15x25’ new home theater budget 20k ish

[Cbakes]

Hi everyone, anyone… I’m trying to make selections on sound, screen size and type, and projector. I want the sound to blow the crowd away. Loud is great but clean is a must. Looking for the sound to come from all directions. Is Dolby atmos 9.2.4 the best way to go? I have some photos of the arc plan. I’ve also pre wired the entire room in ceiling (which are vaulted), walls, and also front left and right of room speakers and subs as well. Didn’t know if I would go with a/c powered subs or the other kind (whatever they’re called) is like to do the largest screen that makes sense for the size of room I have to work with. It can be retractable or fixed frame. Seating is possible from the front of the room to the last headrest at 21’ from the screen. I’m sure I can do two rows of seating but id like to do 3 if possible, but also would like some floor space in front for kids and bean bags. The seats have to be 61” apart from head to head I believe. Last but not least is projector, I was leaning Sony 4K HDR. Thoughts? Thank you for anyone that can help me!! There’s too many brands for everything and it’s completely overwhelming me.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi everyone, anyone… I’m trying to make selections on sound, screen size and type, and projector. I want the sound to blow the crowd away. Loud is great but clean is a must. Looking for the sound to come from all directions. Is Dolby atmos 9.2.4 the best way to go? I have some photos of the arc plan. I’ve also pre wired the entire room in ceiling (which are vaulted), walls, and also front left and right of room speakers and subs as well. Didn’t know if I would go with a/c powered subs or the other kind (whatever they’re called) is like to do the largest screen that makes sense for the size of room I have to work with. It can be retractable or fixed frame. Seating is possible from the front of the room to the last headrest at 21’ from the screen. I’m sure I can do two rows of seating but id like to do 3 if possible, but also would like some floor space in front for kids and bean bags. The seats have to be 61” apart from head to head I believe. Last but not least is projector, I was leaning Sony 4K HDR. Thoughts? Thank you for anyone that can help me!! There’s too many brands for everything and it’s completely overwhelming me.

Questions. Do you have any experience of AV set up and installation?

What stage is this room at? Are the walls still open?

How are the walls vaulted? Can you provide photographs of the room.

Did you allow for tiered seating?

What wire of type and gauge have you placed so far? Is it in conduit as it should and needs to be?

HT like you describe is a lot of work, and requires experience and very careful planning.

I think your budget is way too low to "blow people away." This will be a very expensive project.

Your options are 5.2. 7.2 5.2.2. 5.2.4. 7.2.2. 7.2.4. I would not put more speakers than the last option in that sized room, otherwise speakers will be in too close proximity.

The most important speaker in an AV room is the center speaker. The problem is that there are very few good ones on the market. Most are hopeless because of a center tweeter flanked by two mid/woofers known as horizontal MTM, which is a bad formula and leads to poor dialog unless you are right in front of the speaker.

Now, fewer better speakers beats out more poorer speakers any day. If the room is built out properly, then speakers can always be added later.

Your room is little smaller than the room I built two and a half years ago. I just about got three rows in. Even then the third row is a little close to the rear.

You have quite a big space to fill, I do not know how much the vaulted ceilings contribute to the volume of the space.

If you can, it makes for a much better installation if you can get behind the equipment so you have a mechanical chase behind the AV gear.

It is also a good idea to make the AV installation the hub of the base and center of the home Ethernet infrastructure.

My impression so far, is that this is a high volume space. If you want the sound to blow people away, then you are likely to require a lot of power, and going with separate power amplification is likely to be required. I have a feeling you will not power it with a receiver, at least to blow people away.

In that room two rows of seats would be best if you want that space you talk about up front. Three rows would be tight and probably not comfortable.

I documented our home build out and the construction of the three systems here. We moved our AV room in our previous home on Benedict Lake MN, to our new home in Eagan. This might give you an idea of what is involved.

This was the result.

I did change the ceiling speakers to an updated more powerful version of the JW driver from Mark Audio. Luckily the same sealed enclosure was optimal for both.

 

[RedCharles]

Goto Projector Central. Look up throw distance.

I've done a fair amount of research. Lcos is best.

