Russia - Ukraine

[SithZedi]

Until 2014, Ukraine was led by a puppet of Putin (Viktor Yanukovych ), who is said to be the main choice as leader if Donetsk is separated from Ukraine, which would perpetuate the Russian influence. The Ukrainians overthrew him in 2014 because of his stance on Russia taking Crimea.

HF, in the fog and emotion of war there is a surge of bad history out there. It's important to look at the timeline to interpret events. These are bullet points with much going on between the lines.

2010 - Yanukovych won an election 49% to 45%. There was controversy but ultimately the election was endorsed by PACE and OSCE the international agencies.

Nov 2013. Yanuk. made the decision to move away from an association agreement with the EU that had been in negotiations and instead chose to establish closer ties with the Russian Federation. Pro EU protests started and than things began to go out of control. Both Western and Russian outside influence were behind protests.

21 Feb. Yanuk signs a compromise deal with opposition leaders that promised constitutional changes to restore certain powers to Parliament and called for early elections to be held by December 2014.
The next day, 22 Feb UKr Parliament still votes to remove Yanuk from power.

2014 March. Putin invades Crimea. Remember Crimea houses the Russian Naval base of Sevastopol, which is important to Russia as San Diego is important to the US Navy. It is a very strategic port that the Greeks, Romans, Venetians, Genoa, on and on. have fought over for centuries and is the gateway to the Mediterranean Sea.

For any proper Western analyst, the Crimean move was entirely predictable at the time. Another failure by Leadership.

 

[highfigh]

What's stopping him from nukes anyway regardless of gov't/non-gov't approved attacks on him?

First, that would violate a lot of agreements and it would probably guarantee that nobody would be able to look at the Kremlin again. Mutually assured destruction- it's not needed, he would suffer because of it and carrying that out would be a sure sign that he has lost his mind.

What's the point of launching nukes, now? There's almost no chance the US would attack unless he goes after Nato countries and he has already done long-term damage to the environment by burning two nuke plants.

Time to go after the pinhead in North Korea, too- they just launched a ballistic missile this morning. The world doesn't need that little shythead throwing gas on the dumpster fire we already have.

 

[highfigh]

HF, in the fog and emotion of war there is a surge of bad history out there. It's important to look at the timeline to interpret events. These are bullet points with much going on between the lines.

2010 - Yanukovych won an election 49% to 45%. There was controversy but ultimately the election was endorsed by PACE and OSCE the international agencies.

Nov 2013. Yanuk. made the decision to move away from an association agreement with the EU that had been in negotiations and instead chose to establish closer ties with the Russian Federation. Pro EU protests started and than things began to go out of control. Both Western and Russian outside influence were behind protests.

21 Feb. Yanuk signs a compromise deal with opposition leaders that promised constitutional changes to restore certain powers to Parliament and called for early elections to be held by December 2014.
The next day, 22 Feb UKr Parliament still votes to remove Yanuk from power.

2014 March. Putin invades Crimea. Remember Crimea houses the Russian Naval base of Sevastopol, which is important to Russia as San Diego is important to the US Navy. It is a very strategic port that the Greeks, Romans, Venetians, Genoa, on and on. have fought over for centuries and is the gateway to the Mediterranean Sea.

For any proper Western analyst, the Crimean move was entirely predictable at the time. Another failure by Leadership.

OK, but if so many countries have fought over Sebastopol and it was founded by the Greeks, Russia can't very well say that it has always been theirs, so they need to work out an agreement. Putin would disagree, since he's not big on these agreements where he sees that he's losing something.

 

[SithZedi]

OK, but if so many countries have fought over Sebastopol and it was founded by the Greeks, Russia can't very well say that it has always been theirs, so they need to work out an agreement. Putin would disagree, since he's not big on these agreements where he sees that he's losing something.

Well it has been Russian since 1783, the same year the US Revolutionary War ended. If we want to get technical, the US should give the original 13 back to the Brits. I would be against that because of my feelings about Boris & Carrie.
Kidding aside, you are right we should work out on an agreement. This should be stopped immediately.
It should have been done before the tanks rolled.

 

[highfigh]

Well it has been Russian since 1783, the same year the US Revolutionary War ended. If we want to get technical, the US should give the original 13 back to the Brits. I would be against that because of my feelings about Boris & Carrie.
Kidding aside, you are right we should work out on an agreement. This should be stopped immediately.
It should have been done before the tanks rolled.

But it was Greek for over 2000 years.

Why the Brits? Europeans waltzed in and took it from the indigenous people. What about the Vikings?

 

[SithZedi]

But it was Greek for over 2000 years.

Why the Brits? Europeans waltzed in and took it from the indigenous people. What about the Vikings?

