AV Receiver vs Stereo Amplifier

[PENG]

Thank you PENG

1- If my SVS subwoofer already comes with the app, should I still care for the amp built-in bass management?
2 - Do you think that the room correction features and bass management, are more important than a little bit more power and the better built-in DAC of the A-S801?

1) You should definitely use the App, and play with the R-N803 and see if you can improve things further.
2) I assumed the AS801 was slightly more powerful but according to the specs that may not be true at all.

I also checked the service manuals and found their amp sections are also the same. The AS801 has a slightly better DAC IC, based on specs but I prefer the implementation of the 803's better because it was differentially connected, taking advantage of the 8 channel ES9006 vs the AS801's 2 channel ES9010K2M.

Keep in mind you probably know by now that most of time I based my comments of specs and measurements only, and sometimes on the facts obtained from the service manuals if available. I have not auditioned either product but I see no reason why one would "sound better" than the other.

On advantage the AS801 has is that it has the USB DAC feature, but it is quite limited such that you can do better by purchasing a $150 external DAC, use it with the RN803's analog input and you will be able to play any format/resolution vs the AS801's that is limited to DSD128. As you know, many AH members don't believe the different DACs matter at all anyway.

I am really impressed by the RN803, too bad I don't need one.

 

[3db]

Your A-S501 will have higher quality preamp/poweramp sections and have higher sound quality than an equivalently priced receiver for 2 channel listening. I have had several entry level bottom of the barrel receivers in the past (Pioneer, Sony, Denon, etc) and they all sounded terrible for any dedicated music listening with a scrutinizing ear. AV Receivers start sounding real good and will have incredible features IME when it gets to the flagship level. Such sonic quality can be achieved with dedicated 2 channel gear at lower prices however. Bottom of the barrel receivers will have more features than dedicated 2 channel gear, but, will be heavily compromised on sound quality.

Keep in mind that this is a AV forum and for instance, the video/movie guys may not care as much for sound quality w.r.t dedicated 2 channel or multichannel music listening. They may be beating it to death with their Klipsches and be more focused on reference level SPLs and dynamics, but may not care to discern other intricacies with music listening. There are guys who'll insist every dac/preamp/poweramp etc out there sounds the same. They may have zero room treatment and insist that some room correction software will fix everything even if they are set up in the crappiest possible room. There are guys out there who won't hear a difference between your Elac speakers and some 100 dollar boombox. So, it's up to you and what your priorities are.

Here's a stereo amp that's very close to the A-S801 with some additional features: bass management, streaming and basic room correction...if you're looking for something that may be middle of the road w.r.t sound quality and features, i.e. doesn't compromise too much on either.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN803/Yamaha-R-N803.html?awcp=&awcr=309942927033&awdv=c&awkw=yamaha+r+n803&awmt=p&awnw=g&awug=9023847&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_c-OBhDFARIsAIFg3ezAlQaeBjmmkPpQGphrggWCVZmeMvMMyWkQgole2z2hLgGS0zY6qyQaAh3uEALw_wcB

A common phalacy that 2 channel guys appear to have in abundance is that movie guys dont care for sound quality. BULLSH?T!!! Nothing ruins a good movie faster than a poorly mastered soundtrack. Its time for the 2 channel subjectivists to wake up and smell the coffee. Movie soundtracks, especially for blockbuster action films are FAR MORE DIFFICULT to reproduce and put a far greater demand on the amp sections of AVRs then anything found on vinyl or CD. Please spare us the two channel rhetoric. It gets long in the tooth after a while.

 

[3db]

I've owned a sub with a remote for "tweaking" in the past. I found I spent too much time fiddling around with it and ultimately stopped using it. I have an SB4000 now and never use the app I DO use the preset volume settings though, just to switch between two levels for music and movies.

I do the same but use the memory settings of the AVR.