JVCs have better contrast and 1900 lumens. Don't know about their newest models other than some of them have 8k. I was going to get an NX5 but it couldn't quite do 120 inches in my room. Lens memory.

Sonys have relatively low input lag at 30 ms (for gaming) , reality creation (good for gaming too), a slightly wider lens than the JVC. It may be best to get a projector from a dealer. Shop around. I got my 295 es for 3400 on Amazon warehouse. Downsides are 6000-10000 to 1 contrast and 1500 lumens output for the 295. I think the 325 may be the same except for improved tone mapping. The 695 is brighter and has an iris and lens memory. I literally had to go into secret menus and make a number of changes to the 295 es until I was satisfied enough with the picture to keep it.

I think the 695 es or an NX5, or whatever the new model is may be best for the size and distance of your room.

TLS is right, center speakers suck. But you may need one to get the screen closer to eye level. IIRC you want the bottom 1/3 of the screen to be at eye level. Getting the screen to the right height is the only legit reason not go with a real speaker. An SVS ultra bookshelf is better by far than an SVS Ultra Center. Also don't mix and match the Left Center Right channels, get the same brand and speaker line for LCR.

I am experimenting with a Vertex 2 and panny 820 tomorrow. Essentially the vertex 2 spoofs the edid to allow a projector to display Dolby Vision. LLDV is done on the player and not the TV now, so the vertex 2 tricks the player into sending a DV signal. The player to get is the Sony X800 m2. Lots of 2019 posts will say to get the Panasonic, and that is a good player for projectors, but it cant force Dolby Vision like the X800m2. I haven't used it, but apparently this combination can force Dolby vision on everything. According to reputable dudes on other forums, the vertex 2 is a must have for projector owners.

And why is this important? Because HDR disc's are often mastered at say 4000 nits. An average 4k HDR TV is going to do like 600 nits. DV knows this and adjusts the image to the capabilities of your TV. A bright TV can do like 1500 nits last I checked. Projectors are capable of a whopping 150 nits or so. So getting HDR to work well on a projector is tough. The Panasonic 820 has specific settings for projectors and HDR. But I'll let you know if this vertex 2 is really the game changer people say it is.

I should mention that the 295es projectors is plenty bright for SDR blue rays. HDR is where the struggle is for all projectors.

Screen size is constrained by your wall size and projector throw. With that said, I wanted 40+ degrees. I researched a lot and 40ish degrees is the like being in the center of the theater.

Viewing Distance Calculator - Metric

Viewing Distance Calculator

www.hometheaterengineering.com

I have a motorized screen because I have a TV behind. If this is a dedicated HT, and not a living room, I see no reason for a retractable screen.

Once you've nailed the size of screen based on viewing angle. Pick a projector and look at the throw distance calculator on projector central, scroll down and see if you will have enough light based on the screen size and distance.The screen can also aid your brightness. Some screens reflect more light which is referred to as screen gain. I should ask if you want 16x9 or a 2.35:1 screen.

Also projectors lose brightness over time, and their bulbs must be replaced. Some projectors have lasers which last 10 times as long, but they're expensive.

There are some really, really bright projectors out there. But theyre DLP. Spinning color wheels. E shift 4k. Crappy contrast. Not all super bright projectors are crappy, but you may not need that extra brightness at the expensive of deep blacks that would get from a JVC.

Projectors also function as space heaters.

I wrote this on my phone. Sorry for any errors.

 

[Cbakes]

TLS Guy and Red Charles, thank you for the massive amount of information. I’m in the middle of an addition and rehab on my existing home. So the electronics for the theater is not something I had an immense amount of time to plan, although I know enough to at least get the cabling in. To answer some of the questions: yes the drywall Is up. No the wiring to speaker placements are not in conduit (F*%K!) however I did run dedicated power and I think it’s called cat 6 or something like that to projector area. Also ran an 1 1/2” flex line there for whatever I would need but didn’t know about yet. All of these wires terminate in the ab closet located just outside theater in the hall. I must admit I’m a lot lost in all the model numbers and “nits” and most other technical terminology you guys gave me. Who wants to come fishing in Florida and help me set this up?!! Lol I’m not a “gamer” but would like to have the capability. More interested in a quality movie pic that won’t be blurry when camera shots moves around in a film. I am attaching a few more photos as requested. The ceiling vaults out at 12’6”. There was some extra space up too behind the crowd that could be used for something if there was a need. Currently the projector platform is 17’ back from where a fixed mount screen would go. Yes it is a dedicated theater. I also am going to do stadium seating but not sure how high the second row should be from the first. Thanks guys! Of course it won’t let me upload pics. All
Of a sudden they are to large happy to email them. Thank you again!!