Exactly right. History is messy and fatal to civilisation when it's not understood.
With all due respect to this moment and the unnecessary carnage, Hunter Thompson reputedly said, "you gotta deal with the pile of s*it that's in front of you now".

 

[haraldo]

 

[3db]

Until 2014, Ukraine was led by a puppet of Putin (Viktor Yanukovych ), who is said to be the main choice as leader if Donetsk is separated from Ukraine, which would perpetuate the Russian influence. The Ukrainians overthrew him in 2014 because of his stance on Russia taking Crimea.

So? Now Ukraine is going to fall back to Putin and there's nothing NATO can do but watch.

 

[mtrycrafts]

What's stopping him from nukes anyway regardless of gov't/non-gov't approved attacks on him?

Then it is game over.

 

[3db]

View attachment 54337

Didnt know whether to like this post or say it was funny. Its both.

 

[Verdinut]

Some interesting info in the following article about global cyberattack risks:

Potential cybersecurity impacts of Russia's invasion of Ukraine

Responding to the crisis in Ukraine must prioritize physical safety, but there are related cyber-risks to consider too.

blog.malwarebytes.com

 

[haraldo]

Didnt know whether to like this post or say it was funny. Its both.

I think both
But it shows the fighting spirit of Ukrainians!

 

[GO-NAD!]

HF, in the fog and emotion of war there is a surge of bad history out there. It's important to look at the timeline to interpret events. These are bullet points with much going on between the lines.

2010 - Yanukovych won an election 49% to 45%. There was controversy but ultimately the election was endorsed by PACE and OSCE the international agencies.

Nov 2013. Yanuk. made the decision to move away from an association agreement with the EU that had been in negotiations and instead chose to establish closer ties with the Russian Federation. Pro EU protests started and than things began to go out of control. Both Western and Russian outside influence were behind protests.

21 Feb. Yanuk signs a compromise deal with opposition leaders that promised constitutional changes to restore certain powers to Parliament and called for early elections to be held by December 2014.
The next day, 22 Feb UKr Parliament still votes to remove Yanuk from power.

2014 March. Putin invades Crimea. Remember Crimea houses the Russian Naval base of Sevastopol, which is important to Russia as San Diego is important to the US Navy. It is a very strategic port that the Greeks, Romans, Venetians, Genoa, on and on. have fought over for centuries and is the gateway to the Mediterranean Sea.

For any proper Western analyst, the Crimean move was entirely predictable at the time. Another failure by Leadership.

For a full picture, it might be helpful to go back a bit further.

In 1954, the Soviet Union made Crimea part of Ukraine. With the dissolution of the USSR, Crimea remained with Ukraine. If Russia wanted it back, that should have been negotiated at the time. They had no entitlement to just take it back.

In 1994, the Budapest Agreement was signed by Russia, the US and the UK, to assure Ukraine security in exchange for giving up her nuclear weapons. It looks like all three have violated the agreement- Russia by invading, the others for, well, not assuring Ukraine's security.

In 2004, Victor Yushchenko was elected as president of Ukraine after a repeated runoff election. The repeated vote was ordered after the original election featured massive electoral fraud in favour of Yanukovych. During the election campaign Yushchenko survived an assassination attempt from poisoning. Sound familiar?

 

[haraldo]

Then it is game over.

It’s never game over…. I believe Ukrainians will persist and Putin will fall, so does the former chief of MI6

 

[mtrycrafts]

It’s never game over…. I believe Ukrainians will persist and Putin will fall, so does the former chief of MI6

You mean Putler will not use nukes, just a threat? And if he just uses battlefield nukes, what then?

 

[highfigh]

So? Now Ukraine is going to fall back to Putin and there's nothing NATO can do but watch.

Hopefully not, but NATO won't accept Ukraine unless the country is free from Russian influence. Either he has to cave, do something really stupid or really smart for this to end A) soon and/or B) peacefully. If he attacks a NATO ally, it will suck to be him for awhile and for the Russian people. Hopefully, they won't need to suffer as long as they did after the Bolshevik Revolution.

 

[highfigh]

You mean Putler will not use nukes, just a threat? And if he just uses battlefield nukes, what then?

'Battlefield nukes', like some kind of dirty bomb? It still contaminates who knows how much land- it's not possible to contain the radiation, outside.

 

[highfigh]

Didnt know whether to like this post or say it was funny. Its both.

"Chopper brought down by Nerf Gun- pictures at 11".

I just watched a Russian chopper taken down by a SAM- direct hit.

 

[highfigh]

I think both
But it shows the fighting spirit of Ukrainians!

'All's fair, in love and war'- use what you have as a weapon.

 

[highfigh]

Ironic? Nope. Its in keeping with Putin's spineless character.

You missed it- they effed with the US election by inserting all kinds of BS on Facebook, etc and now, it's happening there.