Comparing vintage equipment to the new digital equipment

David696969

David696969

Enthusiast
We have heard that the old saying is the vintage audio sounds better and has better quality than the newer digital format electronics I have to agree.
It doesn't matter how much you pay for a power amp or a receiver as long as it gives you the quality and longevity for the price.
Vintage equipment has been known to last for generations upon generations many of them are still here today 50 and 60 years later with the same parts and still working maybe not as new but just the same still working.
I have purchased some new equipment that was digital and supposed to be high wattage and I found it to be garbage for the price that I paid I did not enjoy the sound and it did not live long when pressed to put out high watts and volume for a long period of time most of the time the receiver or amplifier simply gave out others blew up with flames and smoke this is the digital equipment they are making today.
It is sad to think you paid up to $5000 on a good amplifier or AM-FM receiver with this new digital technology to have it blow up in less than 30 days if you really turn up the volume for long periods of time I really don't care what brand you get if you really crank it up high and leave it on long and it gets warm or hot it will explode or fail.
Not all but most that said why pay the cost of new equipment when you can purchase a good receiver or amplifier off of eBay for maybe $200 or less that will last you many many years and the sound quality if it's vintage would be outstanding when compared to new.
Let look inside the new audio equipment for today you'll find that the case is extremely light if you open it up you'll find hardly anything inside and that's for a reason because everything inside the new audio is miniature in size transistors filter capacitors transformers are all small when compared to vintage equipment therefore you cannot expect them to sound as good as the vintage equipment.
The vintage Cerwin Vega power Amps have massive transformers and massive Coke can capacitors with massive transistors and heat sinks weighing up to 50 lb or more.
We can't say you get what you pay for because if you buy new today you're getting garbage compared to the vintage of years ago where people cared about electronics they took pride the equipment that they made and sold but not today today is just for profit filled with lies and deception they produce equipment that is made not to last and to fail when stressed.
This is so you can continue to purchase new equipment every two or three years to keep these companies in business where the vintage equipment you can purchase it and if you get a good one it will last you up to 50 years you do the math what will you prefer test for yourself and save yourself a lot of money buy vintage and leave the new stuff alone...
 
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Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Old vintage electronic equipment cannot compare with the good digital equipment which is produced today.

For instance, your Cerwin Vega may sound good to you but I have never heard or seen it mentioned as a top performing amplifier. Many of today's solid state amplifiers have specs with low distortion and noise levels that you didn't see 20 years ago. Vintage electronics are not compatible with the currently produced stuff using HDMI connections, Wi-Fi, USB, internet, and with Dolby and DTS audio decoding features.

There are several reliable brands on the market. Before purchasing stuff, we have to read about what's available within our planned budget. We have access to reviews on this and other reliable websites such as Audiosciencereview.com. A few serious magazines also exist.
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Its a wonderful world looking through rose colored glasses. Im not going to bother arguing with the OP and let him live on in ignorant bliss.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Its a wonderful world looking through rose colored glasses. Im not going to bother arguing with the OP and let him live on in ignorant bliss.
I think you used the right phrase "looking through rose colored glasses" at the vintage gear.
We see what we want to see when we do that, not necessarily what's actually there.
@Verdinut also hit it on the head: today's stuff is by and large of better quality than old stuff.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. But to have genuine nostalgia one has to have actually lived through a time period.
Most of the folks who lived through the era of early audio don't have a desire to go back.
But a lot of young people who never lived through it have this idea of nostalgia for things they never lived through.
Hence the nostalgia is much more wistful and idealistic than the reality often was.

But, we don't need to argue or bludgeon the OP. If he wishes to pine for the old days, go ahead and enjoy the trip.
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
I miss the simplicity of the older audio gear. The "owners manual" of my old Harman / Kardon 330B was about 20 pages, my current Yamaha RX-A2A is about 400 pages!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I think you used the right phrase "looking through rose colored glasses" at the vintage gear.
We see what we want to see when we do that, not necessarily what's actually there.
@Verdinut also hit it on the head: today's stuff is by and large of better quality than old stuff.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. But to have genuine nostalgia one has to have actually lived through a time period.
Most of the folks who lived through the era of early audio don't have a desire to go back.
But a lot of young people who never lived through it have this idea of nostalgia for things they never lived through.
Hence the nostalgia is much more wistful and idealistic than the reality often was.

