Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[clone1008]

My Eagles Farewell Tour in Melbourne is an attestation to this....

Absolutely incredible concert!!! Do you listen to it or watch it?

 

[3db]

I was never a fan of multi positioning tests of YPAO ever since it was introduced nor am I a fan of it in Audessy either. The reason for this is that it reduces the beneficiary effects at the MLP by trying to compensate for the other seating positions. You cant argue with physics. Its easily proven with REW and a quality USB mic. All my measurements were worse off with multipostioning than with one MLP.

I dont know if YPAO has been improved for better bass PEQ since they released the AXA and VXA series. I know it sucked on the RX-A3060 and that a miniDSP with REW is light years better even for a single sub. I wish Yamaha would drop YPAO and incorporate DIRAC.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

« Just another tune… »
I am once again listening music for hours without recognizing some of my favorites.
It’s maybe just matter of taste but god I have lost years of good stereo sound with my old Denon. This Yamaha doesn’t stop to amaze me.
Gene can’t ruin my happiness with 20000% THD measurements , all I hear makes me smile.
Can’t wait to beef my lows in stereo with a sub…

 

[AVR Enthu]

The bass is more distorted and fatiguing on the Denon. Without doing anything to both of them clearly the Yamaha sounds way better, and my wife ran out the room when I started testing the Denon.

If a wife stays in room, does it mean that Yamaha's bass is dynamic enough?

 

[chapp]

I would say this - how any Yamaha or Marantz/Denon sounds is 100% dependent on the SETUP.

IOW, you could have 100 Yamaha A8 in 100 rooms and every A8 could sound differently.

It’s the same way with every AVR/AVP.

Correct and it depends on the other equipment one has, too. Also everyone perceives sound in their own way. Video is similar.

 

[chapp]

If a wife stays in room, does it mean that Yamaha's bass is dynamic enough?

I, as well as her, likes punchy bass. Not boomy that sounds distorted all over the place and buzzes in your ear. I am using the EQ to calibrate the bass and will let you all know the outcome a bit later.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If YPAO can’t get you that awesome subwoofer bass, just use Manual PEQ for the subs and set the 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz and 100Hz to +3.0 dB and Q=0.5. And call me in the morning.

 

[chapp]

« Just another tune… »
I am once again listening music for hours without recognizing some of my favorites.
It’s maybe just matter of taste but god I have lost years of good stereo sound with my old Denon. This Yamaha doesn’t stop to amaze me.
Gene can’t ruin my happiness with 20000% THD measurements , all I hear makes me smile.
Can’t wait to beef my lows in stereo with a sub…

