gas prices

[highfigh]

Hoard our oil reserves and use them for non fuel applications.
Generate as much energy as we can from lower polluting sources.
Get the government out of choosing which green industries and people to favor mainly to limit corruption.
Get the government out of artificially manipulating demand and supply. High fuel costs always punish the poor and middle class the most.
Unleash the real entrepreneurs and inventors.

The goal is cheap energy as cleanly as possible. It is necessary to any economic expansion.

So, what should we use as fuel in the meantime? People can't just stop driving gas/diesel vehicles because, at the moment, the auto industry can't even make them in sufficient quantities to fill the demand. The materials for EV batteries aren't that plentiful to make a fast switchover and they're still expensive- higher demand will just cause the cost to increase.

You need to look at the actual demand for energy- in theory, we should be able to use other sources, but oil/fossil fuels are still the best/least hazardous. Nuclear energy is still at the top of energy density, but the problem is still "what do we do with the waste?" when its decay is measured in 'half-life of thousands of years'.

The problem I see with having the markets as the sole means of dictating prices is due to greed. However, competition SHOULD keep the prices lower, but when you have OPEC controlling supply/demand outside of the US, it's out of our hands.

 

[SithZedi]

So, what should we use as fuel in the meantime? People can't just stop driving gas/diesel vehicles because, at the moment, the auto industry can't even make them in sufficient quantities to fill the demand. The materials for EV batteries aren't that plentiful to make a fast switchover and they're still expensive- higher demand will just cause the cost to increase.

You need to look at the actual demand for energy- in theory, we should be able to use other sources, but oil/fossil fuels are still the best/least hazardous. Nuclear energy is still at the top of energy density, but the problem is still "what do we do with the waste?" when its decay is measured in 'half-life of thousands of years'.

The problem I see with having the markets as the sole means of dictating prices is due to greed. However, competition SHOULD keep the prices lower, but when you have OPEC controlling supply/demand outside of the US, it's out of our hands.

Agree, we have to use what we have now for current needs. I was speaking more to long term path. My priority would be to keep costs and prices as low as possible. That would also keep profits low. When the US was at peak production in recent years the average ROE's of oil companies were very low. See attached, item 13.

Industry Ratios (benchmarking): ROE (Return on equity), after tax

ROE (Return on equity), after tax: breakdown by industry using the Standard Industrial Classification (SIC)

www.readyratios.com

 

[highfigh]

Agree, we have to use what we have now for current needs. I was speaking more to long term path. My priority would be to keep costs and prices as low as possible. That would also keep profits low. When the US was at peak production in recent years the average ROE's of oil companies were very low. See attached, item 13.

Industry Ratios (benchmarking): ROE (Return on equity), after tax

ROE (Return on equity), after tax: breakdown by industry using the Standard Industrial Classification (SIC)

www.readyratios.com

But they sold the shyte out of whatever they could get and I don't remember anyone complaining about the dividends from their oil stocks.

 

[SithZedi]

But they sold the shyte out of whatever they could get and I don't remember anyone complaining about the dividends from their oil stocks.

They sure did. Let's not forget issuing corporate bonds at low interest rates then using the money to buy back shares. Even Apple did that. All thanks to the Federal Reserve bank. There are much worse industries for greed than oil.

 

[Replicant 7]

 

[Replicant 7]

 

[Mikado463]

just paid $4.00 a gallon to fill up this morning, I suspect it will be some time before I see it go below that mark. Five bucks in another week or two ?

Perhaps if it gets to ten bucks it will thin out the traffic like the early days of COVID, that would be nice !

 

[John Parks]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500890835642114056

 

[j_garcia]

just paid $4.00 a gallon to fill up this morning, I suspect it will be some time before I see it go below that mark. Five bucks in another week or two ?

Perhaps if it gets to ten bucks it will thin out the traffic like the early days of COVID, that would be nice !

I filled up the car that takes 87 today and it was $5.69, $5.99 for premium.

 

[Mikado463]

I filled up the car that takes 87 today and it was $5.69, $5.99 for premium.

interesting that there is such little separation between reg and premium, prior to this craziness the differential was around 15%

 

[SithZedi]

interesting that there is such little separation between reg and premium, prior to this craziness the differential was around 15%

Just filled up at 4.25 for 87 this morning. It was 3.75 last week. That differential might be local supply issues. Premium was 4.95....I was in an area with lot's of Land Rovers & BMWs though...

 

[GO-NAD!]

The price of gas here has risen 20% since last Thursday. Regular is $1.86 per litre, which works out to about US$5.50 per US gallon.

