Center Stereo image

[PG55]

Hi,

I have recently added a Roksan 2 channel stereo amplifier with it's own DAC to my Marantz SR7015 5.1 channel system for mainly when I want to listen to music in stereo. When I switch to using the Roksan amp with the BluOS app as the source I lose the center of my stereo image as it seems to move to the left speaker. If I switch back to my Marantz using the HEOS app the center image is dead on center again. It may be that I calibrated the Marantz using the Audyssey app and when I use the Roksan amp on its own there is no way that I know of to calibrate the speakers to it. any suggestions?

Thanks,
PG55

 

[lovinthehd]

What are you left and right channel levels set to in the avr? How about using the integrated amp's level/balance setting? How do you switch between amps? Why did you add the other amp (instead of just using it as your amp for L/R channels all the time)?

 

[PG55]

I hadn't thought to play around with the Amps level balance. I will give it a try. I added the amp to replace the left and right front channels on the pre outs of the AVR so I am using it all the time. What is interesting is when I use the Marantz HEOS to stream the center image is dead on. When I turn off the AVR and just use the Roksan Amp I lose the center and it shifts more to the left speaker. Am I correct in assuming that when I use the Marantz the Audyssey corrected the level balance and it is why I am getting the center image dead on.

 

[lovinthehd]

I hadn't thought to play around with the Amps level balance. I will give it a try. I added the amp to replace the left and right front channels on the pre outs of the AVR so I am using it all the time. What is interesting is when I use the Marantz HEOS to stream the center image is dead on. When I turn off the AVR and just use the Roksan Amp I lose the center and it shifts more to the left speaker. Am I correct in assuming that when I use the Marantz the Audyssey corrected the level balance and it is why I am getting the center image dead on.

Misunderstood, thought it was other than using the pre-outs. If you ran Audyssey after adding the amp I don't know why you would get a mismatch in balance unless the Roksan is causing it....what exact amp is this?

 

[PG55]

I agree. I think it is the amp. It is the Roksan Attessa integrated streaming Amplifier. I am not sure how to calibrate it so that I get back the center stereo image like I do with the Marantz. Or I could just use the Marantz HEOS app for stereo streaming but then I wouldn't be able to use the better DAC in the Roksan.

 

[lovinthehd]

Does the dac actually make an audible difference or does it handle files you can't with the Marantz? I wonder if its the dac implementation causing the issue in the first place? I've seen several times imbalance in output from some gear when bench tested, so maybe you can simply address it with futzing with the balance....personally I wouldn't add anything but a power amp to an avr.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Is the Marantz set to stereo, or direct?

 

[PG55]

Great question! Marantz is set to Auto/stereo. I think if I set the Marantz to direct it disengages the Audyssey. If this is correct I should theoretically lose the center stereo imaging similar to when I use the Roksan Amp. I will try that tonight.

The other part of this is that I really can't tell the difference in the SQ between the so called better DAC in the Roksan and the one in the Marantz which plays dead center. I may be better off with just a power amp as was suggested.

 

[lovinthehd]

Direct would not use Audyssey EQ, no....but really shouldn't lose a phantom center just because of eq. It wouldn't surprise me there's no benefit from the dac in the Roksan....dac implementation in the avrs tends to be quite good.

 

[mono-bloc]

The Pre-out's on the Marantz are used for a power amp NOT an integrated. Giving complete control to the Marantz, You say the Roksan has an in'built DAC, therefor it's an integrated . And it's never going to work, the same way a power amp works..

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,

I have recently added a Roksan 2 channel stereo amplifier with it's own DAC to my Marantz SR7015 5.1 channel system for mainly when I want to listen to music in stereo. When I switch to using the Roksan amp with the BluOS app as the source I lose the center of my stereo image as it seems to move to the left speaker. If I switch back to my Marantz using the HEOS app the center image is dead on center again. It may be that I calibrated the Marantz using the Audyssey app and when I use the Roksan amp on its own there is no way that I know of to calibrate the speakers to it. any suggestions?

Thanks,
PG55

Well that was a complete waste of time and money. What sort of ugly 'bird's nest' do you have to hook that nightmare together? I'm particularly interested in your speaker hook up between the receiver and the integrated amp. My hunch is that the hookup is on par with the concept.

 

[Am_P]

I hadn't thought to play around with the Amps level balance. I will give it a try. I added the amp to replace the left and right front channels on the pre outs of the AVR so I am using it all the time. What is interesting is when I use the Marantz HEOS to stream the center image is dead on. When I turn off the AVR and just use the Roksan Amp I lose the center and it shifts more to the left speaker. Am I correct in assuming that when I use the Marantz the Audyssey corrected the level balance and it is why I am getting the center image dead on.

