis are, and that this controversial topic has become propaganda fodder for both the pro-Russian & anti-Russian sides, not to mention other sides as well.

After seeing that photo of the soldier with the black sun patch, I wondered if it's the only photo? How many photos exist of other soldiers wearing the same kind of patch. Is it one single snapshot, or does represent something widespread? I still don't have a clear answer. Judging by some other posts I saw here, it is possible that there are small numbers of these neo-nazis in Ukrainian uniform. But to me, that isn't yet a sure thing. That's always the trouble when a single photo is presented as evidence of something widespread.

Thank Swerd, I've tried looking for more info can't find much of it.

 

[Swerd]

fingers crossed , for the record I edited my first draft !

I'm reminded of a biography of Harry Truman (the one by David McCullough) I read a number of years ago. Truman wrote lots of letters to all kinds of people. Apparently, he hand wrote 1st drafts of these letters, where he really let loose with all kinds criticism, harsh comments, and Major League cursing. He would put these away in a desk drawer for a day or two, and then write a 2nd draft where he cleaned it all up.

He kept all those 1st drafts, even if he never sent any letter at all. Historians loved it when they got their hands on those 1st drafts, as they could compare it to the official revised versions that did get sent. It really helped biographers like McCullough understand what he really thought. But it also revealed his thought processes as he revised those letters. Truman even said that he was often embarrassed by what he said in his 1st drafts – but only after a day or two had passed.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm reminded of a biography of Harry Truman (the one by David McCullough) I read a number of years ago. Truman wrote lots of letters to all kinds of people. Apparently, he hand wrote 1st drafts of these letters, where he really let loose with all kinds criticism, harsh comments, and Major League cursing. He would put these away in a desk drawer for a day or two, and then write a 2nd draft where he cleaned it all up.

He kept all those 1st drafts, even if he never sent any letter at all. Historians loved it when they got their hands on those 1st drafts, as they could compare it to the official revised versions that did get sent. It really helped biographers like McCullough understand what he really thought. But it also revealed his thought processes as he revised those letters. Truman even said that he was often embarrassed by what he said in his 1st drafts – but only after a day or two had passed.

I remember many years ago, reading "Reader's Digest" and in one of the humour sections, there was a story about Truman. It went something like this:

Truman was giving a speech one day and stated, "I grew up on a farm. And, in farming, there's manure, manure and more manure." (He was probably talking about BS in politics) His wife was sitting in the audience with a friend who leaned over to her and said, "Oh my, can't you get him to be a bit less graphic?". Mrs. Truman responded, "It took me forever to get him to say manure!"

I thought it was funny...

 

[Danzilla31]

The topic about neo-nazis among Ukrainian soldiers is fairly new to me. After reading about it, just a little, it isn't clear how widespread these neo-nazis are, and that this controversial topic has become propaganda fodder for both the pro-Russian & anti-Russian sides, not to mention other sides as well.

After seeing that photo of the soldier with the black sun patch, I wondered if it's the only photo? How many photos exist of other soldiers wearing the same kind of patch. Is it one single snapshot, or does represent something widespread? I still don't have a clear answer. Judging by some other posts I saw here, it is possible that there are small numbers of these neo-nazis in Ukrainian uniform. But to me, that isn't yet a sure thing. That's always the trouble when a single photo is presented as evidence of something widespread.

Not only the issue that it could be photo shopped or part of Putins disinformation campaign. Or Russian soldiers using those uniforms for the same purpose

I seriously doubt Ukraine which is advocating so strongly for Western support would encourage there military to wear an outfit justifying Putins allegations

Makes no logical sense like you said I'd need to see a lot more photos and a lot more coverage before I'd pay attention to it