Russia - Ukraine

[Alex2507]

You willing to risk nuclear war?

Risk one? Let's end one before it begins by starting one!

 

[GO-NAD!]

Don't blame them one bit.
Whatever happens at the end of this, the Russians will subservient to Xi and China. That will not be a good deal for them long term.

The Russians love to use this proverb when they are feeling nationalistic. I will do them the favor of re phrasing it for today's Russia.

"If you invite a Dragon to dance, it’s not the Bear who decides when the dance is over,”
“It’s the Dragon.” Cue the mic drop.....

No matter how this turns out, it's not going to be good for Russia. Even if they do conquer Ukraine, the best they can do is limit the self-inflicted damage.

 

[3db]

Russia have just shelled a nuclear reactor in Zaporizhzhia Ukraine. The act looks to be deliberate. One of the six reactors caught fire. The Ukrainians got the fire extinguished, and radiation levels are now said to be normal.

Boris Johnson now says the Russians are a threat to all Europe.

In my view we need to get this shut down. We need to send everything we have got over there, and go in, and get this illegal invasion shut down, or we are all going to regret it.

The radiation levels never spiked as the Russians thankfully never breached the containment container which is difficult to do according to a leading Canadian nucleur physicist mentioned on CBC news. Also, thankfully, only one of the 6 reactors was running. They are shutting it down as the distribution center around it was destroyed. I find the act of of striking against a nuclear plant is akin to launching a dirty nuclear weapon.

Boris isnt telling us anything we didnt know before.

 

[SithZedi]

The radiation levels never spiked as the Russians thankfully never breached the containment container which is difficult to do according to a leading Canadian nucleur physicist mentioned on CBC news. Also, thankfully, only one of the 6 reactors was running. They are shutting it down as the distribution center around it was destroyed. I find the act of of striking against a nuclear plant is akin to launching a dirty nuclear weapon.

Boris isnt telling us anything we didnt know before.

Thankfully that is the case. There are lots of nuclear plants in Ukr.

Wouldn't pay too much attention to the Boris & Carrie show. He is probably just relieved that this war has taken his "partygate" issues off the front pages.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Thankfully that is the case. There are lots of nuclear plants in Ukr.

Wouldn't pay too much attention to the Boris & Carrie show. He is probably just relieved that this war has taken his "partygate" issues off the front pages.

The Russian stench coming off of BoJo and other Brits, such as Aaron Banks is overpowering. And Roman Abramovich is being handled with kid gloves. It's funny that he's not yet on the list of oligarchs with sanctions against them; it looks like he's being given time to sell Chelsea FC.

 

[SithZedi]

The Russian stench coming off of BoJo and other Brits, such as Aaron Banks is overpowering. And Roman Abramovich is being handled with kid gloves. It's funny that he's not yet on the list of oligarchs with sanctions against them; it looks like he's being given time to sell Chelsea FC.

Kid gloves indeed. They would not want to be too disruptive to the billions in Russian & Chinese cash in the London real estate market and the various lobbying groups.

 

[highfigh]

Don't blame them one bit.
Whatever happens at the end of this, the Russians will subservient to Xi and China. That will not be a good deal for them long term.

The Russians love to use this proverb when they are feeling nationalistic. I will do them the favor of re phrasing it for today's Russia.

"If you invite a Dragon to dance, it’s not the Bear who decides when the dance is over,”
“It’s the Dragon.” Cue the mic drop.....

I hope this is true-

How cheap Chinese tires might explain Russia's 'stalled' 40-mile-long military convoy in Ukraine

How cheap Chinese tires might explain Russia's 'stalled' 40-mile-long military convoy in Ukraine

news.yahoo.com

 

[highfigh]

The Russian stench coming off of BoJo and other Brits, such as Aaron Banks is overpowering. And Roman Abramovich is being handled with kid gloves. It's funny that he's not yet on the list of oligarchs with sanctions against them; it looks like he's being given time to sell Chelsea FC.