Multi quotes I don't get too well and this is why I reply separately to these posts. Forgive me.
This is just my opinion and I do not say it to offend anyone...
Test equipment and specifications are sure great and lots of other things, too. lets just discuss a few.
Looks good on paper
Manufacturers may or may not like? But sales people cannot stop showing you that 0.000007% THD, etc.
We have the best DAC's and processors with specifications even an Engineer, like myself currently retired, is unable to comprehend. Well, I guess you get my point. I have found that the only TEST EQUIPMENT that should and REALLY matters, is the one we all have. This is what it is:
For Audio Equipment: YOUR EARS
For Video Equipment: YOUR EYES
For Both.... EYES/EARS..... and that's you my friend, you don't have to go out and buy anything and let another tell you how it sounds and shows. You are the Master who can judge for yourself.
Good reviews are worth the most here, but you have to take it for what it is; someone else's opinion. Some people are quite biased and some are truthful. I do not profess to be a Pro in this Audio/Video, however, I do know what I like and what I want, and I want the simplest way to achieve it. In the old days when I used to have my Stereo Receivers and amps etc. You had physical audio Graphic and Parametric equalizers. You had Companders/Expanders like the dBX. They added colors and looked good in a rack, but simpler is best. I still have these in my garage collecting dust (covered). That's history... but when some people speak of the good old days and that's like 20 to 25 years ago, its a laugh. My Dad was into Music and reasonably decent equipment. In the 70's, I started buying my own Stereo stuff as a teen and never stopped. You can say that music was in my bones. " I still love bone rattling bass".
Back to reality: Friends do not depend on YPAO, AUDYSSEY, DIRAC, REW or any of the others that are out there being sold by the various competing companies. Sure they equalize your Room, but they end up taking away lots of good Frequencies etc. A computer makes calculations and fools us into believing that this or that is good for us. Well, lets wake up, you are the only one that can judge that. This is one fact why most of us are lacking BASS after the darn Auto configuration. It does not even get the Large/Small speaker Crossover thing right either. (Another topic that most will battle for eternity) Not important as I always set this myself anyways. I will recommend one thing for you AV guys/gals. Just get a reasonably good SPL METER. I like the old analog ones because the meter is much more pleasing to my eyes and to me, accurate. (well, easier). If you can get your hands on an old Radio Shack one on eBay... go for it.
This is my way to get my system to sound how I like it. I always say that you'll never have 2 or 3 or 4 Sweet Spots as it is not possible. However, you can still enjoy the sound from various locations, but it will never be the same. If you sit in the middle of your HT room and you have a 2 seater couch approximately 4 feet wide. Then 2 persons, possibly 3, with a little wider chair will be able to get the full potential of your calibration for HT and Stereo. Some at the sides and other areas can still get enjoyment from it, too, only they'll hear things even you at the center may not and vise versa. This is the same for a tv, you may spend weeks calibrating it, even ISF standards, but the view angle changes every time you move location.
The reason I am checking out the 8500 for myself is simply because my brother in law bought it and want me to set it up for him. He got brainwashed by You Tube and want "THE VOICE OF GOD". Well, its a good thing because I get to test it out.
I am now dizzy typing so much and need some coffee. Thanks for indulging me, and remember, no offence to anyone.
regards.

 

[diablo676]

Should the line be straight? The dip in your subs means there is less DB at that frequency? Would you thne have to fix through PEQ? I am new to how to make the ypao better or correct. My subs don't have the punch they used too

At the moment my setup is a bit unusual. When I got the A8A I intended to change my speaker set-up so I didn't want to spend hours getting it right then change everything later. So I put in an old Dspeaker Antimode 2 unit between the AVR and the subs. When I run the Antimode (got its own mike) it flattens the sound from the subs automatically. So the A8A sees it doesn't need to do anything (in theory).

I don't recommend the Antimode. It is far from perfect, is easy to get wrong and is expensive.

I've got all my changes made to the speakers and subs now so I will start using REW and miniDSP 2x4 HD setup soon.

An easy-ish way of doing a rough setup, if you don't have special stuff yet, is to use YouTube video of a frequency sweep using a sound analyser on your phone to measure the loudness.

No phone microphone will give an accurate representation of the sound pressure at very low levels - but will let you see big dips or peaks. Always try to cut peaks rather than increase dips. Then increase overall volume. Narrow dips are usually inaudible.

I use this YouTube sweep -

I have an Android phone and use Sound Analyzer App by Dominique Rodrigues. But there are similar things on iPhone.

When I first ran YPAO without my Antimode in the chain I got a 17dB peak at 41 Hz. That's one of my room modes. YPAO got the frequency right but only applied a 6dB cut. Sounded terrible.

 

[Replicant 7]

« Just another tune… »
I am once again listening music for hours without recognizing some of my favorites.
It’s maybe just matter of taste but god I have lost years of good stereo sound with my old Denon. This Yamaha doesn’t stop to amaze me.
Gene can’t ruin my happiness with 20000% THD measurements , all I hear makes me smile.
Can’t wait to beef my lows in stereo with a sub…

