Coronavirus

[Mr._Clark]

Your governor says you're just overreacting.

The ever popular straw man approach.

I'm not a fan of Death Santa, but in fairness I'd have to concede that controlling omicron appears to be mission impossible.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

The ever popular straw man approach.

I'm not a fan of Death Santa, but in fairness I'd have to concede that controlling omicron appears to be mission impossible.

We wouldn't have gotten to this point if so many fucking idiots had at least made an attempt to mitigate this disease in the first place. I said back in 2020 that if we didn't get this under control, sooner or later mutations would come that would cause massive losses of life. Delta ruled the roost in 2021, and not Omicron is here. Who even knows what's coming next.

Florida's hospitalizations tripled over the past couple weeks (during which the governor mysteriously disappeared, hmmm) but he's trying to claim it wasn't because of Covid. The man has done fuckall but lie and deflect from the get-go.

 

[Mikado463]

well if Florida is so bad, move !

Personally from what I can figure out Omicron has minor consequences on the majority of those properly vaccinated (which is everyone I love and care about). ANYBODY that thought this COVID nightmare wasn't going to turn into a political poop show must have been living under a rock !

 

[John Parks]

"during which the governor mysteriously disappeared, hmmm"

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis taking care of sick wife — not ‘missing’

Fla. Gov. Ron DeSantis was with his wife as she underwent cancer treatment during a recent COVID-19 surge in his state, his spokesman said.

nypost.com

 

[Swerd]

I've started to see reports that COVID can cause autoimmune disorders. I didn't realize that a viral infection can apparently trigger this. It's not clear to me how serious of a problem this is?

Basically, I'm paging @TLS Guy or @Swerd for their input (if they care to comment). It just seems odd and unexpected to me.

>>>Infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 can trigger an immune response that lasts well beyond the initial infection and recovery—even among people who had mild symptoms or no symptoms at all, according to Cedars-Sinai investigators. The findings are published in the Journal of Translational Medicine.

When people are infected with a virus or other pathogen, their bodies unleash proteins called antibodies that detect foreign substances and keep them from invading cells. In some cases, however, people produce autoantibodies that can attack the body’s own organs and tissues over time.<<<

COVID-19 Can Trigger Self-Attacking Antibodies

Infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 can trigger an immune response that lasts well beyond the initial infection and recovery—even among people who had mild symptoms or no symptoms at all, according to Cedars-Sinai investigators. The findings are published in the Journal of...

www.cedars-sinai.org

The idea that virus infections can trigger auto-immune responses has been around for a long time. I first heard about it in the 1980s as a young post-doc, when I was interested in why we don't have immune responses against various cancers. It was theorized that type 1 diabetes could come from the immune response remaining after a viral infection – a hit & run virus that triggered a hit & remain immune response. It was an interesting idea, but I don't know if more is now known about it. Inflammation and the adaptive immune system (B & T cells) have both been thought of as both potent weapons against infection, and as double-edged swords that can cause harm.

Various auto-immune diseases such as, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's disease, lupus, ankylosing spondylitis, Behcet's disease, and others, have unknown causes. One of the suspected causes is a miss-directed immune response. I don't believe the answer is that simple, as there is also a genetic component. Certain auto-immune diseases are known to occur at higher frequencies in individuals with certain gene isoforms. For example, there is a rare auto-immune condition causing severe inflammation in eyes (Bird shot retinopathy). 99% of these patients have an allele of the gene for type 1 human leukocyte antigen (HLA), called HLA-A29. Without going into detail, HLA is known to play a role in presenting partially digested pieces of foreign protein molecules to T cells of the immune system.

The cause of bird shot retinopathy is unknown, but it can be treated with strong immune-suppressing drugs. These drugs don't cure the condition, but they block the auto-immune reaction and prevent loss of eyesight. Additional genetic, environmental, or unknown factors are suspected to work with the HLA-A29 gene, resulting in this disease.

 

[Danzilla31]

We wouldn't have gotten to this point if so many fucking idiots had at least made an attempt to mitigate this disease in the first place. I said back in 2020 that if we didn't get this under control, sooner or later mutations would come that would cause massive losses of life. Delta ruled the roost in 2021, and not Omicron is here. Who even knows what's coming next.

Florida's hospitalizations tripled over the past couple weeks (during which the governor mysteriously disappeared, hmmm) but he's trying to claim it wasn't because of Covid. The man has done fuckall but lie and deflect from the get-go.

