Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[ryanosaur]

I plaid guilty, I won't post anymore about biamp, YPAO, Atmos, testing game, PC input, TV apps through eArc vs external devices to the amp, extra bass management with full range in front speaker, vs using crossover, using iOS app, web interface. I also tested Deezer, Spotify, with embedded Yamaha, vs yamaha app, vs app though AirPlay. I was thinking it could be usefull for people trying to get the max of their AVR, to see what are the actual drawbacks. i had a billion and a half questions for sure when it was how to setup a subwoofer, then to figure out how to not get YPAO to overshoot the speakers levels. To me all these informations could at some point be related to Yamaha 2021 avr line up.

I will just post about power to match the OP : I cranked a little bit the volume to stress test a little bit the beast. I like how it brings you close to a real theater. Running -10dB I made a few jumps watching Avengers Civil War. It's not even about being louder, it's all about dynamism. I was "worried" driving 11 channels it mays lack a bit of power with my speakers that aren't the most efficients but it's way more than enough for my living room (24 by 20 feet).

Please don't stop posting. Start a thread when you need to; join in other threads and participate! I encourage you to be active here: learn, share, teach and guide!!!!

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Please don't stop posting. Start a thread when you need to; join in other threads and participate! I encourage you to be active here: learn, share, teach and guide!!!!

I won’t stop. Everyone is right about me unable to be a little bit more organized and rigorous about posting things related to this thread. I just have to think if it fits this one particularly. I liked the interactions I got with you guys. I learned so much.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I won’t stop. Everyone is right about me unable to be a little bit more organized and rigorous about posting things related to this thread. I just have to think if it fits this one particularly. I liked the interactions I got with you guys. I learned so much.

I agree with ryan. But I can see that it’s just so much easier to attach questions to a thread that you’re already in. It does benefit the group to start new threads though. Especially for things that can be more specific. For example, I might start one soon to help me learn about all the ins and outs about streaming services. I’m pretty savvy, but hey, nobody knows everything lol.

Please don't stop posting. Start a thread when you need to; join in other threads and participate! I encourage you to be active here: learn, share, teach and guide!!!!

Old friend. This…

 

[AVR Enthu]

I plead guilty, I won't post anymore about biamp, YPAO, Atmos, testing game, PC input, TV apps through eArc vs external devices to the amp, extra bass management with full range in front speaker, vs using crossover, using iOS app, web interface. I also tested Deezer, Spotify, with embedded Yamaha, vs yamaha app, vs app though AirPlay. I was thinking it could be usefull for people trying to get the max of their AVR, to see what are the actual drawbacks. i had a billion and a half questions for sure when it was how to setup a subwoofer, then to figure out how to not get YPAO to overshoot the speakers levels. To me all these informations could at some point be related to Yamaha 2021 avr line up.

Man, continue to post testing results. Only experimenting with all possible features can possibly expose issues to be reported to Yamaha. I commend yuor dedication, passion and amount of time you have to interrogate all those functions. Inevitably in those situations, some diversion and side comments occur, but it's not difficult to refocus.

I prefer to read about sqeezing every single drop of sweat out of those expensive devices, rather than casually praising how good "the beast" is.

 

[AVR Enthu]

I will just post about power to match the OP

Hahaha! The OP also mentions "8K features". Don't get me started with that one! It does not exist.

 

[Replicant 7]

Lol, this YAMAHA thread got derailed all the way back at page 2. @OldAndSlowDev keep posting up. The Real fun is gonna happen when Gene post up his findings of that BEASTLY!!A6A!!

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Lol, this YAMAHA thread got derailed all the way back at page 2. @OldAndSlowDev keep posting up. The Real fun is gonna happen when Gene post up his findings of that BEASTLY!!A6A!!

I am about to sell a kidney to buy an audio precision and to get us the answers we all want !

 

[Replicant 7]

Hahaha! The OP also mentions "8K features". Don't get me started with that one! It does not exist.

Don't quit now! Let's keep it going.

 

[diablo676]

I recall someone having a complaint about the YPAO not correcting Atmos Enabled speakers in these models (they never have in previous models either).

Just noticed a recent post by Dante01 on AVForums -

"Most AV receiver's omit EQing Atmos enabled speakers because of the stupid HRTF crossovers Dolby insist upon them having in order to be classed as being Dolby endorsed.

