Russia - Ukraine

[TLS Guy]

The Ukrainians are fighting bravely.

I have been watching BBC news reports, that are far better then the US. There are hour long reports with reporters bravely embedded all over the country.

I watched the whole debate in the Mother of Parliaments yesterday, the House of Commons. The standard of debate was very high. Boris Johnson stated that most likely military intervention will be required.

There is video of a war crime by the Russians. There were three Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms. They were spotted and opened fire, but the Ukrainians killed all three stone dead. Wearing the enemies colors is not a war crime, but opening fire while wearing it is.

There was also footage of some Ukrainians blowing the the top right off a Russian tank, with a UK supplied antitank weapon. After that they shouted "God Save the Queen."

Judging by the comments in the newspapers, the tide is running against not sending in NATO troops to Ukraine. I now agree completely.

Finland and Sweden are neutral. Sweden has a long history of neutrality. Half of Finland the area round Kerala was under brutal Russian occupation for an extended period.

Sweden and Finland held emergency discussion with NATO about admission. Russia has threatened a massive military response if they do.

So this is going the way of 1939. Germany should have been stopped when Hitler reoccupied the Ruhr, and definitely when he annexed Czechoslovakia.

Now is the time to go in and reverse this Russian illegal attempt to annex the Ukraine. I think the longer action is delayed the greater the risk of nuclear war. British public opinion I think is going in that direction.

Putin needs to be killed or put in the dock of a war criminal trial ASAP. No good is going to come from prevarication.

It is time to ask, what would Churchill have done? I think we all know the answer.

It is time for the west to issue an ultimatum, to tell Russia to immediately withdraw all forces from Ukraine, or a state of war will exist between us.

 

[Danzilla31]

The Ukrainians are fighting bravely.

I have been watching BBC news reports, that are far better then the US. There are hour long reports with reporters bravely embedded all over the country.

I watched the whole debate in the Mother of Parliaments yesterday, the House of Commons. The standard of debate was very high. Boris Johnson stated that most likely military intervention will be required.

There is video of a war crime by the Russians. There were three Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms. They were spotted and opened fire, but the Ukrainians killed all three stone dead. Wearing the enemies colors is not a war crime, but opening fire while wearing it is.

There was also footage of some Ukrainians blowing the the top right off a Russian tank, with a UK supplied antitank weapon. After that they shouted "God Save the Queen."

Judging by the comments in the newspapers, the tide is running against not sending in NATO troops to Ukraine. I now agree completely.

Finland and Sweden are neutral. Sweden has a long history of neutrality. Half of Finland the area round Kerala was under brutal Russian occupation for an extended period.

Sweden and Finland held emergency discussion with NATO about admission. Russia has threatened a massive military response if they do.

So this is going the way of 1939. Germany should have been stopped when Hitler reoccupied the Ruhr, and definitely when he annexed Czechoslovakia.

Now is the time to go in and reverse this Russian illegal attempt to annex the Ukraine. I think the longer action is delayed the greater the risk of nuclear war. British public opinion I think is going in that direction.

Putin needs to be killed or put in the dock of a war criminal trial ASAP. No good is going to come from prevarication.

It is time to ask, what would Churchill have done? I think we all know the answer.

It is time for the west to issue an ultimatum, to tell Russia to immediately withdraw all forces from Ukraine, or a state of war will exist between us.

They are fighting bravely

When the Ukraine president was offered a chance to evacuate he said I need anti tank ammo not a ride. What a brave tough people

Who knows what our governments will decide but it's starting to look like your spot on with this.

Putin looks like he wont stop after Ukraine especially with his remarks about neighboring countries joining Nato and as someone just posted his constant threat of using nukes if anyone stands up to him.

I feel eventually someone will be forced to call him on his talk. I think its looking like he will push the West into being forced to respond. If he's not bluffing then we will just have to be at peace with the fact that him and his people will be coming along with us.