Yeah, Yamaha nailed it for music with this Adventage line. Movies also, I do use the enhancer and high-res mode when streaming Net Radio. Also the Low Frequency on PEQ. I don't know enough about the higher slew rate that Yamaha claims to have a impact on the dynamics. Your room, placement of your speakers, the acoustics in your room plays a lot into what you'll hear and let's not forget your source use, very important.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Multi quotes I don't get too well and this is why I reply separately to these posts. Forgive me.
This is just my opinion and I do not say it to offend anyone...
Test equipment and specifications are sure great and lots of other things, too. lets just discuss a few.
Looks good on paper
Manufacturers may or may not like? But sales people cannot stop showing you that 0.000007% THD, etc.
We have the best DAC's and processors with specifications even an Engineer, like myself currently retired, is unable to comprehend. Well, I guess you get my point. I have found that the only TEST EQUIPMENT that should and REALLY matters, is the one we all have. This is what it is:
For Audio Equipment: YOUR EARS
For Video Equipment: YOUR EYES
For Both.... EYES/EARS..... and that's you my friend, you don't have to go out and buy anything and let another tell you how it sounds and shows. You are the Master who can judge for yourself.
Good reviews are worth the most here, but you have to take it for what it is; someone else's opinion. Some people are quite biased and some are truthful. I do not profess to be a Pro in this Audio/Video, however, I do know what I like and what I want, and I want the simplest way to achieve it. In the old days when I used to have my Stereo Receivers and amps etc. You had physical audio Graphic and Parametric equalizers. You had Companders/Expanders like the dBX. They added colors and looked good in a rack, but simpler is best. I still have these in my garage collecting dust (covered). That's history... but when some people speak of the good old days and that's like 20 to 25 years ago, its a laugh. My Dad was into Music and reasonably decent equipment. In the 70's, I started buying my own Stereo stuff as a teen and never stopped. You can say that music was in my bones. " I still love bone rattling bass".
Back to reality: Friends do not depend on YPAO, AUDYSSEY, DIRAC, REW or any of the others that are out there being sold by the various competing companies. Sure they equalize your Room, but they end up taking away lots of good Frequencies etc. A computer makes calculations and fools us into believing that this or that is good for us. Well, lets wake up, you are the only one that can judge that. This is one fact why most of us are lacking BASS after the darn Auto configuration. It does not even get the Large/Small speaker Crossover thing right either. (Another topic that most will battle for eternity) Not important as I always set this myself anyways. I will recommend one thing for you AV guys/gals. Just get a reasonably good SPL METER. I like the old analog ones because the meter is much more pleasing to my eyes and to me, accurate. (well, easier). If you can get your hands on an old Radio Shack one on eBay... go for it.
This is my way to get my system to sound how I like it. I always say that you'll never have 2 or 3 or 4 Sweet Spots as it is not possible. However, you can still enjoy the sound from various locations, but it will never be the same. If you sit in the middle of your HT room and you have a 2 seater couch approximately 4 feet wide. Then 2 persons, possibly 3, with a little wider chair will be able to get the full potential of your calibration for HT and Stereo. Some at the sides and other areas can still get enjoyment from it, too, only they'll hear things even you at the center may not and vise versa. This is the same for a tv, you may spend weeks calibrating it, even ISF standards, but the view angle changes every time you move location.
The reason I am checking out the 8500 for myself is simply because my brother in law bought it and want me to set it up for him. He got brainwashed by You Tube and want "THE VOICE OF GOD". Well, its a good thing because I get to test it out.
I am now dizzy typing so much and need some coffee. Thanks for indulging me, and remember, no offence to anyone.
regards.