 

[Am_P]

A common phalacy that 2 channel guys appear to have in abundance is that movie guys dont care for sound quality. BULLSH?T!!! Its time for the 2 channel subjectivists to wake up and smell the coffee. Movie soundtracks, especially for blockbuster action films are FAR MORE DIFFICULT to reproduce and put a far greater demand on the amp sections of AVRs then anything found on vinyl or CD. Please spare us the two channel rhetoric. It gets long in the tooth after a while.

Right..right...you're sitting there really listening to/immersed in the soundtrack/music on your movies and not real busy trying to listen to the dialogue and the explosions instead. Calm down, O' grand queen.

 

[3db]

Nothing ruins a movie faster than a poorly mastered soundtrack.

 

[Trell]

A common phalacy that 2 channel guys appear to have in abundance is that movie guys dont care for sound quality. BULLSH?T!!! Nothing ruins a good movie faster than a poorly mastered soundtrack. Its time for the 2 channel subjectivists to wake up and smell the coffee. Movie soundtracks, especially for blockbuster action films are FAR MORE DIFFICULT to reproduce and put a far greater demand on the amp sections of AVRs then anything found on vinyl or CD. Please spare us the two channel rhetoric. It gets long in the tooth after a while.

Am_Pee is trolling.

 

[Am_P]

Am_Pee is trolling.

Here we go again, the other likeminded drone who can't accept the truth...You must be the other guy who's really soaked in to the music/soundtrack in your movies and not real busy listening to the dialogue and the explosions instead. Trell eh? Just replace the 'e' with 'o'. You were close.

 

[3db]

Am_Pee is trolling.

Most, not all 2 channel guys rarely put in the work that movie guys do in setting up systems. Instead, 2 channel guys supposedly upgrade their electronics and use subjective bias filled listening tests to validate their more expensive purchases. Whats worse is they absolutely believe that cables impart a sonic sjgnature. Im not saying or suggesting that Am_P is doing that. I do however see this behaviour in multiple forums which I'm a member of. Mention controlled blind listening tests to a 2 channel crowd and watch the stoning begin.

 

[Trell]

Here we go again, the other likeminded drone who can't accept the truth...You must be the other guy who's really soaked in to the music/soundtrack in your movies and not real busy listening to the dialogue and the explosions instead. Trell eh? Just replace the 'e' with 'o'. You were close.

Obviously you haven't looked at my signature, so I'll help you with a link to my current living room setup in that thread as reading comprehension is not your strongest side.

Trell's home theatre/living room

Do you notice any difference in dynamics- i.e., one woofer vs two? Not yet, though the listening volume played so far is moderate, about -30 dB to -25 dB on the receiver. And, of course, it depends on the content :)

forums.audioholics.com

I choose my moniker as a joke and every time I see comments like yours I know they missed it, and is a indication of a feeble mind unable to at least use Google to compensate for a deficient education.

Trolling is more effective when you don't appear to be a simpleton.

But this is not the Steam Vent, so perhaps you should make a new thread there to explore this fascinating theory of yours?

 

[Am_P]

Obviously you haven't looked at my signature, so I'll help you with a link to my current living room setup in that thread as reading comprehension is not your strongest side.

Trell's home theatre/living room

Do you notice any difference in dynamics- i.e., one woofer vs two? Not yet, though the listening volume played so far is moderate, about -30 dB to -25 dB on the receiver. And, of course, it depends on the content :)

forums.audioholics.com

I choose my moniker as a joke and every time I see comments like yours I know they missed it, and is a indication of a feeble mind unable to at least use Google to compensate for a deficient education.

Trolling is more effective when you don't appear to be a simpleton.

But this is not the Steam Vent, so perhaps you should make a new thread there to explore this fascinating theory of yours?

Cute... the hostile lil TrellyTrolly is now trying to portray itself as some kind of intellectual creature (towering above the regular peasantry)...

 

[lovinthehd]

Ampy should be ignored, barely understands how audio works.