Mutations were going to happen no matter what we did. It's all over the world. And it runs rampant in poor countries. Every variant has come from some poor undervaxxed country so far. How do you defend against that? It was always going to find a way around our current vaccines. Like the flu. @Swerd just posted another link further validating that the deer population appear to carry it. It originally supposedly jumped from a bat. If it can cross jump species like that how are you ever going to stop it? Obviously the first round of vaccines buys us more time but it's pretty clear that more effective ones and further advances in treatments has to be done. Supposedly a new one is being worked on that's multivariant resistant I think @Mr._Clark posted a link to that one. Hopefully it does well in testing
I'm not advocating to not take preventative measures just saying demonizing everyone as if they ever had a chance to truly stop this virus once it broke loose just isn't going to help in the long run. Honestly I'm amazed they got a vaccine out at all that at least minimizes symptoms this is a coronavirus it's the first successful vaxx in any measure ever against this type of virus. Pretty damn impressive

 

[Swerd]

ANYBODY that thought this COVID nightmare wasn't going to turn into a political poop show must have been living under a rock!

The governors of Florida and Texas have taken this political poop show to another level by preventing common sense efforts at fighting a major public health risk.

So, to one-up your anal analogy – It takes a real turd of a politician to make flushing toilets illegal during the poop show.

 

[Bucknekked]

The idea that virus infections can trigger auto-immune responses has been around for a long time. I first heard about it in the 1980s as a young post-doc, when I was interested in why we don't have immune responses against various cancers. It was theorized that type 1 diabetes could come from the immune response remaining after a viral infection – a hit & run virus that triggered a hit & remain immune response. It was an interesting idea, but I don't know if more is now known about it. Inflammation and the adaptive immune system (B & T cells) have both been thought of as both potent weapons against infection, and as double-edged swords that can cause harm.

Various auto-immune diseases such as, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's disease, lupus, ankylosing spondylitis, Behcet's disease, and others, have unknown causes. One of the suspected causes is a miss-directed immune response. I don't believe the answer is that simple, as there is also a genetic component. Certain auto-immune diseases are known to occur at higher frequencies in individuals with certain gene isoforms. For example, there is a rare auto-immune condition causing severe inflammation in eyes (Bird shot retinopathy). 99% of these patients have a subtype (also known as a haplotype) of the gene for type 1 human leukocyte antigen (HLA) called HLA-A29. Without going into detail, HLA is known to play a role in presenting partially digested pieces of foreign protein molecules to T cells of the immune system.

The cause of bird shot retinopathy is unknown, but it can be treated with strong immune-suppressing drugs. These drugs don't cure the condition, but they block the auto-immune reaction and prevent loss of eyesight. Additional genetic, environmental, or unknown factors are suspected to work with the HLA-A29 gene, resulting in this disease.

@Swerd
I don't know about you but most places that I can read peoples comments on the plague turn in to a mindless display of ignorance in a hurry. I used to think most of our public problems with people acting like fools and expressing completely whacked opinions was simple ignorance: they simply weren't educated on the topic. With the advent of the internet and worldwide availability of information I am proven wrong. Simple ignorance can't explain the miserable collection of opinions you see in most public discourse, with the virus topics being particularly off base.

I am no public policy expert or infectious disease expert either. I am 67 years old and have survived the attacks of polio, measles and other ravaging diseases that have been largely eradicated with vaccines. People who cry all sorts of nonsense against the vaccines have no idea what the actual ravages of some of these terrible diseases are. I don't care if an individual or his family choose not to be vaccinated. If they choose not to, that's a choice they get to live with. What someone doesn't get to choose is the consequence.

I liked your posts. There was reason and thought in them. All too uncommon on this topic. I'm sure you'll be attacked senselessly for being "a sheeple". Shrug it off. Keep smiling. Keep listening to that wonderful music.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Covid cases up over 900% in Florida now. The beat goes on.

And the exalted governor?

 

[cpp]

our governor says you're just overreacting.

No he is just wanting to open additional monoclonal antibody treatment sites, just to keep pace. Its ok to get covid cause the GOV Ron has the treatment for ya.

 

[davidscott]

The new standard is less testing except for older or compromised people. That has some merit but anyone else can be free to spread the virus.

 

[TLS Guy]

The idea that virus infections can trigger auto-immune responses has been around for a long time. I first heard about it in the 1980s as a young post-doc, when I was interested in why we don't have immune responses against various cancers. It was theorized that type 1 diabetes could come from the immune response remaining after a viral infection – a hit & run virus that triggered a hit & remain immune response. It was an interesting idea, but I don't know if more is now known about it. Inflammation and the adaptive immune system (B & T cells) have both been thought of as both potent weapons against infection, and as double-edged swords that can cause harm.