But, we don't need to argue or bludgeon the OP. If he wishes to pine for the old days, go ahead and enjoy the trip.
There is an evolutionary survival of the fittest in all of this. There is the strong tendency of the best of older gear to survive. There has always been lots of junk around, but it tends to be long gone.

There are still lots of Garrard 301 and 401 turntables around, because not only are they really good turntables, but the engineering and build quality were of the highest order. There were many, many times more junk BSR turntables produced. But where are they now? I would bet there are more Garrard 301 turntables around that the junk BSR auto changers.

Quad products are another example. The proportion of surviving production is high, because Peter Walker was a reliability fanatic. It is also really good equipment and in the analog domain as good and better than most produced now. There are many others of that era now gone. His FM4 FM tuner was one of the best, if not the best ever produced, and so sort after if you still want quality FM reproduction.

Studer/Revox is another case in point, with superb performance and build quality.

There is also the curios and the museum aspect. Take dbx LPs and the decoders. That format can compete with any digital format on any level apart from convenience. Items like that are really of historical/museum interest. But my rig is cutting edge and museum by design.

I have been playing of late the superbly played and recorded LPs of the Haydn String quartets played by the Beaux Arts Trio on the Philips label.

I have been playing them on my Garrard 301 with the Decca pro arm and H4E head, via my Quad 22 tube preamp. The disc surfaces are silent and the sound magnificent in large part due to the excellence of the recordings. However the sound is so good, detailed and delegate, that you can wonder if we have improved.

The turntable is 60 years old the preamp 55 years old and the Decca arm and head 52 year old. None of those units under half a century old, and yet the absolute equal of anything now, given a recording of that quality. Now however that level of audio quality is far more easily accessible

There is gear around that is beautifully made and engineered today, but the price gap between that and junk has widened enormously.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Who made amps for CV?

ps looking around a bit, think I was thinking perhaps of later years (pretty sure it was Crest), but apparently in late 50s they were early adopters of ss amps.
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I miss the simplicity of the older audio gear. The "owners manual" of my old Harman / Kardon 330B was about 20 pages, my current Yamaha RX-A2A is about 400 pages!
Yes but your comparing the technology of a toaster to that of a computer. Toasters were simple, computers, not so much.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
@TLS,

There is modern junk out there too that wont last and there are modern products who will stand the test of time and play up to and surpass the standards of vintage equipment. Its been like this with everything we humans have manufactured.

As far as Haydn goes, I feel his music is often over looked which is a shame as he wrote some truly moving pieces.
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Senior Audioholic
@TLS,

There is modern junk out there too that wont last and there are modern products who will stand the test of time and play up to and surpass the standards of vintage equipment. Its been like this with everything we humans have manufactured.