I agree, what matters is the emotion you got listening… I don’t get if you quote my post as something « fanboyist » if so it wasn’t its purpose. I bought my Yamaha for mostly bad reasons as I wanted an amp able to mix wired and wireless speakers (I finally made holes in my floor and wired everything ). I remember a study in the 90s saying above a certain quality threshold when it’s about “fidelity”, there are no more correlation between THD / Sinad measurements and what people thought it was sounding best. At some point it’s just a matter of taste and every one of us are seeing and hearing differently. My post was just to say that I am really happy with my Yamaha. I already told my hi fi journey but I will quickly tell it again. In the late 90s my girlfriend’s step father was the owner of a hifi shop. One day she invited me to listen some music there and it’s have been a revelation. Of course I listen to a maybe 50000$ system that was amazingly good. Since then I look forward to feel the same emotions in my home. And I finally, being 45, got this emotional hearing experience at home with the Yamaha. The room I am sure is 50% of the setup success. But I was driving my old B&W 704 with my Denon AVC-A1D and it was sounding flat, lacking punch, dynamic, crisp details… My columns are in the exact same position, the only thing that changed is my amp (when listening music I mean since I also bought speakers for 7.1 setup). And music is now making me cry again (I am a kind of emotional guy with music). So it’s not a scientific review with measurements for sure (and I like those reviews a lot, I am a nerd), but the purpose of an amp is to provide emotion : the RX-A8A does ! (In my room, with my columns, for my ears…). My two cents

 

[Replicant 7]

I agree, what matters is the emotion you got listening… I don’t get if you quote my post as something « fanboyist » if so it wasn’t its purpose. I bought my Yamaha for mostly bad reasons as I wanted an amp able to mix wired and wireless speakers (I finally made holes in my floor and wired everything ). I remember a study in the 90s saying above a certain quality threshold when it’s about “fidelity”, there are no more correlation between THD / Sinad measurements and what people thought it was sounding best. At some point it’s just a matter of taste and every one of us are seeing and hearing differently. My post was just to say that I am really happy with my Yamaha. I already told my hi fi journey but I will quickly tell it again. In the late 90s my girlfriend’s step father was the owner of a hifi shop. One day she invited me to listen some music there and it’s have been a revelation. Of course I listen to a maybe 50000$ system that was amazingly good. Since then I look forward to feel the same emotions in my home. And I finally, being 45, got this emotional hearing experience at home with the Yamaha. The room I am sure is 50% of the setup success. But I was driving my old B&W 704 with my Denon AVC-A1D and it was sounding flat, lacking punch, dynamic, crisp details… My columns are in the exact same position, the only thing that changed is my amp (when listening music I mean since I also bought speakers for 7.1 setup). And music is now making me cry again (I am a kind of emotional guy with music). So it’s not a scientific review with measurements for sure (and I like those reviews a lot, I am a nerd), but the purpose of an amp is to provide emotion : the RX-A8A does ! (In my room, with my columns, for my ears…). My two cents

You had a girlfriend, who's family owned a hi-fi shop? You hit gold man! Back in the 70's I dated this really nice looking girl who worked at a record shop. She's the one that got away.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

You had a girlfriend, who's family owned a hi-fi shop? You hit gold man! Back in the 70's I dated this really nice looking girl who worked at a record shop. She's the one that got away.

Yes I was 17. Our story last two years but we are still friends today. She told me she just use a Sonos simple system because it’s easy to setup. Her step father should be mad

 

[Replicant 7]

After the novelty wears off you start to see the imperfections.
YPAO is buggy.
Bug no. 1:
It corrected the sub so much that it stripped the oomph from it. Testing some movies with explosions I noticed that Yamaha A8A started to sound like Denon, no dynamics, no shaking, etc. The reason is this .
View attachment 51629
This is how much the YPAO corrected the subwoofer. In order to gain back the bass and the shaking of the couch I used the PEQ by copying the Flat and corrected the subwoofer like this.
View attachment 51631
In addition I raised the subwoofer trim to +3db and upped the Bass Tone to +1db. I got it back but there is still room for improvement.

Bug no.2:
This is how YPAO corrected my speakers.
View attachment 51632

See anything wrong? Other than the SW? It did not correct any of the presence speakers!

Bug no. 3:
Though corrected, the PEQ for the surround speakers does not appear in the Web Interface.
View attachment 51633
They appear in the TV interface not in the web interface.

Bug no 4.
The order of the PEQ frequencies is garbled in the web interface.
View attachment 51634

Bug no 5. (Tentative) AI Sound introduces artefacts or makes different sounds disappear in certain scenes. I was able to replicate the behavior several times. I will try to make a video.

