$2000 Warm Amplifiers (Solved) Issue caused by Operator Ignorance :)

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for the reply lovinthehd


For my very close nearfield listening, in a situation like mine where the speakers need to be up high on wall mounts down at an angle, so they can clear the computer monitors that surround me? Now that I separated the table from the wall and the speaker could be on a regular speaker stand, they still need to be above my computer monitors down at an angle towards me, I don't even know if they sell that kind of speaker stands. I'm very happy with the way the Elacs sound, now that they sound just like they did before by turning the treble knob a bit down, but if there are speakers out there that sounds much better for more money, in my unique situation I wouldn't mind trying.
It's always in the speakers. If you're looking for a certain sound switching amps is almost never the answer. You gotta switch gears and start comparing different speakers.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Especially in the $2k range!
Thanks for the reply Pogre!

I tried the Harbeth P3ESR and those were in the $2000 range and perfect for my nearfield situation but it didn't sound better than the Elacs to me. What else is out there for my situation at that price range?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Not yet but I will, thanks for the link lovinthehd
That would be good because it could help explain why the A-S801 behaved differently vs the A-S501 with your Elac speakers that are not very efficient in terms of spl/W in your specific application.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
That would be good because it could help explain why the A-S801 behaved differently vs the A-S501 with your Elac speakers that are not very efficient in terms of spl/W in your specific application.
Thanks PENG, the contrast is even more drastic than that, because of COVID my A-S501 is still stuck in Montreal in a family member house, so at this point the difference I heard was from the weaker R-S300 (50 watts) vs the A-S801 (100 watts). Those are Yamaha numbers so they could accurate or not.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks PENG, the contrast is even more drastic than that, because of COVID my A-S501 is still stuck in Montreal in a family member house, so at this point the difference I heard was from the weaker R-S300 (50 watts) vs the A-S801 (100 watts). Those are Yamaha numbers so they could accurate or not.
That's 50 W 8 ohms. Your speakers are probably more like 4 ohm nominal than the specified 6 ohm and its sensitivity is only 85 dB/2.83V/1m.

I seem to remember we talked about this before in your other thread(s), that unless you sit really close and listen to low to moderate level, amps like the RS300 are not going to be suitable. The A-S801 would be a much better match for sure.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
That's 50 W 8 ohms. Your speakers are probably more like 4 ohm nominal than the specified 6 ohm and its sensitivity is only 85 dB/2.83V/1m.

I seem to remember we talked about this before in your other thread(s), that unless you sit really close and listen to low to moderate level, amps like the RS300 are not going to be suitable. The A-S801 would be a much better match for sure.
Thank you PENG, the A-S1100 would be an overkill right? I heard that the higher you go in the Yamaha line the better they sound at lower levels, and that is my goal, no to have to turn the volume dial that high and still listen to quality sound for hours.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Spending that much money on an amp may seem logical based on much audiophilia out there, but for your use I can't see the additional expenditure will make a difference except in your wallet. The differences between this and other Yamaha amps aren't going to be audible at the levels you use them at IMO.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Spending that much money on an amp may seem logical based on much audiophilia out there, but for your use I can't see the additional expenditure will make a difference except in your wallet. The differences between this and other Yamaha amps aren't going to be audible at the levels you use them at IMO.
Thanks a lot, if its not worth it, there is no point.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thank you PENG, the A-S1100 would be an overkill right?
Not really, it depends how you define overkill, the A-S1100 is a totally different breed than the A-S801. The 801 is a glorified/dressed up receiver whereas the 1100 is a "real" integrated amp in my view.;)

I heard that the higher you go in the Yamaha line the better they sound at lower levels, and that is my goal, no to have to turn the volume dial that high and still listen to quality sound for hours.
As mentioned many times, people can say anything especially on the internet (fan boys etc..) or those who want to sell you something (dealers etc.). It is of course up to you to choose who to believe. I can only tell you my opinion based on my research on available facts that include specs and/or lab measurements, and most importantly, logic.

For example, if going up the Yamaha line they sound better at lower levels, then there will be an identifiable specs and that could be verified by lab measurements. If whoever said such a thing was based on their ear/brains, then how would you know yours would hear/discern the same? And how they did they define "low level"?

And then again, I hate to repeat things so many times, but since you ask, then ask yourself if such claims are true, why then everything a serious doubt blind tests are done, people's perceived differences, let alone better or worse would disappear, or their impressions became inconsistent to be conclusive?

The most reliable way of telling whether an amp, and I mean one that is well designed, and have specs/measurements that indicate it is considered transparent, would not sound as good at low output level in theory, would be to look at their distortions/noise vs power output curve.

Take a look of the distortions at 1 W, that's an important one because it is an indicator for how well the amp performs at the so called low level. If you can find one that show the level at say 200 mW that would be even better. At the 1 W level, we should be able to see some signs of significant crossover distortion that is supposedly more objectionable to harmonic distortions.