Jeez who knows tho. Anything could happen. It just all depends on the Western governments resolve on committing to this

 

[Danzilla31]

Interesting that Azerbaijan refused to send troops to Ukraine, nor would it recognize those two independent states Putin claims as independent.

Oh, should we worry about his pointedly mentioning his nuclear arsenal?

I've noticed he as in Putin loves to use that as his ace in the hole.

Sooner or later someone will get sick of his aggression and call him on it by standing up to him

I worry though with his ability to hack into infrastructure with cyberattacks things of that nature. He seems awfully confident about threatening with nukes. Maybe he has a way to compromise our ability to respond? Or he could just be bluffing or acting so crazy he thinks no one will want to go against him

 

[Danzilla31]

Interesting that Azerbaijan refused to send troops to Ukraine, nor would it recognize those two independent states Putin claims as independent.

Oh, should we worry about his pointedly mentioning his nuclear arsenal?

You made me think of this article I was reading

Russian Nuclear Exercise a Reminder That Nuclear Deterrence Isn’t Relic of Past

Moscow announced Friday it would begin massive nuclear drills over the weekend that will entail practice launches of its intercontinental ballistic missiles and cruise missiles.

www.heritage.org

 

[Danzilla31]

Here's another good article about maybe why he acts so cocky about his threat of nukes

Russia’s Small Nukes Are a Big Problem

If asked, most Americans probably believe the U.S. and Russia are pretty evenly matched on nuclear weapons due to arms control treaties such as the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty—aka New START. That’s not exactly correct.

www.heritage.org

 

[gene]

The Ukrainians are fighting bravely.

I have been watching BBC news reports, that are far better then the US. There are hour long reports with reporters bravely embedded all over the country.

I watched the whole debate in the Mother of Parliaments yesterday, the House of Commons. The standard of debate was very high. Boris Johnson stated that most likely military intervention will be required.

There is video of a war crime by the Russians. There were three Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms. They were spotted and opened fire, but the Ukrainians killed all three stone dead. Wearing the enemies colors is not a war crime, but opening fire while wearing it is.

There was also footage of some Ukrainians blowing the the top right off a Russian tank, with a UK supplied antitank weapon. After that they shouted "God Save the Queen."

Judging by the comments in the newspapers, the tide is running against not sending in NATO troops to Ukraine. I now agree completely.

Finland and Sweden are neutral. Sweden has a long history of neutrality. Half of Finland the area round Kerala was under brutal Russian occupation for an extended period.

Sweden and Finland held emergency discussion with NATO about admission. Russia has threatened a massive military response if they do.

So this is going the way of 1939. Germany should have been stopped when Hitler reoccupied the Ruhr, and definitely when he annexed Czechoslovakia.

Now is the time to go in and reverse this Russian illegal attempt to annex the Ukraine. I think the longer action is delayed the greater the risk of nuclear war. British public opinion I think is going in that direction.

Putin needs to be killed or put in the dock of a war criminal trial ASAP. No good is going to come from prevarication.

It is time to ask, what would Churchill have done? I think we all know the answer.

It is time for the west to issue an ultimatum, to tell Russia to immediately withdraw all forces from Ukraine, or a state of war will exist between us.

The problem is a majority of the Republican Party and Conservative media and our former President have sided with Putin. I never thought I'd see the day where any major political party in the USA would side with our enemy.

 

[Danzilla31]

The problem is a majority of the Republican Party and Conservative media and our former President have sided with Putin. I never thought I'd see the day where any major political party in the USA would side with our enemy.

This is the second cold war much more dangerous then the first. A Russia and China aggressively pursuing there agendas with a rapid rebuild to modernize there military and nuclear forces and put them on par with the West. A gap which is rapidly narrowing

The last 2 to 3 years I never thought I'd side with the Democrats on just about anything but I'm 100% in agreement with this. This is something we have to unify against.

