Need advice on what receiver for my restaurant!

[Dutchwoman]

Hii all of you!

So I have no clue if I'm even allowed to ask advice in here, but I hope that someone is still willing to help me out.

I'm opening up a restaurant pretty soon and a thing that I find really important personally is music/audio quality! So I'm not tech savvy at all, but researched as much as I could to find the best options for me, and I decided to go for these speakers: klipsch aw-650 and the rock variant of these, (because my restaurant will be in an outdoor setting). First of all, do you Audioholics agree with this choice? And now for my main question, what is my best option for driving these? And how many would I need?

I must add, that I want to create a bar type of atmosphere (so sometimes a live DJ or band) The space is about 200m2/2150sqft big. So I was initially looking at 9 speakers and 2 subwoofer, so that I could connect them all to 1 receiver, I mainly think this way because I want a simple set-up (and stream spotify etc). So what I saw is an Denon-x3600h and x3700h on ebay which are fairly reasonably priced, yet they receive very high review!

Am I on the right train of thought here? Or am I waaaaay off/delusional, I spoke to a DJ once and he started talking about buying amplifiers and speakers from Beta3 for such a venue and not a receiver/Klipsch type of speakers, so I researched it online but it seemed kind of complicated.

Any help and advice is HIGHLY appreciated!

 

[WookieGR]

Most commercial/public environments go with 70v/100v distributed audio where you can daisy chain the speakers and control the volumes in different areas. It's a nightmare distributing sound through a building in stereo sets. In other words, your speakers are wrong and none of the AVR's you see on forums will work. Bogen make audio amps that support 70v power distribution.

See here: https://www.klipsch.com/pro/distributed-audio
Scroll to the SURFACE MOUNT SPEAKERS section.

Understanding Distributed Audio: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/pro-audio/tips-and-solutions/understanding-the-basics-of-distributed-audio-systems

 

[Dutchwoman]

Most commercial/public environments go with 70v/100v distributed audio where you can daisy chain the speakers and control the volumes in different areas. It's a nightmare distributing sound through a building in stereo sets. In other words, your speakers are wrong and none of the AVR's you see on forums will work. Bogen make audio amps that support 70v power distribution.

See here: https://www.klipsch.com/pro/distributed-audio
Scroll to the SURFACE MOUNT SPEAKERS section.

Understanding Distributed Audio: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/pro-audio/tips-and-solutions/understanding-the-basics-of-distributed-audio-systems

Thank you for your reply! I’ve read the bhp article, and it’s interesting indeed. But would this also be the best option in my case? As I purely want to use the system for music, and it’s also just 1 big space.

 

[WookieGR]

Your speakers are great but not the right kind to just hook up nine to an amp. You still need a proper audio distribution amp and ideally one with a mixer in case you do have a DJ or want to change or mix in other audio sources. Here is an example of an amp typically found in commercial use: https://www.bogen.com/product/power-amplifiers/m-class-modular-power-amplifiers-m300m450m600

70v speakers would just daisy chain into that. It's not possible to do that with traditional 8ohm speakers.

 

[WookieGR]

If you want to just "rig it" then a nice Monoprice 9 channel Monolith and whatever audio source you want should be enough. I'm in the safety and security industry and 70v distributed audio and paging is common place.

 

[Eppie]

It's hard to explain why 70 volt commercial equipment is preferred without getting technical but those systems are designed for long cable runs. Your far speakers could be 20m or more away and domestic equipment is not designed for such long cable runs. Domestic speakers would require heavy gauge stranded wire while 70v speakers can use less expensive lower gauge cable. You would need a separate wire to each domestic speaker, while 70v systems can have the wire daisy chain from one speaker to the next, so MUCH less total wire required. 70v systems also allow you to place speakers in zones and control the zones with separate volume controls (this requires separate wiring to each zone, but you can daisy chain within a zone). A 9 channel video receiver would play everything at the same volume. You also want to have a mono source otherwise someone sitting next to a left channel speaker will not hear what's being played in the right channel (I've experienced this in restaurants).

Good speakers should be in a similar price range but outdoor 70v subwoofers can get expensive. When matching amplifiers to speakers, the total power needed by the speakers should be about 80% of the amp power rating, so careful planning is required. It is recommended that you consult with a professional installer that deals in commercial audio. Avoid anything made by Pyle. People see these on Amazon as cheap alternatives but they are junk.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You're not playing a CONCERT at HIGH VOLUME, correct? Just some nice pleasant background music to set the TONE/ATMOSPHERE?