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS Guy and Red Charles, thank you for the massive amount of information. I’m in the middle of an addition and rehab on my existing home. So the electronics for the theater is not something I had an immense amount of time to plan, although I know enough to at least get the cabling in. To answer some of the questions: yes the drywall Is up. No the wiring to speaker placements are not in conduit (F*%K!) however I did run dedicated power and I think it’s called cat 6 or something like that to projector area. Also ran an 1 1/2” flex line there for whatever I would need but didn’t know about yet. All of these wires terminate in the ab closet located just outside theater in the hall. I must admit I’m a lot lost in all the model numbers and “nits” and most other technical terminology you guys gave me. Who wants to come fishing in Florida and help me set this up?!! Lol I’m not a “gamer” but would like to have the capability. More interested in a quality movie pic that won’t be blurry when camera shots moves around in a film. I am attaching a few more photos as requested. The ceiling vaults out at 12’6”. There was some extra space up too behind the crowd that could be used for something if there was a need. Currently the projector platform is 17’ back from where a fixed mount screen would go. Yes it is a dedicated theater. I also am going to do stadium seating but not sure how high the second row should be from the first. Thanks guys! Of course it won’t let me upload pics. All
Of a sudden they are to large happy to email them. Thank you again!!

Well, the projector will need an HDMI cable and it will need to be a hybrid optical/copper active cable based on length. The optical part carries the video and the copper the audio. These are directional cables as the optical sending unit needs to be at the sending end and the converter at the projector end.

It won't be long before all speakers need an Ethernet cable and AC power. There are changes in the wind, which is why conduit is so important.

You will need to make sure that closet is well ventilated. Closets are not good for AV installations.

You really should have posted here before any building started. I just wonder how many more rookie mistakes are going to turn up here.

 

[RedCharles]

I just wonder how many more rookie mistakes are going to turn up here.

He's just going to have to work with the constraints that he's created.
He can still create a bitchin' home theater since it's dedicated.

HDR is a larger color palette. Blu Ray, 1080P era, 8 bit, SDR images have millions of colors. 4k, 10bit HDR, 12 Bit Dolby Vision have billions of colors. What this means in practical terms is that images have the quality of being there. Skin tones are much, much better. Bright whites, like a sunset are bright bright like they should be, and this is where the nits come in. With HDR, things like eyes can have a much more realistic presentation because of the vast amount of different whites that can be displayed, and some of these whites can be very, very bright. HDR can also create increased detail in dark, shadowy areas of the image if your contrast level is good enough.

However, because projectors can't get as bright as TVs, the color palette is shifted down, and the image can look very dark as a result. All 4k projectors from Sony and JVC have tone mapping built in, however, not all tone mapping is created equally. For instance, the Sony 325es has better tone mapping than the 295es, and produces a better image, but otherwise the two projectors are the same. Sony charges $500 more for the 325es. Tone mapping brightens and darkens the appropriate areas of the image with magic math. The Panasonic 820 has better tone mapping abilities than many others because it has specific projector settings. Up until the introduction of the Vertex 2, the Panasonic 820 and 1000 disc players were the best for projectors because of their tone mapping abilities. However, if what the guys on AVS are saying is true, then the Sony x800 m2 is the way to go because it can force Dolby vision on everything in conjunction with the vertex 2.

I'm thinking right now, that the JVC NX5 is probably the best projector for you. They're not cheap. I have heard of people getting them for cheaper through dealers. You may want to get on the AVSforum and talk to those guys about projectors before you pull the trigger. There are some real experts over there.