But, supposedly, the proceeds will go to Ukrainian relief and the number being bounced around for the club is in the 4 billion pound range, which is more than it's worth and far more than he paid for it, whether the loans he funded are included, or not. He and everyone else know that he's in the crosshairs.

 

[highfigh]

Around his immediate circle probably. On the other hand, how many people actually have US$10,000 in Russia?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/482573/russia-population-by-average-wealth/

Over time, that could be saved pretty easily- save a bit here, a bit there, steal to sell for cash.....OTOH, Ukraine isn't exactly a squeaky-clean place, either- my friend who came to the US from Kyiv said he went back in '19 and the people were much more open & friendly, the place was much cleaner, more stores & shops existed and it was far easier to buy things that people want, rather than just scraping for the bare necessities as it was in the '70s. The kicker was when he said that the people were just as crooked as ever. He was there for vacation, but was told to move every two to 4 days and every time he did this, the last place was broken into. People talk, they knew he was here from the US and that he probably had things they could steal.

We never get the whole story. Russia or Ukraine- they're not different and Ukraine hasn't been independent for very long but as usual, it's the leaders who are making this happen.

 

[GO-NAD!]

But, supposedly, the proceeds will go to Ukrainian relief and the number being bounced around for the club is in the 4 billion pound range, which is more than it's worth and far more than he paid for it, whether the loans he funded are included, or not. He and everyone else know that he's in the crosshairs.

That would require a massive change in course for one of Putin's inner circle.

Roman Abramovich - Wikipedia

Abramovich was the first person to recommend to Yeltsin that Vladimir Putin be his successor as the Russian president.[51]: 135  When Putin formed his first cabinet as Prime Minister in 1999, Abramovich interviewed each of the candidates for cabinet positions before they were approved.[34]: 102  Subsequently, Abramovich would remain one of Putin's closest confidants. In 2007, Putin consulted in meetings with Abramovich on the question of who should be his successor as president; Medvedev was personally recommended by Abramovich.[51]: 135, 271 

Chris Hutchins, a biographer of Putin, described the relationship between the Russian president and Abramovich as like that between a father and a favourite son. Abramovich has said that when he addresses Putin he uses the Russian language's formal "вы" (like Spanish "usted" or German "Sie"), as opposed to the informal "ты" (like Spanish "tú" or German "du"). Abramovich says that the reason is 'he is more senior than me'.[52] Within the Kremlin, Abramovich is referred to as "Mr A".[53]

In September 2012, the England and Wales High Court judge Elizabeth Gloster claimed that Abramovich's influence on Putin was limited: "There was no evidential basis supporting the contention that Mr Abramovich was in a position to manipulate, or otherwise influence, President Putin, or officers in his administration, to exercise their powers in such a way as to enable Mr Abramovich to achieve his own commercial goals."[54]

Gloster oversaw the case between Russian oligarchs Boris Berezovsky and Abramovich. She found Berezovsky to be "an inherently unreliable witness" and sided with Abramovich in 2012. It later emerged that Gloster's stepson had been paid almost £500,000 to represent Abramovich as a barrister early in the case. Her stepson's involvement was alleged to be more than had been disclosed. Berezovsky stated, "Sometimes I have the impression that Putin himself wrote this judgment". Gloster declined to comment.[55][56][57]

U.S. media reports that the U.S. intelligence community believes Abramovich is a "bag carrier", a financial middleman, for Putin.[58]

Abramovich is one of many Russian "oligarchs" named in the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, CAATSA, signed into law by President Donald Trump in 2017.[59] He is one of the Navalny 35.[60

 

[GO-NAD!]

Over time, that could be saved pretty easily- save a bit here, a bit there, steal to sell for cash.....OTOH, Ukraine isn't exactly a squeaky-clean place, either- my friend who came to the US from Kyiv said he went back in '19 and the people were much more open & friendly, the place was much cleaner, more stores & shops existed and it was far easier to buy things that people want, rather than just scraping for the bare necessities as it was in the '70s. The kicker was when he said that the people were just as crooked as ever. He was there for vacation, but was told to move every two to 4 days and every time he did this, the last place was broken into. People talk, they knew he was here from the US and that he probably had things they could steal.