As far as Haydn goes, I feel his music is often over looked which is a shame as he wrote some truly moving pieces.
You get what you pay for. It's the same now as it was then.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
We have heard that the old saying is the vintage audio sounds better and has better quality than the newer digital format electronics I have to agree.
It doesn't matter how much you pay for a power amp or a receiver as long as it gives you the quality and longevity for the price.
Vintage equipment has been known to last for generations upon generations many of them are still here today 50 and 60 years later with the same parts and still working maybe not as new but just the same still working.
I have purchased some new equipment that was digital and supposed to be high wattage and I found it to be garbage for the price that I paid I did not enjoy the sound and it did not live long when pressed to put out high watts and volume for a long period of time most of the time the receiver or amplifier simply gave out others blew up with flames and smoke this is the digital equipment they are making today.
It is sad to think you paid up to $5000 on a good amplifier or AM-FM receiver with this new digital technology to have it blow up in less than 30 days if you really turn up the volume for long periods of time I really don't care what brand you get if you really crank it up high and leave it on long and it gets warm or hot it will explode or fail.
Not all but most that said why pay the cost of new equipment when you can purchase a good receiver or amplifier off of eBay for maybe $200 or less that will last you many many years and the sound quality if it's vintage would be outstanding when compared to new.
Let look inside the new audio equipment for today you'll find that the case is extremely light if you open it up you'll find hardly anything inside and that's for a reason because everything inside the new audio is miniature in size transistors filter capacitors transformers are all small when compared to vintage equipment therefore you cannot expect them to sound as good as the vintage equipment.
The vintage Cerwin Vega power Amps have massive transformers and massive Coke can capacitors with massive transistors and heat sinks weighing up to 50 lb or more.
We can't say you get what you pay for because if you buy new today you're getting garbage compared to the vintage of years ago where people cared about electronics they took pride the equipment that they made and sold but not today today is just for profit filled with lies and deception they produce equipment that is made not to last and to fail when stressed.
This is so you can continue to purchase new equipment every two or three years to keep these companies in business where the vintage equipment you can purchase it and if you get a good one it will last you up to 50 years you do the math what will you prefer test for yourself and save yourself a lot of money buy vintage and leave the new stuff alone...
Define 'digital'. Tuner? Audio path coming from streamers/CD/DVD/BD players, NAS or through optical/HDMI from a TV? Sure, that's digital but once it's converted to analog, which is most of the rest of the equipment's circuitry and components, it's no longer digital.

Components have been miniaturized and consolidated since the early-'60s, or before- the circuits are more complex, so smaller is a good thing where it can be. The components that involve more current can't be made smaller because they need to be cooled.

With the BS surrounding 'classic' vintage audio equipment, the believers are causing the prices to skyrocket and much of what is called 'great' really isn't. Receivers, integrated amps and power amps from 50 years ago often have a hard time driving newer speakers and the old speakers were often not very good- the technology didn't allow it and not as much was known about how to make a speaker driver do what is needed or wanted. Sure, the pro gear was much more durable and in many cases reliable, but even that wasn't as good as modern equipment.

BTW- as someone who has sold audio equipment for more than 45 years- the manufacturers wanted people to buy new equipment as much as they do now, but the marketing wasn't as effective and after a certain point, they were required to state the specs more honestly. If you think that a Pioneer SX-950 receiver is really worth $900-$1250, go ahead but when people write what's on this web page, beware- they prove that they don't really understand the equipment or features.

"Flat Switch – Aids in Adjusting EQ Settings"- no, it doesn't. It defeats the tone controls.

I sold these, as well as the models from all following years into 1988- it was good, but I don't think it was great. I definitely don't think it's worth the going prices. The problem with older equipment is that eventually, the parts are unavailable.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Quality old gear is quality gear. Quality new gear is ALSO quality gear.

The problem is that there is a lot of crap on the market today, which fools buy into, thinking it is good, but it is just garbage. They don't do their homework, then when it fails they think that everything new isn't good. It's just wrong.

Manufacturers such as Yamaha and Denon make some really nice stuff and are honest about their specifications. They have better gear as well as cheaper gear and they have a ton of circuitry built in to protect their gear from abuse which didn't use to exist with some of the older gear out there.

But, there are some real values to be had on older gear. Some older gear can be had for pennies on the dollar from when it was new. My Yamaha RX-Z1 receiver was $3,000 new, and I basically gave it away when I moved to HDMI. I had no need for a non-HDMI receiver and so it went away. And it was a tank with top shelf components.

Such is life.

You absolutely can get phenomenal quality today. If you think you can't, then you are looking at the wrong stuff and shopping in the wrong store.
Quality gear from years ago is still quality gear today. Just as likely though you could be dealing with some poor quality vintage gear with bad noise in the system or poor design. Just because it is vintage, doesn't mean it is quality.