AHB2 Crossover Distortion Measurements - Benchmark Media Systems

Not a test of how well you read measurements, but take a look of the following and can you tell which one performed better at 1 W level. All of them do show THD at 1 W into 8 ohms.

The first one was obviously Gene's.

The second one was for the A-S700, what I would consider a real integrated amp but unfortunately Yamaha replaced it with the A-S701 that is basically the same as the S801 but without the USB DAC. The reviewer did not produce the same graph so I have to use the FFT instead.

1644683706165.png



yamaha-a-s700-australian_hifi_03_10.pdf (excelia-hifi.cz)

1644683647990.png


1644683785512.png


If you give me the right answer, I will post the results of one that you would see "going up the Yamaha line..";)
 

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Q

qba

Audioholic
Thanks for the very informative reply PENG,
Not really, it depends how you define overkill, the A-S1100 is a totally different breed than the A-S801. The 801 is a glorified/dressed up receiver whereas the 1100 is a "real" integrated amp in my view.;)
I need to listen to the A-S1100 to confirm that for myself but with the knowledge you have in this hobby I'm no doubting that your position has supporting data and experience with both amps.

If you give me the right answer, I will post the results of one that you would see "going up the Yamaha line..";)
I need to understand the question for me to try to answer it :)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I need to understand the question for me to try to answer it :)
Sorry, may be the post is too long and you skipped through the question:

"Not a test of how well you read measurements, but take a look of the following and can you tell which one performed better at 1 W level. All of them do show THD at 1 W into 8 ohms."

Of course I meant in terms of THD+N.
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
Sorry, may be the post is too long and you skipped through the question:

"Not a test of how well you read measurements, but take a look of the following and can you tell which one performed better at 1 W level. All of them do show THD at 1 W into 8 ohms."

Of course I meant in terms of THD+N.
My guess will be the A-S1100, but why do we need to guess, if this morning I purchased it for a home trial, I'll give you the real answer according to my ears, no the measurements at the end of the day ;)

PXL_20220213_165756838.jpeg
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
My guess will be the A-S1100, but why do we need to guess, if this morning I purchased it for a home trial, I'll give you the real answer according to my ears, no the measurements at the end of the day ;)

View attachment 53830
Not really, if you look carefully they are all about the same!

Yes, you go by the ears you will get your answer. But we all know what that kind of answer really mean.;)
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
I did a lot of tests between the A-S1100 and the A-S801 at low volume, middle volume, high volume, subwoofer, no subwoofer, all types of genres and the answer is that I couldn't tell the difference even for a sec, in high notes, midranges, low bass, it didn't matter, sometimes I had to turn off one of the amps because I thought the switch wasn't working.

I recorded some videos with different genres to show you guys and in some of them I turn off one of the amps, to show you guys that the switch was working. It is insane I can't understand it, I didn't know if it was going to be better or worst but I was hoping to notice some differences.

They sound like the same amplifier. This is so puzzling, anyway needless to say I returned the A-S1100 and I kept the A-S801.

Spending that much money on an amp may seem logical based on much audiophilia out there, but for your use I can't see the additional expenditure will make a difference except in your wallet. The differences between this and other Yamaha amps aren't going to be audible at the levels you use them at IMO.
Why? Why? Why? Don't l just isten to @lovinthehd and save my time and money, this feels like Deja vu :)

Not really, it depends how you define overkill, the A-S1100 is a totally different breed than the A-S801.
I defined overkill as a bigger more expensive better-built amp that won't make any difference to the sound for my setup.

The 801 is a glorified/dressed up receiver whereas the 1100 is a "real" integrated amp in my view.;)
Well, the glorified/dressed-up receiver sounded the same as the "real" integrated amp in every one of my tests.

@PENG I truly appreciate the time you have spent trying to help me out with many of my audio journeys.

I think I'm done looking for speakers or amps for my office, I just going to try to smell the roses and enjoy what I have :)

Yamaha A-S1100 vs A-S801 Diana Krall

Yamaha A-S1100 vs A-S801 Rüfüs Du Sol

Yamaha A-S1100 vs A-S801 Bon Jovi

Yamaha A-S1100 vs A-S801 Sam Cooke

Yamaha A-S1100 vs A-S801 Issac Delgado
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Such is audiophilia, especially when listening to the sellers of such....
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
So we're now on Post 56 after I said in Post 2:
Do not buy electronics to EQ your Speakers. This is a fools errand.
It's like a slow motion hockey fight.
:p

:cool:
 
Q

qba

Audioholic
So we're now on Post 56 after I said in Post 2:


It's like a slow motion hockey fight.
:p

:cool:
ryanosaur you are so right, your words were ones of the ones that had an impact on me and made me recognize that I was repeating the same nonsense I was hearing from the Youtubers :) Thanks!!!
 

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