Improving streaming audio quality

[qba]

Hi

I use my Pixel 6 to stream music to my Yamaha A-S501 via Chromecast Audio in my office, the sources of music are usually Youtube Music or some FLAC songs I own. I just did a test using only my local FLAC music files. I removed the phone and the Chromecast Audio, replaced my phone with a Mac book pro, and connected the Headphone jack cable straight into the laptop rather than in the Chromecast Audio. The music sounded so much better!

After the test, I read that android phones reduce the quality of the music if one uses the USB as a music output, but in my case where I’m not using the USB

Question 1: Is my Pixel 6 still reducing the quality when is sending the information wirelessly via wifi to the Chromecast Audio?

I read that using the Chromecast Audio internal DAC is a bad idea because it will reduce the quality as well, so I’m planning to buy an optical cable that in one end looks like a mini headphone jack so I could connect to the Chromecast audio and do the digital to analog conversion inside the A-S501.

Question 2: Can the optical input into the A-S501 maintain the lossless quality of the FLAC files and is it compatible with Hi-Res audio or does optical have limitations as well?

I really would like to keep using my phone as the source of music, but my goal is for the sound coming from the phone to be the same or better than the one coming from the laptop.

I read somewhere that if one uses an app called “USB Audio Player Pro” it will take control of the phone USB C port and it will stop the reduction of the music quality, so I was thinking that maybe in this way if I upgrade to the Yamaha A-S801 that has a USB input, I may be able to send better music quality to the amp via the USB cable because I think that the A-S801 USB can take Hi-Res quality. but I do prefer to find a wireless solution so I don’t have to spend money on the more expensive A-S801.

Thanks in advanced

Alex

 

[lovinthehd]

What was better about using the analog output of your computer? Was it simply a level difference? Often is the case for "differences"....

The CCA internal dac is decent, not likely a particularly audible difference. I've used both the internal dac and connecting digitally....I couldn't tell a particular difference. Doubtful the dac in the integrated amp will be particularly different either. CCAs do have a bandwidth limitation, IIRC it's 96/24. You might like this https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-chromecast-audio-digital-output.4544/

I don't know why the android phone would somehow screw up the transmission of the bits particularly, haven't heard that particularly before. I don't seem to have any problems directing streaming with my android phone/tablet. I would definitely check into audio settings in either case to make sure they're at least equivalent, level matching could be more difficult.

 

[qba]

Thanks lovinthehd, for the quick reply,

What was better was the clarity of the music, I was listening to Hotel California via youtube music and it didn't sound clear, it was like the sound wasn't clean it was muddy, Then I uploaded a .flac lossless version of the song in my phone and almost the same result. Once I plug the cable from the back of the amp straight into the Mac book playing the same .flac file the difference was clear. I did some research and I found that all these downsamplings or quality caps happening inside my phone and inside the Chromecast Audio.

I will check the audio setting on the Macbook, I never use that computer for audio so is probably whatever the default is. Thanks for the link.

Below is a video that talks about android reducing the quality.

 

[lovinthehd]

Darko isn't worth listening to IMO, mostly just an audio products shill who ignores science. Different levels can be interpreted as clarity, tho. Checking all audio settings and turning off "features" for comparison is also necessary. CCA can handle a flac file, but as I mentioned before believe the max sampling frequency/bit depth is 96/24, whether CCA downsamples I don't know, but shouldn't on any content within its capabilities. I don't have anything exceeding 96/24 I play thru it in any case. Many would just complain the dac/analog section of a computer is totally inadequate (but Apple uses decent stuff as far as I know). I think you're overall looking for differences that don't particularly exist.....

 

[Golfx]

Your Yamaha almost certainly downsamples all music to 48hz unless you shut off all DSP and room correction. Perhaps it has a pure direct setting.


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[qba]

Darko isn't worth listening to IMO, mostly just an audio products shill who ignores science.

Thanks for this!

Checking all audio settings and turning off "features" for comparison is also necessary. ....

I will do that.

I think you're overall looking for differences that don't particularly exist.....

I wasn't aware of any of this bit-perfect issue when I was doing the test. And the difference was real, when you say check the levels do you mean the volume in both devices or some eq slides somewhere on the Mac OS?

 

[qba]

Your Yamaha almost certainly downsamples all music to 48hz unless you shut off all DSP and room correction. Perhaps it has a pure direct setting.

Thanks for the reply Golfx, as you can tell by my questions I'm a newbie at all this. Do you mean the DAC on the back of my amp will downsample the quality of the music as well?