But if we do this we have to do it right

We have to get as much manufacturing and oil and energy dependency away from both these countries

It's the one place in his comments I have to give Trump credit for is his comments about these sanctions. They are not really effective if you cant sanction them where it matters.

NATO can't sanction Russia in the oil and energy because a lot of countries are dependent on Russia for this

We can't hit Russia with Swift because of the same thing they could retaliate by closing down the pipeline

The sanctions now will hurt but they can ride it out or strike deals with China and Arabian countries who were conspicuously absent on there vote to condemn Russias actions. Suprise suprise anyone?

We have to modernize our nuclear capabilities and our low yield tactical nukes that can be utilized in the field Russia has a 10:1 advantage over us there.

We got to find ways to break away from supporting these countries with our money. We're literally paying for them to improve on kicking our a$$.

We also with the gravity of the situation may need to put some of our agendas on climate change clean energy and reducing our nuclear capabilities for awhile on hold until this is resolved or stale mated.

We will need to prioritize and spend more on strengthening our military than we'd like to

In case we haven't noticed were the only ones playing by the rules here. Russia and China are not only breaking the rules they're doing it to beat us.

This could be the issue that gets Democrats back into the elections coming up in 2022.
The Rebulicans idiotic stance on Covid when the majority of Americans obviously cared about it cost them 2020 and the Senate

Republicans position on this could be the one that costs them in 2022.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Any maps of the war thus far? What's been attacked, what's being countered or developed? I've heard night goggles for Ukraine while Russia sleeps at night etc. Not sure if that's real. Seems Russia would have night goggles themselves.

 

[John Parks]

This is the second cold war much more dangerous then the first. A Russia and China aggressively pursuing there agendas with a rapid rebuild to modernize there military and nuclear forces and put them on par with the West. A gap which is rapidly narrowing

The last 2 to 3 years I never thought I'd side with the Democrats on just about anything but I'm 100% in agreement with this. This is something we have to unify against.

But if we do this we have to do it right

We have to get as much manufacturing and oil and energy dependency away from both these countries

It's the one place in his comments I have to give Trump credit for is his comments about these sanctions. They are not really effective if you cant sanction them where it matters.

NATO can't sanction Russia in the oil and energy because a lot of countries are dependent on Russia for this

We can't hit Russia with Swift because of the same thing they could retaliate by closing down the pipeline

The sanctions now will hurt but they can ride it out or strike deals with China and Arabian countries who were conspicuously absent on there vote to condemn Russias actions. Suprise suprise anyone?

We have to modernize our nuclear capabilities and our low yield tactical nukes that can be utilized in the field Russia has a 10:1 advantage over us there.

We got to find ways to break away from supporting these countries with our money. We're literally paying for them to improve on kicking our a$$.

We also with the gravity of the situation may need to put some of our agendas on climate change clean energy and reducing our nuclear capabilities for awhile on hold until this is resolved or stale mated.

We will need to prioritize and spend more on strengthening our military than we'd like to

In case we haven't noticed were the only ones playing by the rules here. Russia and China are not only breaking the rules they're doing it to beat us.

This could be the issue that gets Democrats back into the elections coming up in 2022.
The Rebulicans idiotic stance on Covid when the majority of Americans obviously cared about it cost them 2020 and the Senate

Republicans position on this could be the one that costs them in 2022.

I've seen talk about the "Republicans, Trump and conservative media" supporting Putin (mostly on these pages). Can you point to any actual examples of them doing so? Of course, their opposition (democrats, most of the media) will say so, but I mean direct quotes and such. Now, there has been plenty of well deserved ridicule for the current administration (I have supplied some of it myself) but criticizing HPiC Biden is not the same as supporting Vlad the Elder.

 

[highfigh]

As a Westener, its too easy to criticize the Russian people as we have not lived in their shoes, experienced the fear that they have lived in for most of their lives. The younger generation are far more aware of whats out in the world than the older generation and want a better life. They are making up the protest movement against Putin.