Are HRTF’s Necessary in Dolby Atmos Elevation Speakers?
Dolby Atmos Elevation speakers employ a HRTF in their analog crossovers in attempt to trick the brain into perceiving height. But is this really necessary, or can it degrade their sound quality?

Not sure if it is still the case, but even DIRAC used to ignore them? The same is also true of Audyssey "

I was in the dark about which Dolby Enabled speakers had crossovers designed with 'head related transfer functions' when I bought some three years ago.

The first ones I got, PSB Imagine XA speakers were 'designed in conjunction with Dolby Labs' and the first ones to be approved - if my memory serves me well.

However, when I measured them they were almost ruler-flat in response. So much so that I'm using four of them as the 30 degree heights for Auro 3D.

I then got some KEF Q50As for the lounge. Supposed to be 105Hz-18.5kHz (+/- 3dB) yet when measured I saw a huge rise at 7kHz - a HRTF frequency. (plus big dip at 1kHz which was odd, though probably not planned).

So maybe Yamaha, and others, seem as confused as the speaker manufacturers.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

I recall someone having a complaint about the YPAO not correcting Atmos Enabled speakers in these models (they never have in previous models either).

Just noticed a recent post by Dante01 on AVForums -

"Most AV receiver's omit EQing Atmos enabled speakers because of the stupid HRTF crossovers Dolby insist upon them having in order to be classed as being Dolby endorsed.

Are HRTF’s Necessary in Dolby Atmos Elevation Speakers?
Dolby Atmos Elevation speakers employ a HRTF in their analog crossovers in attempt to trick the brain into perceiving height. But is this really necessary, or can it degrade their sound quality?

Not sure if it is still the case, but even DIRAC used to ignore them? The same is also true of Audyssey "

I was in the dark about which Dolby Enabled speakers had crossovers designed with 'head related transfer functions' when I bought some three years ago.

The first ones I got, PSB Imagine XA speakers were 'designed in conjunction with Dolby Labs' and the first ones to be approved - if my memory serves me well.

However, when I measured them they were almost ruler-flat in response. So much so that I'm using four of them as the 30 degree heights for Auro 3D.

I then got some KEF Q50As for the lounge. Supposed to be 105Hz-18.5kHz (+/- 3dB) yet when measured I saw a huge rise at 7kHz - a HRTF frequency. (plus big dip at 1kHz which was odd, though probably not planned).

So maybe Yamaha, and others, seem as confused as the speaker manufacturers.

interesting that Auro3D is requiring heights to be at 30 degrees... It's also the minimum recommended for Dolby Atmos on wall front heights. I woke up this morning and I checked, my front heights are at a 20 degrees angle and I need to think about a totally different approach if I want to exploit Dolby Atmos as intended. It would be cool to have YPAO to tell not only the speaker heights relative to the listening position but also the vertical angle. I know with the height and the distance it's easy to use trigonometry to get the angle but the amp already have all this computed. I don't get why back surrounds angle aren't computed as well.
My best friends these last weeks...

 

[TheLamonster]

interesting that Auro3D is requiring heights to be at 30 degrees... It's also the minimum recommended for Dolby Atmos on wall front heights. I woke up this morning and I checked, my front heights are at a 20 degrees angle and I need to think about a totally different approach if I want to exploit Dolby Atmos as intended. It would be cool to have YPAO to tell not only the speaker heights relative to the listening position but also the vertical angle. I know with the height and the distance it's easy to use trigonometry to get the angle but the amp already have all this computed. I don't get why back surrounds angle aren't computed as well.
My best friends these last weeks...
View attachment 51901

These are great but if you don't have one, you can use a free smartphone app with a laser pointer. That's my tip of the day

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

interesting that Auro3D is requiring heights to be at 30 degrees... It's also the minimum recommended for Dolby Atmos on wall front heights. I woke up this morning and I checked, my front heights are at a 20 degrees angle and I need to think about a totally different approach if I want to exploit Dolby Atmos as intended. It would be cool to have YPAO to tell not only the speaker heights relative to the listening position but also the vertical angle. I know with the height and the distance it's easy to use trigonometry to get the angle but the amp already have all this computed. I don't get why back surrounds angle aren't computed as well.
My best friends these last weeks...
View attachment 51901

The reason that Dolby and Auro use different angles is because they are completely different in design. Auro is a channel based system and has a different approach to Dolbys object based system.