I calibrated the AVR yesterday, three positions and angles.
This is the Height result.
View attachment 51635

This is the angle measurement.
View attachment 51636

Where are the angles of the Dolby atmos speakers? Where is the angle of the center? Maybe I do not understand how the whole thing is functioning.

I am pretty underwhelmed right now. Without YPAO, yesterday the whole thing sounded better. I will redo the measurements tomorrow to see if I get same results but the first experience, after the V6A which YPAO calibration was great is not good at all.

C'mon Yamaha, you can do better than this! Where is the QA? This is your flagship receiver!

I read your post over on AVforums, your really giving your A8A a work out. That's what I do with a new unit. Some good info bro. Any and all helps with a new line, nothing is gonna be perfect they'll always be trade-offs. The guys over at AVforums seem to appreciate your work.

 

[Majorusa]

Sorry to interrupt this trip on memory lane, but here is what happened after the second YPAO calibration, done on only one position where the MLP is.

It sounds worse that the previous calibration. If you compare these two you start to like the first one.
Now about the bugs:

I can confirm that there is a serious bug in how the AVR is transmitting YPAO information to the WEB Setup Interface. I used Pattern 2 for the second calibration copying the settings from pattern one. Now the front Left is not showing up in the WEB Setup Speakers page. Front Right is OK.

Still the YPAO does not correct Atmos speakers.

Next, I will, try to reset the AVR and start from scratch, but not today.
Else, it still sounds great but there is a tendency to enhance certain sounds and to make them out of place. I do not know how to explain this yet, nor how to measure. I will still do a frequency analysis as soon as I install REW on my PC.

Now, some good news. Music sounds great, the spatiality of sound is outstanding.

Unfortunately this AVR is still work in progress and was released too early into the market.

 

[Majorusa]

I read your post over on AVforums, your really giving your A8A a work out. That's what I do with a new unit. Some good info bro. Any and all helps with a new line, nothing is gonna be perfect they'll always be trade-offs. The guys over at AVforums seem to appreciate your work.

I am new to Audioholics but not on AVForums. You asked about music if I am not mistaking. Music sound great but I have the feeling that it may sound even better with the proper functioning calibration.

 

[chapp]

"Gene can’t ruin my happiness with 20000% THD measurements , all I hear makes me smile.
Can’t wait to beef my lows in stereo with a sub… "

OldAndSlowDev, this is what I responded to in your post. That you were quite correct about the spec findings and, never mind it, you are still enjoying your Yamaha. Keep enjoying it as nothing is wrong to keep making your system to be able to amaze you. I have been on that never ending journey to amazing sound and picture.
regards

 

[Replicant 7]

"Gene can’t ruin my happiness with 20000% THD measurements , all I hear makes me smile.
Can’t wait to beef my lows in stereo with a sub… "

OldAndSlowDev, this is what I responded to in your post. That you were quite correct about the spec findings and, never mind it, you are still enjoying your Yamaha. Keep enjoying it as nothing is wrong to keep making your system to be able to amaze you. I have been on that never ending journey to amazing sound and picture.
regards