We never get the whole story. Russia or Ukraine- they're not different and Ukraine hasn't been independent for very long but as usual, it's the leaders who are making this happen.

The difference is that Ukraine is/was trying to improve it's transition to liberal democracy and the rule of law, whereas Russia is stuck in a closed loop of corruption.

 

[highfigh]

The difference is that Ukraine is/was trying to improve it's transition to liberal democracy and the rule of law, whereas Russia is stuck in a closed loop of corruption.

Old guard vs new- IMO, Moscow is too isolated from the outside world, kind of like hillbillies. They like things the way they are and the people in the suburbs want better.

Considering his level of experience, I think Zelenskyy is handling everything extremely well.

The Wiki link for him contains "In a March 2019 interview with Der Spiegel, Zelenskyy stated he went into politics to restore trust in politicians and that he wanted "to bring professional, decent people to power" and "would really like to change the mood and timbre of the political establishment, as much as possible" -

If it was only possible, here.......

 

[highfigh]

If they catch Putin, can we strap him onto something like this?

 

[haraldo]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499609870147932161

 

[SithZedi]

Over time, that could be saved pretty easily- save a bit here, a bit there, steal to sell for cash.....OTOH, Ukraine isn't exactly a squeaky-clean place, either- my friend who came to the US from Kyiv said he went back in '19 and the people were much more open & friendly, the place was much cleaner, more stores & shops existed and it was far easier to buy things that people want, rather than just scraping for the bare necessities as it was in the '70s. The kicker was when he said that the people were just as crooked as ever. He was there for vacation, but was told to move every two to 4 days and every time he did this, the last place was broken into. People talk, they knew he was here from the US and that he probably had things they could steal.

We never get the whole story. Russia or Ukraine- they're not different and Ukraine hasn't been independent for very long but as usual, it's the leaders who are making this happen.

Agree, before the war erupted, the corruption issues in both countries were rampant and will continue to be so. That's what made the Ukrainians exploitable to both the Russians and the West.
Most Americans have no idea what it's like to do business in countries like that. The ones that do have the experience have to either participate in the corruption or lose business to the people that do. Better not to play.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Agree, before the war erupted, the corruption issues in both countries were rampant and will continue to be so. That's what made the Ukrainians exploitable to both the Russians and the West.
Most Americans have no idea what it's like to do business in countries like that. The ones that do have the experience have to either participate in the corruption or lose business to the people that do. Better not to play.

And yet, Canada and the US have a free trade agreement with a country that scores worse for corruption than Ukraine.
Most Corrupt Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

 

[SithZedi]

And yet, Canada and the US have a free trade agreement with a country that scores worse for corruption than Ukraine.
Most Corrupt Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Affirmative. Not to be too flippant but that's one of the many reasons why they want to come to the US & Canada, to escape it...

 

[GO-NAD!]

Affirmative. Not to be too flippant but that's one of the many reasons why they want to come to the US & Canada, to escape it...

Coincidentally, I've been watching Narcos: Mexico recently.

 

[SithZedi]

Coincidentally, I've been watching Narcos: Mexico recently.

Many thanks for the reco. That's been on my list to binge, i am way behind, movies too.
Just finished Reacher and waiting for Moon Knight..
If you happen to be looking for the external movie night. I just had my first in two years last weekend.
Highly recommend:

 

[highfigh]

Affirmative. Not to be too flippant but that's one of the many reasons why they want to come to the US & Canada, to escape it...

That's not flippant, at all- I have heard it many times directly from former Russians and Ukrainians. The guy who sat next to me in Freshman Algebra came from Prague after the Soviets invaded and did a short Q&A with the class- when someone asked about how they lived, he said "We didn't live, we existed", sneering as he said 'existed'.