 

[highfigh]

just paid $4.00 a gallon to fill up this morning, I suspect it will be some time before I see it go below that mark. Five bucks in another week or two ?

Perhaps if it gets to ten bucks it will thin out the traffic like the early days of COVID, that would be nice !

I really enjoyed the decrease in traffic. It seems that the only reason people weren't driving like A-holes is because they were told to stay at home.

Unfortunately, they have more than made up for it.

 

[j_garcia]

interesting that there is such little separation between reg and premium, prior to this craziness the differential was around 15%

Here it is about $0.30 difference normally and 89 falls somewhere right in between.

Traffic won't thin out. EV sales will go through the roof making supply chain issues for chips worse.

LOL, someone posted a meme "I saw a person put in $10 at pump 3. Where are they going? Pump 4?"

 

[SithZedi]

Here it is about $0.30 difference normally and 89 falls somewhere right in between.

Traffic won't thin out. EV sales will go through the roof making supply chain issues for chips worse.

LOL, someone posted a meme "I saw a person put in $10 at pump 3. Where are they going? Pump 4?"

EV's are for the rich in my area.
We're just about getting to landscaping season in my area. These guys feed their families on the slimmest of profit margins. They drive around in 10 -15 year old Tacomas and F 150s. And our leaders message as communicated by Buttigieg, Psaki, and Colbert (useful idiot) say that they should buy EVs.
The elite's contempt for the working class and reality has no bounds or shame...

 

[highfigh]

EV's are for the rich in my area.
We're just about getting to landscaping season in my area. These guys feed their families on the slimmest of profit margins. They drive around in 10 -15 year old Tacomas and F 150s. And our leaders message as communicated by Buttigieg, Psaki, and Colbert (useful idiot) say that they should buy EVs.
The elite's contempt for the working class and reality has no bounds or shame...

They have no idea how much anything costs.

Someone on a local radio show has said "I have a big problem listening to billionaires telling millionaires what the middle class needs".

 

[j_garcia]

EV's are for the rich in my area.
We're just about getting to landscaping season in my area. These guys feed their families on the slimmest of profit margins. They drive around in 10 -15 year old Tacomas and F 150s. And our leaders message as communicated by Buttigieg, Psaki, and Colbert (useful idiot) say that they should buy EVs.
The elite's contempt for the working class and reality has no bounds or shame...

I don't disagree. That is beginning to change though as the manufacturers are all bringing models to market in the same price range as an average car. They all make their money up front with the expensive models when they have nothing else on the market, then turn that cash into production of a lower cost model. For the big manufacturers, that's not a problem, but making them cheap enough to still make a profit is and that is what is starting to change as the industry moves in that direction. The charging infrastructure is also not there yet though.

Seems there is a market for midsize electric trucks, but those aren't going to be as cheap as a gas or diesel truck.

 

[cpp]

I really enjoyed the decrease in traffic. It seems that the only reason people weren't driving like A-holes is because they were told to stay at home.

Fla is full of traffic right now . And right now around Daytona we have Bike Week with 600,000 people projected. Bikes and trucks with bike trailers everywhere. Hotels and campgrounds full from New Smyrna to St Augustine. Plus the normal tourist traffic.

Gas, heck cost me $25.00 to fill up my mower, blower, edger,

 

[SithZedi]

I don't disagree. That is beginning to change though as the manufacturers are all bringing models to market in the same price range as an average car. They all make their money up front with the expensive models when they have nothing else on the market, then turn that cash into production of a lower cost model. For the big manufacturers, that's not a problem, but making them cheap enough to still make a profit is and that is what is starting to change as the industry moves in that direction. The charging infrastructure is also not there yet though.

Agree. Time of of the essence though. Even if we had an ideal world where we had cheap EV's the current electrical grid would need Trillions in upgrades as you said. Also, the way we generate electricity with coal and other fossil fuels has to be addressed.
Personally, I have higher hopes for Hydrogen engines. There are many issues to address as the first criticism is always their "Carnot" efficiency is limited because they are "heat" engines, etc.
Full disclosure: I own a few shares of Plug Power and Ballard Power Systems. If only for fun go to their websites some interesting tech info.

 

[j_garcia]

Toyota still believe hydrogen is the future, but they seem to be the only one. Honda had it for a while too, but seem to have mostly dropped it. That played out poorly here in our area when the one and only plant that handled distribution had an explosion and all those hydrogen cars were useless for a few months. Toyota had to provide some of those owners with loaner cars for 2-3 months, such as one of my friends. No doubt when her lease was up, she bought a hybrid.