My RX-A4A isn't going anywhere. What ever mess Gene found with the RX-A6A wouldn't be the first and I'm sure won't be the last of what he finds with AVR's. That's what Gene does and he is very good at what he does. I'm not as critical on the room correction thing as some of the other hard core guys are. I get it, they want as close to perfect as possible. I do use a SPL meter, I do tweak after, I do use PEQ, some not much, mostly on the lower end. But than not with all sources either. I do like reading what other's are using like XT32 and so on, it is very interesting and I've learned a lot from these guys.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Multi quotes I don't get too well and this is why I reply separately to these posts. Forgive me.
This is just my opinion and I do not say it to offend anyone...
Test equipment and specifications are sure great and lots of other things, too. lets just discuss a few.
Looks good on paper
Manufacturers may or may not like? But sales people cannot stop showing you that 0.000007% THD, etc.
We have the best DAC's and processors with specifications even an Engineer, like myself currently retired, is unable to comprehend. Well, I guess you get my point. I have found that the only TEST EQUIPMENT that should and REALLY matters, is the one we all have. This is what it is:
For Audio Equipment: YOUR EARS
For Video Equipment: YOUR EYES
For Both.... EYES/EARS..... and that's you my friend, you don't have to go out and buy anything and let another tell you how it sounds and shows. You are the Master who can judge for yourself.
Good reviews are worth the most here, but you have to take it for what it is; someone else's opinion. Some people are quite biased and some are truthful. I do not profess to be a Pro in this Audio/Video, however, I do know what I like and what I want, and I want the simplest way to achieve it. In the old days when I used to have my Stereo Receivers and amps etc. You had physical audio Graphic and Parametric equalizers. You had Companders/Expanders like the dBX. They added colors and looked good in a rack, but simpler is best. I still have these in my garage collecting dust (covered). That's history... but when some people speak of the good old days and that's like 20 to 25 years ago, its a laugh. My Dad was into Music and reasonably decent equipment. In the 70's, I started buying my own Stereo stuff as a teen and never stopped. You can say that music was in my bones. " I still love bone rattling bass".
Back to reality: Friends do not depend on YPAO, AUDYSSEY, DIRAC, REW or any of the others that are out there being sold by the various competing companies. Sure they equalize your Room, but they end up taking away lots of good Frequencies etc. A computer makes calculations and fools us into believing that this or that is good for us. Well, lets wake up, you are the only one that can judge that. This is one fact why most of us are lacking BASS after the darn Auto configuration. It does not even get the Large/Small speaker Crossover thing right either. (Another topic that most will battle for eternity) Not important as I always set this myself anyways. I will recommend one thing for you AV guys/gals. Just get a reasonably good SPL METER. I like the old analog ones because the meter is much more pleasing to my eyes and to me, accurate. (well, easier). If you can get your hands on an old Radio Shack one on eBay... go for it.
This is my way to get my system to sound how I like it. I always say that you'll never have 2 or 3 or 4 Sweet Spots as it is not possible. However, you can still enjoy the sound from various locations, but it will never be the same. If you sit in the middle of your HT room and you have a 2 seater couch approximately 4 feet wide. Then 2 persons, possibly 3, with a little wider chair will be able to get the full potential of your calibration for HT and Stereo. Some at the sides and other areas can still get enjoyment from it, too, only they'll hear things even you at the center may not and vise versa. This is the same for a tv, you may spend weeks calibrating it, even ISF standards, but the view angle changes every time you move location.
The reason I am checking out the 8500 for myself is simply because my brother in law bought it and want me to set it up for him. He got brainwashed by You Tube and want "THE VOICE OF GOD". Well, its a good thing because I get to test it out.
I am now dizzy typing so much and need some coffee. Thanks for indulging me, and remember, no offence to anyone.
regards.

Well at the end of the work day or beginning of the non-work day , our ears, eyes and brains are what matters most.

So I think the PC answer is to say that measurements are good, but we just need to be judicial and practical about the numbers, not just look for 0.0007%.

 

[diablo676]

I decided to spend a little time starting to change my subwoofer EQ from the automatic Antimode to a miniDSP. Initially just treating my two subs as if they were one, before doing anything more adventurous.

So I set up REW and took a measurement to start off with. Using the 'through' option on Parametric EQ. It showed my room mode at 41Hz as I expected. So I ran through the procedure to get REW to produce EQ settings for the miniDSP.

However I thought I'd try the settings in 'manual' in the A8A EQ first, seeing as it has a lot more settings now.

Obviously the green line is without any EQ and orange one with REW calculated EQ.

The values which REW generated (only two of them) didn't quite match those in the Yamaha exactly, but much closer than before.

Played a bit of music and very pleased. Didn't get round to putting the miniDSP in, will do that tomorrow. But just shows that you don't really need one with the new bass settings.

p.s. I intended it to slope down to 80Hz.