When the AVR is OFF, forget about the receiver completely. Quit saying Audyssey, HEOS, Audyssey, etc when the receiver is OFF...there is no more receiver anywhere in the discussion!!

Now, the setup is quite simply akin to using your integrated amp as a single box solution for stereo music. If it's shifting more to the left and yet the balance knob is in it's neutral position, there is something wrong with your Roksan. Do a factory reset and check if it's fixed. If problem persists, return the Roksan and get your money back.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well that was a complete waste of time and money. What sort of ugly 'bird's nest' do you have to hook that nightmare together? I'm particularly interested in your speaker hook up between the receiver and the integrated amp. My hunch is that the hookup is on par with the concept.

What I want to know is, if you have the Roksan and the Marantz receiver connected to the same set of speakers, or if you have some type of switch. I just have a feeling of a totally unacceptable equipment busting set up here.

 

[mono-bloc]

Well that was a complete waste of time and money.

My thinking was the same as your's except I was a little bit more diplomatic with my reply I'm still wondering how he interconnects his feeds, be they "BluOS or HEOS" to both receivers or does the loudest win.

 

[PG55]

Diplomacy does not seem to be a priority in this forum. Excuse me for asking for advice. I thought that was it was for. I didn't see an expert only sign anywhere. Anybody can trash another's system but it takes a bit more to provide solutions.

If anyone is inclined to assist-The Roksan is connected to the Marantz using the left and right pre outs from the Marantz. The front left and right mains are also connected to the Roksan. When I watch TV I use the Marantz and the Roksan goes into Home theater bypass and powers the left and right main speakers.

When I listen to music I turn on the Roksan only using the front left and right mains. This is where I have the center image issue. If I use the Marantz AVR in HEOS mode using the app on my phone for streaming I get the center image back dead on.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Don’t recall how this is wired. As my brain isn’t awake yet, I’m wonder if a set of cables is backwards, causing an out of phase issue giving a dipole effect.

 

[PG55]

If you are referring to the positive and negative speaker cables I checked and they are correct. It has been suggested I go with a power amp vs. this Roksan integrated streaming amp. I may go down that rabbit hole.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yep. That’s what I was talking about. Sometimes it’s the littlest thing!

 

[Am_P]

If you are referring to the positive and negative speaker cables I checked and they are correct. It has been suggested I go with a power amp vs. this Roksan integrated streaming amp. I may go down that rabbit hole.

When you are using an integrated amp for this application (running front preouts from a receiver to such an amp), you would want it to have "power amp direct input" or equivalent connection, as can be found in the Marantz PM8006, Yamaha AS-1200, etc. This poweramp direct connection lets you remove the integrated amp's preamp sections from the chain when pairing with a receiver or prepro. Hence, you can also use it as a standalone integ amp and it would also be ideal for multitasking the way you want it to a.k.a as a 2 channel integ amp and and as a poweramp in a multichannel 5.1 application.

Your Roksan could work (less optimal however) as long as you find a set sweet spot for its volume knob and re-run your receiver's calibration for your multichannel application. But, it currently looks like your amp may have a defect (imbalanced channel levels or something) that your receiver is correcting for, which is why i suggested that you troubleshoot the amp on its own first in a stereo application (completely remove the receiver from the picture, do a factory reset, etc). It is supposed to be a standalone stereo amp with streaming features, isn't it?

Good luck.

 

[PG55]

Thank you! Very helpful!

Is this the connection you are describing?

"Roksan AV Bypass connection- 4. Analogue Inputs- When using the Streaming/ Integrated Amplifier as part of a home cinema system with an AV receiver, the A2 input can be used to drive 2 channels with the AV receiver driving the rest. Here, the AV Bypass mode will need to be turned on and the appropriate RCA outputs from the AV Receiver will need to be connected to A2. When in use, A2 should be the selected input and will have the Mute icon next to it."

This allows me to use the integrated amp we you described- you can also use it as a standalone integ amp and it would also be ideal for multitasking the way you want it to a.k.a as a 2 channel integ amp and and as a poweramp in a multichannel 5.1 application.

I will do a factory reset and see if it corrects the imaging issue. My hunch after playing around with it is that my speaker placement isn't ideal so once I remove the AVR's calibration correction when using the Integrated amp on it's own I lose the center imaging. I may need to 1st correct the speaker placement to get the proper stereo imaging without calibration if possible. I do have some WAF issues around moving the speakers.

Thanks,
PG55