Various auto-immune diseases such as, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's disease, lupus, ankylosing spondylitis, Behcet's disease, and others, have unknown causes. One of the suspected causes is a miss-directed immune response. I don't believe the answer is that simple, as there is also a genetic component. Certain auto-immune diseases are known to occur at higher frequencies in individuals with certain gene isoforms. For example, there is a rare auto-immune condition causing severe inflammation in eyes (Bird shot retinopathy). 99% of these patients have a subtype (also known as a haplotype) of the gene for type 1 human leukocyte antigen (HLA) called HLA-A29. Without going into detail, HLA is known to play a role in presenting partially digested pieces of foreign protein molecules to T cells of the immune system.

The cause of bird shot retinopathy is unknown, but it can be treated with strong immune-suppressing drugs. These drugs don't cure the condition, but they block the auto-immune reaction and prevent loss of eyesight. Additional genetic, environmental, or unknown factors are suspected to work with the HLA-A29 gene, resulting in this disease.

The association between acute infectious disease and later manifestation of other diseases has been known for a long time.

A British Physician, Thomas Sydenham (1624-1689) made the association between acute tonsillitis/pharyngitis and the development two to three weeks later of rheumatic fever and also a neurological disease of involuntary movements. This later disease bears his name, Sydenham's chorea, often known as St. Vitus's Dance. Both these diseases have been shown to be the cause of the development of serious valvular heart disease.

With the development of bacteriology in Germany and France, especially Koch in Germany, the cause of the above was found to be an abnormal immune response to Strep group A infections in the early twentieth century.

Many other examples have followed. An abnormal response to Coxsackie A infection to cause type I diabetes among individuals who have either of two Scandinavian alleles or one Japanese alleal.

Reye's syndrome, a serious neurological illness in children triggered by influenza, especially type B and the combination of aspirin.

Now the list of infectious agents linked to autoimmune disease is growing rapidly, including, but not limited to anticardiolipin syndrome, SLE and RA.

 

[Mr._Clark]

We wouldn't have gotten to this point if so many fucking idiots had at least made an attempt to mitigate this disease in the first place. I said back in 2020 that if we didn't get this under control, sooner or later mutations would come that would cause massive losses of life. Delta ruled the roost in 2021, and not Omicron is here. Who even knows what's coming next.

Florida's hospitalizations tripled over the past couple weeks (during which the governor mysteriously disappeared, hmmm) but he's trying to claim it wasn't because of Covid. The man has done fuckall but lie and deflect from the get-go.

Just to clarify, my reference to the straw man was directed at Death Santa, not you.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said.

 

[panteragstk]

@Swerd
I don't know about you but most places that I can read peoples comments on the plague turn in to a mindless display of ignorance in a hurry. I used to think most of our public problems with people acting like fools and expressing completely whacked opinions was simple ignorance: they simply weren't educated on the topic. With the advent of the internet and worldwide availability of information I am proven wrong. Simple ignorance can't explain the miserable collection of opinions you see in most public discourse, with the virus topics being particularly off base.

I am no public policy expert or infectious disease expert either. I am 67 years old and have survived the attacks of polio, measles and other ravaging diseases that have been largely eradicated with vaccines. People who cry all sorts of nonsense against the vaccines have no idea what the actual ravages of some of these terrible diseases are. I don't care if an individual or his family choose not to be vaccinated. If they choose not to, that's a choice they get to live with. What someone doesn't get to choose is the consequence.

I liked your posts. There was reason and thought in them. All too uncommon on this topic. I'm sure you'll be attacked senselessly for being "a sheeple". Shrug it off. Keep smiling. Keep listening to that wonderful music.

There is a very large problem with information. The ability to discern bullsh!t from fact. Critically thinking about information has gone by the wayside and it shows. Too many people pick their favorite source, and just believe without a second thought. No fact checking, no "gee that sure sounds like BS" just blind faith that what they're being told is true.

The internet is both the greatest, and worst thing to happen to mankind because of the way it's misused to spread false information. It's gotten to a point to where it's very difficult for folks to even tell what is and isn't fact even if they are critically thinking. There is just so much information available now that a lot of folks just don't have the time to pick through to validate what they're reading. They just want the truth.

I know I do.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Every variant has come from some poor undervaxxed country so far.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you seem to be implying that "every variant" arose due (at least in part) to vaccines not being distributed quickly enough to poor countries.