There's also calibration, which for hundreds of dollars, someone will come to your house and dial in your projector. Some people speak very highly of some guy named Chad B. Projectors are finicky. Each one is a little different. I like fiddling with projectors, but I also like fiddling with carbs and timing on a hot rod. May not be your thing. But a projector out of the box will not perform at it's best; it needs to be fiddled with and dialed in. I freaking love projectors. I think they're totally rad.

Make sure you paint you home theater with a low sheen, low LRV, dark paint. You could use a flat paint, but flat paint is very difficult to clean. The more light that reflects off the walls, the worse your contrast ratio will be.

Maybe someone can chime in on Subs. I'm an SVS guy, but maybe someone has better options for him.

 

[ryanosaur]

You almost need 20K for the theater and PJ, and another 20K for the Speakers.
I'm a SQ guy and would be happy with a nice TV. Oh, and I don't need 3 rows of seats and all that...

Anyway, if you want high quality blow-em-away sound, You should look at JTR for your front 3 at least, but he also does surrounds and such. They aren't the prettiest, but I have never heard a person complain about them.

Subs are very important and you could probably get all the impact you need from a couple Monolith 16s from Monoprice. That said, if you are in control of the design, you could also use Devastators from GSG to give you the mid bass impact while using another design for ULF content... If you are a Bass Junky, then have somebody build you a ULF design with these from Stereo Integrity... JTRs Subs are also very well regarded.

In short... I wasn't joking about blowing your wad twice over. The kicker really comes down to what you are going to compromise on to close the deal. I'm not going to endeavor to tell you what to focus on.
The caveat is that weak sound will ruin the experience more than many other aspects, imo. I've been in many theaters that aren't DARK and I don't find that distracting. Bad sound makes me want to leave.

 

[ryanosaur]

Now, fewer better speakers beats out more poorer speakers any day. If the room is built out properly, then speakers can always be added later.

THIS!!!

 

[RedCharles]

I'm in it around 13000 for Av gear. I bought a lot of stuff on sale, open box, demo unit, and I saved around 6000. So if you look at my Av gear in the signature, under living room, and pay retail, that's how much gear you can get for 19k.


I don't think he needs to spend 40k on gear.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm in it around 13000 for Av gear. I bought a lot of stuff on sale, open box, demo unit, and I saved around 6000. So if you look at my Av gear in the signature, under living room, and pay retail, that's how much gear you can get for 19k.


I don't think he needs to spend 40k on gear.

Not on gear alone, but furniture and other build out costs can jump hard if not careful.

 

[RedCharles]

The way I read it was that he had a 20k budget for gear.

 

[ryanosaur]

The way I read it was that he had a 20k budget for gear.

I didn't want to presume.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When it comes to PJ, BOTH black levels/contrast AND color-brightness are the 2 salient factors - a lot more significant and important than whether the resolution is 4K vs 4K-eShift vs 8K-eShift. This is even more important when we use big screens above 120” because bigger screens require a lot more lumens.

Try to find someone with one of the new Epson EB-PU1006W 6,000-Lumen 4K (eShift) HDR Laser PJ. The 7,000, 8,000 and 10,000-lumen models aren’t out yet, but should be out hopefully by summer.

I have the EB-PU1006W and I used to own the JVC NX5. I have friends who own the NX7 and NX9.

All these other PJ look very DIM/DARK compared to the EB-PU1006W. I think once you’ve witness these high-lumen Epson 4K Laser PJ, you will never want anything less bright.

I am already dreaming about the Epson 8,000-lumen PJ.

 

[shadyJ]

For loudspeakers in that budget, I would be looking pretty closely at Arendal 1723 series. Polk R700s plus a L400 center speaker would be very good as well. Paradigm Premier is a solid bet as well. For some high-value subs, look at Hsu VTF15h or Monoprice Monolith subs. A set of Arendal 1723 monitors for the front stage would be killer. No need to spend nearly as much on surrounds. I would be looking at 1961 heights for the height channels and 1961 bookshelf speakers for the base level channels. For subs, I would go for a quad drive of Hsu VTF-3s or VTF15hs. For a processor, I would get whatever is available from Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha, since supplies are so unpredictable at the moment.