 

[diablo676]

interesting that Auro3D is requiring heights to be at 30 degrees... It's also the minimum recommended for Dolby Atmos on wall front heights. I woke up this morning and I checked, my front heights are at a 20 degrees angle and I need to think about a totally different approach if I want to exploit Dolby Atmos as intended. It would be cool to have YPAO to tell not only the speaker heights relative to the listening position but also the vertical angle. I know with the height and the distance it's easy to use trigonometry to get the angle but the amp already have all this computed. I don't get why back surrounds angle aren't computed as well.
My best friends these last weeks...
View attachment 51901

I use an angle app on my phone and put it on a long strip of wood to measure the speaker angles. But any way which works will do.

I made some adjustable speaker stand extensions for the rear heights, which meant I could either have 30 degree Auro or Atmos Enabled speakers much higher than normal. (Fronts were already at 30 degrees above projection screen)

At first I just used them in Atmos Enabled mode. One of the Atmos Demo vids has a scene where rain is supposed to seem to be falling directly on your head. And with the raised speakers I sensed this for te first time - at nearer head height it seemed either side of me.

Now I've since changed them to 30 degree Auro. I have lost the 'rain on head' slightly - but regular Atmos seems much better.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Majorusa]

I recall someone having a complaint about the YPAO not correcting Atmos Enabled speakers in these models (they never have in previous models either).

Just noticed a recent post by Dante01 on AVForums -

"Most AV receiver's omit EQing Atmos enabled speakers because of the stupid HRTF crossovers Dolby insist upon them having in order to be classed as being Dolby endorsed.

Are HRTF’s Necessary in Dolby Atmos Elevation Speakers?
Dolby Atmos Elevation speakers employ a HRTF in their analog crossovers in attempt to trick the brain into perceiving height. But is this really necessary, or can it degrade their sound quality?

Not sure if it is still the case, but even DIRAC used to ignore them? The same is also true of Audyssey "

I was in the dark about which Dolby Enabled speakers had crossovers designed with 'head related transfer functions' when I bought some three years ago.

The first ones I got, PSB Imagine XA speakers were 'designed in conjunction with Dolby Labs' and the first ones to be approved - if my memory serves me well.

However, when I measured them they were almost ruler-flat in response. So much so that I'm using four of them as the 30 degree heights for Auro 3D.

I then got some KEF Q50As for the lounge. Supposed to be 105Hz-18.5kHz (+/- 3dB) yet when measured I saw a huge rise at 7kHz - a HRTF frequency. (plus big dip at 1kHz which was odd, though probably not planned).

So maybe Yamaha, and others, seem as confused as the speaker manufacturers.

Here is my reply to Dante.
Audyssey is correcting them. See the following pictures from Marantz calibrations.

Dirac is for sure measuring the Atmos speakers. I cannot access the Dirac measurements of my NAD t778 since I returned it.

Anyhow, I moved my Atmos speakers as height speakers to be able to use them in Auro 3D.

 

[AVR Enthu]

Don't quit now! Let's keep it going.

The truth of usefulness of 8K in one sentence - practically non-existent, not affordable and useless

- content: a few trivial trial videos to watch and say: "I saw palms on a beach in 8K"
- content: experimental broadcasts of Olympic Games in Tokyo (over Intel Xeon platform) - once in a blue moon
- content: one broadcasting station in Japan - programme is so "rich" that you would not want to watch it daily
- 8K TVs: hoping to sell up to 10 million units in total worldwide by 2025-2026 (hardly a mainstream...)
- 8K games: impossible on consoles; need new gen of GPUs to bring it to 8K/30 and another gen ot two for 8K/60
- 8K AVRs: those have arrived and are waiting... and waiting... patiently to be used one day with content
- 8K HDMI dongles: non-existent, no content
- 8K Blu Ray: non-existent and not planned

Any company marketing anything "8K" - complete waste of time; a pie in the sly.