I do not see how this could be factually correct. Omicron is the only variant of concern (VOC) that was identified after vaccines were first introduced anywhere (other than trials). Restated, every country on the planet was "undervaxxed" in 2020 when Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta were first identified:

Omicron is the only VOC that was not detected in 2020.

Here are the dates for the two VOI's:

Tracking SARS-CoV-2 variants

All viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, change over time. Most changes have little to no impact on the virus’ properties. However, some changes may affect the virus’s properties, such as how easily it spreads, the associated disease severity, or the performance of...

www.who.int

Mu is the latest (January 2021), but this is still well before vaccines were widely available anywhere.

The very first vaccinations in the US and the UK were in December of 2020:

The very first Pfizer jab in the UK was on 12/8/20:

Covid-19 vaccine: First person receives Pfizer jab in UK

Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, becomes the first person in the world to get the jab as part of a mass vaccination programme, calling it the "best early birthday present".

www.bbc.com

The first AZ jab in the UK was on 1/4/21:

Covid: Brian Pinker, 82, first to get Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine

The PM says the number of vaccine doses will amount to "tens of millions" by the end of March.

www.bbc.com

The first Moderna jab in the UK was April of 2021:

Covid: Moderna vaccine UK rollout begins in Wales

The vaccine is the third to be used in the UK, with England's rollout due "in the next few days".

www.bbc.com

The first Pfizer shot in the U.S. was 12/14/20:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/nyregion/us-covid-vaccine-first-sandra-lindsay.html

I'm not sure when the first Moderna shot was administered in the U.S., but the Moderna vaccine was approved by the FDA a week after the Pfizer vaccine:

Moderna COVID vaccine becomes second to get US authorization

Two RNA vaccines will be useful as US infections surge, but the speedy authorizations complicate clinical trials.

www.nature.com

The first J&J shots in the U.S. were given in March of 2021:

First doses of authorized Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine administered in Ohio | CNN

The long-awaited, one-dose Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine has now been administered in the United States for the first time outside of a clinical trial.

www.cnn.com

The AZ trial in South Africa was halted because it was (apparently) not effective against beta, which was already circulating there in early 2021:

>>>Another COVID-19 vaccine has run into trouble in South Africa, showing less protection there than elsewhere because a SARS-CoV-2 variant that can apparently dodge key antibodies has become widespread. In the wake of the new finding, the country halted plans to next week to launch the country's first immunization campaign with the vaccine and may instead switch to a different one. . . . COVID-19 vaccines made by Johnson & Johnson (J&J) and Novavax have also been shown to offer weaker protection against B.1.351 [beta] (also known as 501.V2), the SARS-CoV-2 variant that now causes the vast majority of all infections in South Africa, than against older variants.<<<

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

According to wiki, India started vaccinating people on January 16, 2021 and 85% of the eligible population has received at least one shot, and 60% of the eligible population is fully vaccinated (this compares to 74% and 62% in the U.S.).

COVID-19 vaccination in India - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I mention India as an example of a country that has actually done quite well with it's vaccination program.

It is true (according to the ourworldindata website) that "Only 8.5% of people in low-income countries have received at least one dose"

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations

Our vaccination dataset uses the most recent official numbers from governments and health ministries worldwide. Population estimates for per-capita metrics are based on the United Nations World Population Prospects. Income groups are based on the World Bank classification. A full list of our...

ourworldindata.org

Having said that, I've seen no evidence that the VOC's to date came from these countries and that it would have been possible to prevent the VOCs if there had been even more heroic efforts to distribute vaccines around the world at the instant the vaccines started to become available.

It's hard to see how it could have been possible to vaccinate the entire planet prior to the end of 2020 (i.e. before Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta were first identified). It's possible these variants had been circulating for some time before they were identified. This makes it even more implausible to think it would have been possible to avoid these variants by distributing vaccines around the world.

Going forward, who knows?

 

[Bucknekked]

There is a very large problem with information. The ability to discern bullsh!t from fact. Critically thinking about information has gone by the wayside and it shows. Too many people pick their favorite source, and just believe without a second thought. No fact checking, no "gee that sure sounds like BS" just blind faith that what they're being told is true.

The internet is both the greatest, and worst thing to happen to mankind because of the way it's misused to spread false information. It's gotten to a point to where it's very difficult for folks to even tell what is and isn't fact even if they are critically thinking. There is just so much information available now that a lot of folks just don't have the time to pick through to validate what they're reading. They just want the truth.

I know I do.