I'm so confused why all these downsampling? Wasn't this amp build to listen to good quality music? Unless all this downsampling doesn't really change the quality that much and I'm looking at the wrong place to improve the music quality.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for this!



I will do that.



I wasn't aware of any of this bit-perfect issue when I was doing the test. And the difference was real, when you say check the levels do you mean the volume in both devices or some eq slides somewhere on the Mac OS?

I mean level matching so you have a fair basis for comparison. What was real particularly in specific terms other than some impression of difference? Normally you'd level match with voltage at the speaker outputs for accuracy, maybe with just an spl meter but even a small difference in volume, the higher one is usually deemed "better". A common root for "differences" in audio setups. I don't think with your own streaming you have to worry about bit perfect....streaming services and isps who knows Even if your Marantz has another adc/dac step for processing, doubt it is particularly audible. Here's my favorite audio cartoon

 

[qba]

I mean level matching so you have a fair basis for comparison. What was real particularly in specific terms other than some impression of difference? Normally you'd level match with voltage at the speaker outputs for accuracy, maybe with just an spl meter but even a small difference in volume, the higher one is usually deemed "better". A common root for "differences" in audio setups. I don't think with your own streaming you have to worry about bit perfect....streaming services and isps who knows Even if your Marantz has another adc/dac step for processing, doubt it is particularly audible. Here's my favorite audio cartoon

View attachment 52063

lovinthehd lol I'm laughing so hard at that cartoon, say no more!!!! I love music but for me, the family, the house, investment, career, and vacations always come first. I always buy second-hand everything when it comes to audio, just mid-quality stuff, good enough to enjoy. I already got a place in the house to watch movies and listen to music, that we never use lol, ceiling speakers in the kitchen, and a sub that was meant to listen to music but in reality is mainly used to watch Netflix and Youtube channels, I got all the amps, and electronic gear hidden away on a basement electronic room so is a sweet setup. So now that I'm working from home because of Covid I said to myself why not add some equipment on the desk to enjoy music, well this is where we are now, and trust me after looking at that cartoon there is not more going deeper into this rabbit hole lol, What I have now sound way better than those horrible pair of Google Nest Audio speakers I returned the same day as they arrived, I purchased those after following for YouTubers that were acting like they were blown away by the "quality" of these things in their reviews.

Thanks for the wise advice

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL did I hear rabbit hole?

 

[PENG]

lovinthehd lol I'm laughing so hard at that cartoon, say no more!!!! I love music but for me, the family, the house, investment, career, and vacations always come first. I always buy second-hand everything when it comes to audio, just mid-quality stuff, good enough to enjoy. I already got a place in the house to watch movies and listen to music, that we never use lol, ceiling speakers in the kitchen, and a sub that was meant to listen to music but in reality is mainly used to watch Netflix and Youtube channels, I got all the amps, and electronic gear hidden away on a basement electronic room so is a sweet setup. So now that I'm working from home because of Covid I said to myself why not add some equipment on the desk to enjoy music, well this is where we are now, and trust me after looking at that cartoon there is not more going deeper into this rabbit hole lol, What I have now sound way better than those horrible pair of Google Nest Audio speakers I returned the same day as they arrived, I purchased those after following for YouTubers that were acting like they were blown away by the "quality" of these things in their reviews.

Thanks for the wise advice

You come to the right place for answers!

There are lots of hearsay on the internet. The fact is, for the best possible music quality, once you get pass the entry level stuff (some are surprisingly good too such the CCA), you should focus on the recording/mastering quality of the source contents.

If the original recording is of very high quality, even when encoded in MP3 256 kbps, it could sound better than the highest possible resolution Flac that is originated from a poorer recording quality version of the same music.

Your downloaded flac files were probably of higher recording quality in this case, vs the same music you were streaming directly from your CCA/Youtube. It could also that when streaming from Youtube, those files happened to have much lower resolution such as 128 kbps or even lower. Some Youtube music can sound very good too.

By the way, Flac, the format itself is lossless, but it does not guarantee high resolution as it depends, again, on the original source so not all flac files are lossless, though I would expect most are.

For what you seem to be trying to achieve, I would not recommend the A-S801. Its DAC isn't that great, not even better than those in AVRs though the DAC is typically not the bottleneck at all. The older A-S700 is actually much better if you can find one used. That one seems to be the only Yamaha integrated amp I would recommend for audiophiles in the below $1,200 range. Other than that you would go have to go right to the A-S1100. To me, the S-701 and 801 are what I would consider AVR derived amps, they are good too, just not cost effective imo.