If that's the case, I see no problem with the Denon powering 9 little Klipsch outdoor speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hopefully if you use a receiver it can be set to mono, and you could somewhat adjust levels of individual speakers as well for some flexibility....it's not really the tool for the job but could work....

 

[Eppie]

Yes, a surround receiver could be set to 5 channel audio but how much level adjustment is there in an AVR? I suppose +/- 6dB should be enough. My concern is that she wants to power 9 speakers. Is there a setting on those Denon AVRs that sends the same level signal to all 9 channels with a mono source? Has anyone even tried that with an AVR designed for multi-channel surround tracks? If I switch my Denon to 5-channel Stereo it does increase the volume to the rear surrounds but I don't think there is a mode to do that in 9 channels. Any body want to experiment and report back here?

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, a surround receiver could be set to 5 channel audio but how much level adjustment is there in an AVR? I suppose +/- 6dB should be enough. My concern is that she wants to power 9 speakers. Is there a setting on those Denon AVRs that sends the same level signal to all 9 channels with a mono source? Has anyone even tried that with an AVR designed for multi-channel surround tracks? If I switch my Denon to 5-channel Stereo it does increase the volume to the rear surrounds but I don't think there is a mode to do that in 9 channels. Any body want to experiment and report back here?

My Denon 3808 and 4520 both have a mono movie mode that will use all speakers.....but not a particular option under the music options (but you can use it for anything really). Mine also have +/- 12 dB of adjustment for each speaker. It's still possibly not the tool for the job (and didn't look thru manuals for the models she mentioned either), but could possibly work?

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you for your reply! I’ve read the bhp article, and it’s interesting indeed. But would this also be the best option in my case? As I purely want to use the system for music, and it’s also just 1 big space.

Yes, a 70 volt system is the way to go. Outdoor spaces are tricky. The problem is that sound dies quickly away from the speakers, so you need more speakers so everyone is relatively close. Otherwise some will be blasted and others barely, or not hear it at all. Mono is also the best way to go in this situation.

70 volt systems are easy to install and easy to control the sound to each loudspeaker so you can cover the area uniformly.

Since you have no experience, you should seriously consider getting a professional installer. Using domestic equipment will be unreliable. You have a commercial establishment, and your sound system needs to be designed and specked as commercial grade from the ground up.

The speakers you have selected may be OK but may be not. Outdoor is a claim of Klipsch, but they are not officially certified as outdoor. That claim is unverified. Each speaker will require a transformer for a 70 volt system.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If nothing has been purchased yet, get the proper equipment which is designed for commercial applications, which means that you should be looking at a 70v system.

I think you got reasonably good information above on some considerations. It's worth adding that commercial 70v amplifiers from Crown, Crestron, Extron, and others are all over eBay at some phenomenal prices. As places go out of business, their old, but very good, used gear goes up for sale for well under $100 on amps which can drive the entire show.

For example, the Extron XPA 2001 amp has 200 watts of power, which is plenty for 9 speakers used for reasonably loud background music. Far louder than would be comfortable while dining I am sure. There are some here for less than 50 bucks shipped to your door...

Extron Amplifier Xpa 2001 for sale | eBay

Get the best deals for Extron Amplifier Xpa 2001 at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!

www.ebay.com

What must be said: YOU MAY NOT PLAY PANDORA! It is illegal, and if you are caught, you will be fined.

That's not exactly correct. As your business will be open to the public to enter and leave, you may only use commercially licensed audio playback.

Sonos has a page on it:

Pro: The Premier Sound Solution for Businesses | Sonos

Outfit your business with Sonos speakers, licensed ad-free music, and an entire suite of monitoring and management controls, all for a low monthly price. Set the right tone for your brand with best-in-class speakers that you can manage remotely with the Sonos Pro Dashboard. Learn more at Sonos.

www.sonos.com

As does Pandora:

Pandora for Business - Only $26.95 a month!

Mood Media Pandora for Business

pandora.moodmedia.com

The bottom line is that if you get caught playing unlicensed music in your space, it could cost you thousands of dollars in an instant. So, pay the monthly service fee for the music as required by law.