 

[qba]

 

[3db]

The take away from that video is that with home theater speakers, one can have a somewhat poor on axes frequency response as long as the directivity index is linear enough to be correctable through an AVR's PEQ facility. In other words, the speaker's off axes response should follow the on axes response in a nice decay. However, to me speakers of that ilk are not good speakers and should be avoided. One doesnt need to buy expensive speakers to get speakers with a good on axes response and good directivity index.

 

[qba]

Thanks a lot for the reply PENG and thanks a lot for the manual!

1) You should definitely use the App, and play with the R-N803 and see if you can improve things further.

Good to know.

2) I assumed the AS801 was slightly more powerful but according to the specs that may not be true at all.

k

I also checked the service manuals and found their amp sections are also the same. The AS801 has a slightly better DAC IC, based on specs but I prefer the implementation of the 803's better because it was differentially connected, taking advantage of the 8 channel ES9006 vs the AS801's 2 channel ES9010K2M.

Thanks for looking into the DAC there was no way I could know what any of that meant.

Keep in mind you probably know by now that most of time I based my comments of specs and measurements only, and sometimes on the facts obtained from the service manuals if available. I have not auditioned either product but I see no reason why one would "sound better" than the other.

I know we can only go with the specs sometimes.

On advantage the AS801 has is that it has the USB DAC feature, but it is quite limited such that you can do better by purchasing a $150 external DAC, use it with the RN803's analog input and you will be able to play any format/resolution vs the AS801's that is limited to DSD128. As you know, many AH members don't believe the different DACs matter at all anyway.

True at the end of the day an external $150 DAC will cancel whatever AS801 benefits are with the USB feature, but I won't be using USB so it doesn't matter to me

Clearly, the RN803 is a better option but thanks to @lovinthehd link I found another option the Denon DRA-800H

What do you think between the Yamaha R-N803 vs the Denon DRA-800H?

 

[PENG]

True at the end of the day an external $150 DAC will cancel whatever AS801 benefits are with the USB feature, but I won't be using USB so it doesn't matter to me

What do you think between the Yamaha R-N803 vs the Denon DRA-800H?

If you don't use the USB DAC then the USB DAC of the A-S801 is also no use to you and you will be better off with the R-N803's DAC.

Overall the R-N803 has much better specs and measurements than the Denon. They may not sound all that different audibly speaking, so between the two I would just choose the one better suit you need and preference, and price too.

 

[lovinthehd]

Actually I thought I just pointed out the review of the Denon and asked what was lacking? In any case I'd choose the unit that offers the better feature set for your use. With a tv possibly the Denon has a slight advantage with hdmi connections (but with tv and sub I'd prefer something with both hdmi and bass management myself) otherwise I lean towards the Yamaha.

 

[qba]

Actually I thought I just pointed out the review of the Denon and asked what was lacking? In any case I'd choose the unit that offers the better feature set for your use. With a tv possibly the Denon has a slight advantage with hdmi connections (but with tv and sub I'd prefer something with both hdmi and bass management myself) otherwise I lean towards the Yamaha.

Thank you lovinthehd, I'm with you, an HDMI will give me the easiness of just connecting my google tv device.

 

[qba]

If you don't use the USB DAC then the USB DAC of the A-S801 is also no use to you and you will be better off with the R-N803's DAC.

Overall the R-N803 has much better specs and measurements than the Denon. They may not sound all that different audibly speaking, so between the two I would just choose the one better suit you need and preference, and price too.

Thanks PENG!

 

[qba]

Other than the hum, is it working okay? Don't forget to re-run Audyssey, or level matched the LCR and the other channels with a good spl meter, or at the minimum increase the level trim of the LCR channels by 3 dB. 3 dB should get you to within 0.5 dB or the other channel so if you are busy, that's the best way to do it.

?

 

[lovinthehd]

Your external amp and the internal amps of the avr won't necessarily have the same gain structure, you need to check level matching when adding an external amp.

ps Not sure this is applicable in this thread....but I think another thread Peng and I were in does.....now I'm confused