To that point. If you have a bunch of crappy vintage gear and you are hooking it up to crappy speakers, you may not even be able to tell the difference between quality and junk. If you don't have that basic ability to hear the difference, then it is hard to say how much quality someone actually has.

Measurements matter a great deal. It doesn't mean you don't get to enjoy what you have, but if what you have sucks, then just because you like it, it doesn't make it great. Kind of like if you love McDonald's hamburgers but have never had filet mignon. As much as you can praise your McDonald's Hamburger, it still isn't actually good meat.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Quality old gear is quality gear. Quality new gear is ALSO quality gear.

The problem is that there is a lot of crap on the market today, which fools buy into, thinking it is good, but it is just garbage. They don't do their homework, then when it fails they think that everything new isn't good. It's just wrong.

Manufacturers such as Yamaha and Denon make some really nice stuff and are honest about their specifications. They have better gear as well as cheaper gear and they have a ton of circuitry built in to protect their gear from abuse which didn't use to exist with some of the older gear out there.

But, there are some real values to be had on older gear. Some older gear can be had for pennies on the dollar from when it was new. My Yamaha RX-Z1 receiver was $3,000 new, and I basically gave it away when I moved to HDMI. I had no need for a non-HDMI receiver and so it went away. And it was a tank with top shelf components.

Such is life.

You absolutely can get phenomenal quality today. If you think you can't, then you are looking at the wrong stuff and shopping in the wrong store.
Quality gear from years ago is still quality gear today. Just as likely though you could be dealing with some poor quality vintage gear with bad noise in the system or poor design. Just because it is vintage, doesn't mean it is quality.

To that point. If you have a bunch of crappy vintage gear and you are hooking it up to crappy speakers, you may not even be able to tell the difference between quality and junk. If you don't have that basic ability to hear the difference, then it is hard to say how much quality someone actually has.

Measurements matter a great deal. It doesn't mean you don't get to enjoy what you have, but if what you have sucks, then just because you like it, it doesn't make it great. Kind of like if you love McDonald's hamburgers but have never had filet mignon. As much as you can praise your McDonald's Hamburger, it still isn't actually good meat.
I know people who think that going to McDonald's is a treat and they have a ton of money, eat at fine dining establishments and travel extensively. I can't stand their crap.

I used to see a lot of equipment in/from the '70s that had masonite or plastic rear panels and bottom- some of those pieces are seen on Audio Karma and praised for the great sound. Nope.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Kind of like if you love McDonald's hamburgers but have never had filet mignon. As much as you can praise your McDonald's Hamburger, it still isn't actually good meat.
The "real" question is. Is it really meat?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
You absolutely can get phenomenal quality today. If you think you can't, then you are looking at the wrong stuff and shopping in the wrong store.
Quality gear from years ago is still quality gear today. Just as likely though you could be dealing with some poor quality vintage gear with bad noise in the system or poor design. Just because it is vintage, doesn't mean it is quality.
This sums it up quite well I think. There has always been good and bad quality gear, back then and now.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The "real" question is. Is it really meat?
Does it even matter? I mean, in the real world, plenty of people enjoy their burgers. Real or fake, they are enjoyed. But, they aren't Red Robin, or a nice custom place near your home, and they sure as heck aren't Ruth's Chris.
It doesn't mean people can't like both but the point is to know the difference and that it actually exists. :D
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The "real" question is. Is it really meat?
I laughed when a lawyer sued Taco Bell because the 'beef' isn't all beef, as if Taco Bell is a bastion of fine dining. I don't think they ever posted anything about it being 100% beef and if beef can be defined as "parts of a cow", I'm not sure I want everything to be 100% beef. 'Beef meat', maybe with exclusions, would be a good way to describe it.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I laughed when a lawyer sued Taco Bell because the 'beef' isn't all beef, as if Taco Bell is a bastion of fine dining. I don't think they ever posted anything about it being 100% beef and if beef can be defined as "parts of a cow", I'm not sure I want everything to be 100% beef. 'Beef meat', maybe with exclusions, would be a good way to describe it.
100% smooth muscle fiber beef.
 
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