Older Russians leave, too. A friend ran a computer store and since he's originally from Kyiv, he had a strong large group of customers from that region, partially because he speaks the language and it was a lot easier for them to communicate than if they had gone to a place where the staff only speaks English. I met several of these older customers and having known Ilya for over 40 years, we talked about life in the USSR vs the US, quite a bit. Old or young, they left because they didn't like living under Communism, especially the USSR version. One woman was there with her son and told my friend that she was taking her son to Russia to see family/friends and show him their way of life and he said that maybe they could adopt some of them. Her instant reaction was "Not in my house!". Others made it clear that they may not be rich, but what they had here was theirs, not owned by the government. They like the freedoms they have here.

It's easy to like life when the government lies about the outside world but many are disillusioned when they learn the reality. Russians have the ability to see what their government allows them to see but as always, contraband gets through and when they compare the two, one will be seen as better.

One thing that did change over time- these people were not in favor of where they saw the US going in recent years.

 

[highfigh]

What do you figure "Biden's thinking" is and how does it differ from what the "rest of the world thinks"? It seems to me that Biden was a Cassandra on Putin's intentions. The talking heads on the right called him a warmonger for predicting what the Russians were going to do. Putin simply does not want Ukraine in the western orbit where it would have a chance to democratize and develop their economy, increasing living standards for her people. Ukraine may have wanted to join NATO, but no such offer had been made. NATO is a purely defensive organization, with no reason to attack Russia. Putin knows this, but is just inventing BS excuses to invade Ukraine. The only thing protecting the Baltic states from the same fate is NATO membership.

Blaming Biden, NATO or "The West" in general is just more misinformation.

Along with what would become a bit of a physical buffer, Putin probably wants to reap the benefits of what Ukraine has to offer the rest of the World, shown in this link-

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/ukr/

He's basically saying "You made me do this!" but the one common comment from the former Russians I have met- "Putin CAN NOT be trusted".

 

[highfigh]

I find a map is helpful. After the collapse of the USSR, most all of the Cold War Iron Curtain countries joined NATO. All except Belarus, Ukraine, and some parts of the former Yugoslavia. That speaks volumes about what they thought after being dominated by the USSR for 46 years.

Because Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania might be Putin's next targets, Sweden and Finland have good reason to rethink their neutrality.
View attachment 54178

Why would he go after NATO countries when he knows that attacking them would bring a response from NATO member countries?

 

[highfigh]

I think Norway and Finland should apply to join NATO without the knowledge of Putin, to protect themselves and stop him in his foolish ideas and actions.

I wonder why they hadn't joined them.

According to the Wiki entry for NATO, it shows Russia is a 'Partner for peace"- maybe it's time for someone to tell Putin.

NATO - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Alex2507]

a state of war will exist between us.

No need for formality. The killing is already happening. GIVE the Kremlin the keys to the neutral countries and absolutely annihilate everything even remotely Red in every single country except Russia, Switzerland and Finland. Go be f^$%&ing neutral someplace else.

Can you point to any actual examples

Google search: trump likes putin

trump likes putin - Google Search

www.google.com

I'm not gonna watch or read any of that but NOT seeing the bromance seems ... I don't even know. Their love was real once.

 

[GO-NAD!]

This is just too bizarre.

‘I’ll Stand on the Side of Russia’: Pro-Putin Sentiment Spreads Online (Published 2022)

After marinating in conspiracy theories and Donald J. Trump’s Russia stance, some online discourse about Vladimir Putin has grown more complimentary.

www.nytimes.com

 

[3db]

The Ukrainians are fighting bravely.

I have been watching BBC news reports, that are far better then the US. There are hour long reports with reporters bravely embedded all over the country.

I watched the whole debate in the Mother of Parliaments yesterday, the House of Commons. The standard of debate was very high. Boris Johnson stated that most likely military intervention will be required.