We swim in a sea of information. Even the best and brightest are on the verge of drowning in it. It's hard to say it's a bad thing. For most of history, the lack of information was a bane. Then it became the province of the educated and therefore the powerful. Information has always been a source of power and the lack of it part of the problem of poverty. Today, the whole thing is flipped on its head with literally more information than we can possibly digest available with a couple of keystrokes.

Quality was carefully curated in days gone by because there was a price to be paid for errors. Today, there is no price at all for error and we see that errors now often outnumber facts because of no accountability. Anyone, literally anyone on earth, can start publishing on any topic they wish. To show us how weak minded many folks truly are, those people just making crap up out of the clear blue sky find audiences every single day.

You mention critical thinking a couple of times. I think that's becoming more and more a necessary skill for survival. It always has been important but now even more so. I had a college professor when I first started college that made a great impression. He knew because it was a PSYC 101 class that most of his students were dipshits right out of high school and therefore not thinking much at all. He set up several examples for us by telling us the weather forecast for the next few days. Everyone just nodded their heads. He made the point that none of what he just said was true. None of what he just said could be true given how meteorology works. He made a point of telling us we better start thinking for ourselves and evaluating for ourselves every word we get taught or we would soon be nothing more than fools with a degree. He started his class by insisting we think critically, or we would sink like a stone at a big university and therefore life itself. That has stuck with me for a lifetime.

 

[Mr._Clark]

We swim in a sea of information. Even the best and brightest are on the verge of drowning in it. It's hard to say it's a bad thing. For most of history, the lack of information was a bane. Then it became the province of the educated and therefore the powerful. Information has always been a source of power and the lack of it part of the problem of poverty. Today, the whole thing is flipped on its head with literally more information than we can possibly digest available with a couple of keystrokes.

Quality was carefully curated in days gone by because there was a price to be paid for errors. Today, there is no price at all for error and we see that errors now often outnumber facts because of no accountability. Anyone, literally anyone on earth, can start publishing on any topic they wish. To show us how weak minded many folks truly are, those people just making crap up out of the clear blue sky find audiences every single day.

Another problem is that spewing fountains of sh*t can be an effective strategy (the Steve Bannon "Flood the zone with sh*t" approach). Quite a few people seem to enjoy wallowing in this sh*t.

“Flood the zone with shit”: How misinformation overwhelmed our democracy

The impeachment trial didn’t change any minds. Here’s why.

www.vox.com

 

[Bucknekked]

Another problem is that spewing fountains of sh*t can be an effective strategy (the Steve Bannon "Flood the zone with sh*t" approach). Quite a few people seem to enjoy wallowing in this sh*t.

“Flood the zone with shit”: How misinformation overwhelmed our democracy

The impeachment trial didn’t change any minds. Here’s why.

www.vox.com

@Mr._Clark
I am trying really, really hard to stay off politics. In the area of disinformation politics seems to lead the way and because there seems to be no penalty for just making things up, they continue to do so. The plague would seem to be a great place to stay on the truth of things since people's lives can hang in the balance. We've seen the sea of sludge that's being slung around. Can you imagine what our next election cycle will be like? No more politics for me thank you. I'm going to listen to some music and cleanse my brain.

 

[panteragstk]

@Mr._Clark
I am trying really, really hard to stay off politics. In the area of disinformation politics seems to lead the way and because there seems to be no penalty for just making things up, they continue to do so. The plague would seem to be a great place to stay on the truth of things since people's lives can hang in the balance. We've seen the sea of sludge that's being slung around. Can you imagine what our next election cycle will be like? No more politics for me thank you. I'm going to listen to some music and cleanse my brain.

Good advice. It just sucks that sooooooo many people around me just won't stop with it all. Every conversation leads to something political. I can't take it anymore. Music sounds much better.

That's why all my systems are getting recalibrated. Haven't done it since I made some changes so I'm having fun tweaking and messing with stuff again. Feels good.

 

[shadyJ]

@Mr._Clark
I am trying really, really hard to stay off politics. In the area of disinformation politics seems to lead the way and because there seems to be no penalty for just making things up, they continue to do so. The plague would seem to be a great place to stay on the truth of things since people's lives can hang in the balance. We've seen the sea of sludge that's being slung around. Can you imagine what our next election cycle will be like? No more politics for me thank you. I'm going to listen to some music and cleanse my brain.

The problem is all of the disinformation along with the present nightmare of over-filled hospitals is only coming from one end of the political spectrum. This pandemic has been made far worse than it had to be thanks to politicization, but that only came from one political party. To write this off as just "politics" is to almost suggest that "both sides do it" which is obviously not the case. There is no parity here.