 

[Cbakes]

We shall

Well, the projector will need an HDMI cable and it will need to be a hybrid optical/copper active cable based on length. The optical part carries the video and the copper the audio. These are directional cables as the optical sending unit needs to be at the sending end and the converter at the projector end.

It won't be long before all speakers need an Ethernet cable and AC power. There are changes in the wind, which is why conduit is so important.

You will need to make sure that closet is well ventilated. Closets are not good for AV installations.

You really should have posted here before any building started. I just wonder how many more rookie mistakes are going to turn up here.

We shall see! Nothing would surprise me at this point. I’m hoping I can get a great theater for how it’s set up at this point. Worst case scenario cut out and patch drywall. On the center speaker, is that better at eye level or in the ceiling?

 

[ryanosaur]

We shall

We shall see! Nothing would surprise me at this point. I’m hoping I can get a great theater for how it’s set up at this point. Worst case scenario cut out and patch drywall. On the center speaker, is that better at eye level or in the ceiling?

None of the Bed Layer Speakers should be in the ceiling. If you want believable sound placement, you need to follow the recommendations like you posted in the OP.

 

[Cbakes]

You almost need 20K for the theater and PJ, and another 20K for the Speakers.
I'm a SQ guy and would be happy with a nice TV. Oh, and I don't need 3 rows of seats and all that...

Anyway, if you want high quality blow-em-away sound, You should look at JTR for your front 3 at least, but he also does surrounds and such. They aren't the prettiest, but I have never heard a person complain about them.

Subs are very important and you could probably get all the impact you need from a couple Monolith 16s from Monoprice. That said, if you are in control of the design, you could also use Devastators from GSG to give you the mid bass impact while using another design for ULF content... If you are a Bass Junky, then have somebody build you a ULF design with these from Stereo Integrity... JTRs Subs are also very well regarded.

In short... I wasn't joking about blowing your wad twice over. The kicker really comes down to what you are going to compromise on to close the deal. I'm not going to endeavor to tell you what to focus on.
The caveat is that weak sound will ruin the experience more than many other aspects, imo. I've been in many theaters that aren't DARK and I don't find that distracting. Bad sound makes me want to leave.

Agreed on not doing bad sound! I can blow the budget twice if I need to. With that said if I could spread it out a little and threw 25 at it now and 15 or 20 again later to finish. What’s the best route to go? Get the Pj and the right screen first and see what’s left for audio? What is the largest screen I can go with if the front row is at 10’ from the screen? And same question with 15’ as first row. Thanks guys! Your all an amazing help!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Agreed on not doing bad sound! I can blow the budget twice if I need to. With that said if I could spread it out a little and threw 25 at it now and 15 or 20 again later to finish. What’s the best route to go? Get the Pj and the right screen first and see what’s left for audio? What is the largest screen I can go with if the front row is at 10’ from the screen? And same question with 15’ as first row. Thanks guys! Your all an amazing help!!

My room is 26ft x 22ft x 14ft. My viewing distance is 18ft away from the screen. I have a 150" Screen.

It looks kind of small in my room.

But I think with 10-15ft distance, 150" is probably good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think it's best to PLAN the ENTIRE room first before buying anything.

Freestanding speakers vs in-wall vs on-wall? How many speakers?

Freestanding subwoofers vs in-ceiling subwoofers? How many subs?

Regular PJ Screen vs Acoustic-Transparent Screen?

Quantity of speakers vs Quality of speakers for the same price? For example, for my 26ft x 22ft x 14ft room, I have a 5.2.4 Atmos system. I don't feel like I am "missing out" on any sound even though my system is not 9.2.6. I prefer to get giant towers, but few speakers, instead of getting smaller speakers.

Everyone has a different preference. You have to decide that for yourself.

But definitely plan the entire system first from top to bottom before buying anything.

 

[Cbakes]

My room is 26ft x 22ft x 14ft. My viewing distance is 18ft away from the screen. I have a 150" Screen.

It looks kind of small in my room.

But I think with 10-15ft distance, 150" is probably good.

Lol omg it looks tiny In there! Do you think 150” would be good for my theater? Is there a trade off for picture quality to have a screen that sound goes through?