There is video of a war crime by the Russians. There were three Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms. They were spotted and opened fire, but the Ukrainians killed all three stone dead. Wearing the enemies colors is not a war crime, but opening fire while wearing it is.

There was also footage of some Ukrainians blowing the the top right off a Russian tank, with a UK supplied antitank weapon. After that they shouted "God Save the Queen."

Judging by the comments in the newspapers, the tide is running against not sending in NATO troops to Ukraine. I now agree completely.

Finland and Sweden are neutral. Sweden has a long history of neutrality. Half of Finland the area round Kerala was under brutal Russian occupation for an extended period.

Sweden and Finland held emergency discussion with NATO about admission. Russia has threatened a massive military response if they do.

So this is going the way of 1939. Germany should have been stopped when Hitler reoccupied the Ruhr, and definitely when he annexed Czechoslovakia.

Now is the time to go in and reverse this Russian illegal attempt to annex the Ukraine. I think the longer action is delayed the greater the risk of nuclear war. British public opinion I think is going in that direction.

Putin needs to be killed or put in the dock of a war criminal trial ASAP. No good is going to come from prevarication.

It is time to ask, what would Churchill have done? I think we all know the answer.

It is time for the west to issue an ultimatum, to tell Russia to immediately withdraw all forces from Ukraine, or a state of war will exist between us.

In Churchill's days there were no nukes. You dont go into a war half cocked . The idea is to beat back Russia with the lowest cost of civilian casualties without promoting nucleur war. I too would love to see Putin assinated but its got to be done by a non government sanctioned operation. Having the CIA do it paints a target on every Western leader's head. The West made a grave tactical error by not allowing Ukraine partial admission into NATO.

Lets see how Putin reacts when he can no longer afford high class hookers (because of his personal assetts being frozen) having to resort to toothless vodka infused dime store hookers for his personal entertainment.

 

[SithZedi]

This is just too bizarre.

‘I’ll Stand on the Side of Russia’: Pro-Putin Sentiment Spreads Online (Published 2022)

After marinating in conspiracy theories and Donald J. Trump’s Russia stance, some online discourse about Vladimir Putin has grown more complimentary.

www.nytimes.com

Are we really going to fall for the media's attempt to say that the Repubs are Pro Putin? Has not any thought at all that they are trying to distract the public?
A hat tip or respect to your enemy has always been a part of warfare by Western countries. And that happens in just about every war.
It happened all the time in WW1 and WW2. If you must google, than look up Patton & Montgomery comments on Rommel. Look up Grant vs Lee, on and on....Grant must have been pro Confederacy! On my lord.

If we want to apportion blame for what has happened in the Ukraine we should start with Putin. Then, as in any war, there are multiple things the West did wrong to with respect to the Ukraine starting in 1994 that led to this.
As well as hating Putin, the West should be ashamed of itself for what is going on in the streets of Kyiv.

 

[Bernie Williams]

Ukraine is showing what bravery and leadership looks like, same can't be said for NATO or the US

 

[Swerd]

The problem is a majority of the Republican Party and Conservative media and our former President have sided with Putin. I never thought I'd see the day where any major political party in the USA would side with our enemy.

It's quite some time ago that the GOP stopped being the 'party of Lincoln'. Now they're making Tricky Dicky and Joe McCarthy roll over in their graves.

 

[TLS Guy]

Kyiv held firm last night after very bloody fighting.

China seems to be putting distance between themselves and the Russians. This will have to followed with interest.

The Germans seem to be the biggest hold out to blocking Russia from Swift, as that is how they pay for their gas. Pressure is building on them.

There is growing dissent against this war in the Russian parliament. Voices are rising from the age old excuse, "they did not know what they were voting for!"

Interestingly the French have seized a Russian freighter in the English Channel. If that sea route has been closed to the Russians, that will be a new development.