 

[Golfx]

It is all about limited processing power of your devices, phone, DAC, AVR, Etc. They can receive a hi-res sampling rate but do not have enough processing power to pass it to your speakers without relieving the burden of simultaneously processing by downsampling to 48hz. You likely cannot hear above 18hz but still it does no harm to chase mathematical purity of hi-res sampling rates being played through low distortion AVRs.


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[qba]

Thanks for the reply PENG

If the original recording is of very high quality, even when encoded in MP3 256 kbps, it could sound better than the highest possible resolution Flac that is originated from a poorer recording quality version of the same music.

Very good point, you could have a copy of a bad recording in a lossless format and it will still sound bad

Your downloaded flac files were probably of higher recording quality in this case, vs the same music you were streaming directly from your CCA/Youtube. It could also that when streaming from Youtube, those files happened to have much lower resolution such as 128 kbps or even lower. Some Youtube music can sound very good too.

In my test I had the same copy of the flac files physically in the phone and in the laptop.

By the way, Flac, the format itself is lossless, but it does not guarantee high resolution as it depends, again, on the original source so not all flac files are lossless, though I would expect most are.

Good point again, good to be aware of that as well

For what you seem to be trying to achieve, I would not recommend the A-S801. Its DAC isn't that great, not even better than those in AVRs though the DAC is typically not the bottleneck at all. The older A-S700 is actually much better if you can find one used. That one seems to be the only Yamaha integrated amp I would recommend for audiophiles in the below $1,200 range. Other than that you would go have to go right to the A-S1100. To me, the S-701 and 801 are what I would consider AVR derived amps, they are good too, just not cost effective imo.

Yep after watching that cartoon I'll stick with the A-S501. So don't even bother with using the A-S501 internal DAC? Just keep using the CCA one?

 

[qba]

It is all about limited processing power of your devices, phone, DAC, AVR, Etc. They can receive a hi-res sampling rate but do not have enough processing power to pass it to your speakers without relieving the burden of simultaneously processing by downsampling to 48hz. You likely cannot hear above 18hz but still it does no harm to chase mathematical purity of hi-res sampling rates being played through low distortion AVRs.

Thanks again Golfx, so the downsampling is happening because there is not sufficient power to process the data on those music files, but it doesn't matter because what is being removed is above our hearing capabilities? I'm in my 40's so I got old ears that can't probably hear a lot of what is being removed, even if is within human capabilities lol

 

[Golfx]

You are correct.


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[qba]

Guys thanks for all your help guys this was very informative. Now the issue is fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone in another forum asked me to check if the ""Full Dynamic Range" was on in the Chromecast and that was it!!!!

I turn it on I did some testing with FLAC files in both the Laptop connected to the headphone jack and Casting via the phone and it sounded the same!!!!!!

I did some testing based on what PENG said about paying attention to the Master, with the same songs in Youtube Music vs the FLAC casting with my phone and I could clearly see the difference. So I guess the version of the song in MP3 from youtube is coming from a lower quality master, Unless the file itself has a very low bitrate.

Anyway, I'm not changing my lifestyle because of adding music to my work desk because I'm done, no homeless experience for me

Thanks to everybody for spending time in their life trying to help a stranger with his audio issues At least the experience was very educational to me.

 

[lovinthehd]

Always best to start with the best source you can get. Altho I use Spotify premium level for streaming and don't feel I'm lacking anything particularly. Most of it is in the recording itself in the long run. Having common levels and settings is key to comparison, tho!

 

[qba]

Always best to start with the best source you can get. Altho I use Spotify premium level for streaming and don't feel I'm lacking anything particularly. Most of it is in the recording itself in the long run. Having common levels and settings is key to comparison, tho!

Thanks, lovinthehd you were right about the levels, I checked that all the settings for audio were similar and I made sure the volume was similar as well. I'm too cheap to pay for Spotify and Youtube Premium, so I selected Youtube Premium to get rid of commercials, so Youtube Music Premium is included in the price. Google is competing with Spotify and Apple, Apple is using the lossless format and Spotify is following, so I'm guessing is just a matter of time before Google is forced to do it to keep up with their competitors in this field. If after some months they don't give any signs of going in this direction I may have to switch to Apple Music or Spotify.

Cheers!

 

[qba]

One more question, I got two sets of volume controls, one from the Chromecast and the one on the amp, should I keep the Chromecast audio all the way to the max and then control the audio with the amp? or have the amp volume halfway and control the volume with the Chromecast Audio?

 

[lovinthehd]

Generally I'd max the source/CCA volume.