 

[Falstaff]

The truth of usefulness of 8K in one sentence - practically non-existent, not affordable and useless

- content: a few trivial trial videos to watch and say: "I saw palms on a beach in 8K"
- content: experimental broadcasts of Olympic Games in Tokyo (over Intel Xeon platform) - once in a blue moon
- content: one broadcasting station in Japan - programme is so "rich" that you would not want to watch it daily
- 8K TVs: hoping to sell up to 10 million units in total worldwide by 2025-2026 (hardly a mainstream...)
- 8K games: impossible on consoles; need new gen of GPUs to bring it to 8K/30 and another gen ot two for 8K/60
- 8K AVRs: those have arrived and are waiting... and waiting... patiently to be used one day with content
- 8K HDMI dongles: non-existent, no content
- 8K Blu Ray: non-existent and not planned

Any company marketing anything "8K" - complete waste of time; a pie in the sly.

I remember reading an article about 4K not being asked for by consumers. It was the television manufactures that wanted it to sell new sets due to the low cost of 1080p displays. I image 8K is no different. I mean, how many people do you know who have 4K displays but don’t have a way to actually get 4K content onto it? I bought my A8A as the first set to get there, the display won’t come until the spring.

 

[Replicant 7]

The truth of usefulness of 8K in one sentence - practically non-existent, not affordable and useless

- content: a few trivial trial videos to watch and say: "I saw palms on a beach in 8K"
- content: experimental broadcasts of Olympic Games in Tokyo (over Intel Xeon platform) - once in a blue moon
- content: one broadcasting station in Japan - programme is so "rich" that you would not want to watch it daily
- 8K TVs: hoping to sell up to 10 million units in total worldwide by 2025-2026 (hardly a mainstream...)
- 8K games: impossible on consoles; need new gen of GPUs to bring it to 8K/30 and another gen ot two for 8K/60
- 8K AVRs: those have arrived and are waiting... and waiting... patiently to be used one day with content
- 8K HDMI dongles: non-existent, no content
- 8K Blu Ray: non-existent and not planned

Any company marketing anything "8K" - complete waste of time; a pie in the sly.

That's exactly what I've been trying to tell everybody about 8K!

 

[Replicant 7]

I remember reading an article about 4K not being asked for by consumers. It was the television manufactures that wanted it to sell new sets due to the low cost of 1080p displays. I image 8K is no different. I mean, how many people do you know who have 4K displays but don’t have a way to actually get 4K content onto it? I bought my A8A as the first set to get there, the display won’t come until the spring.

Not to mention they're just now getting the bugs worked out of 4K TV's. Plus all the BS that goes alone with 4K HDR Dolby Vision. Take a walk in any Walmart or Target store, you'll see on the boxes 4K UHD, Dolby Vision, HDR 10+ what you won't see on the box is the nit rate you need in order to even fully utilize Dolby Vision. I didn't get my RX-A4A for the 2.1 or the 4K 120 or the VRR or the 8K thingy's. I personally could care less if my RX-A4A ever gets updated for those.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

The truth of usefulness of 8K in one sentence - practically non-existent, not affordable and useless

- content: a few trivial trial videos to watch and say: "I saw palms on a beach in 8K"
- content: experimental broadcasts of Olympic Games in Tokyo (over Intel Xeon platform) - once in a blue moon
- content: one broadcasting station in Japan - programme is so "rich" that you would not want to watch it daily
- 8K TVs: hoping to sell up to 10 million units in total worldwide by 2025-2026 (hardly a mainstream...)
- 8K games: impossible on consoles; need new gen of GPUs to bring it to 8K/30 and another gen ot two for 8K/60
- 8K AVRs: those have arrived and are waiting... and waiting... patiently to be used one day with content
- 8K HDMI dongles: non-existent, no content
- 8K Blu Ray: non-existent and not planned

Any company marketing anything "8K" - complete waste of time; a pie in the sly.

Nyquist limit => human eye can see 120 "things"/"pixel" per degree at best so for 8k tv width 7,680 / 120 = 64 degrees so for a 80 inches TV it means you start to see detail when close than half width / half cone (40 / tan 32) = 5 feet. Will you really sit at 5 feet from a 80 inches tv to see the details ?

 

[clone1008]

- content: one broadcasting station in Japan - programme is so "rich" that you would not want to watch it daily

What does this mean?