Rythmik FV18(x4) vs Rythmik FV25HP(x2) vs JTR Captivator 2400(x2) vs Monolith 16 THX(x2)

KING DRANZER

KING DRANZER

Audioholic
Perhaps I missed it somewhere...
@KING DRANZER
How big is your total open room volume you will be putting these Subs in?
Is the room irregular or true rectangular?
What Speakers are your Mains?

Thank you.
Currently 2000cft. But gonna carry over this same setup to 4000-5000cft room in 2Yrs.
Rectangle no irregularities.
Most probably JTR Noesis 212 HTR
50/50 Music/Movies need to do both equally well.
 
KING DRANZER

KING DRANZER

Audioholic
LOL or just stick to two until ya move.
Yes that is exactly what I was going to do. But if I went with larger SUB I was only going to limit it to 1 for now. But as you guys as saying that 4 x 18" Smaller SUBs gonna do equally good or even better then yes purchase SUBs now and add 2 Later.
 
KING DRANZER

KING DRANZER

Audioholic
Seems like all are good choices. Get a good deal from whichever company for a pair of subs and add 3rd or 4th if needed later….4 subs maybe is going to be a tough fit in 2000 cu ft. :)
See if going for around $2.5K or above subs it will only be 2 subs over time. But if going for subs under $2K then will go for 4 subs in Total.
 
KING DRANZER

KING DRANZER

Audioholic
While am at it. Do plan to get Aluminum cone over the Paper cone as the Paper cone while adding 3db for 50hz and above makes it warmer sounding. While Aluminum maintains it close to Neutral being tight and accurate.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
While am at it. Do plan to get Aluminum cone over the Paper cone as the Paper cone while adding 3db for 50hz and above makes it warmer sounding. While Aluminum maintains it close to Neutral being tight and accurate.
Eh?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I'm not going to advocate for less Woofage, ever... hell, I'm working my way towards DIY of 3 dual 15" Driver Subs.
I think the pertinent question to ask really becomes, just where you want to end up with your woofage.
If you are chasing single digits, you need special gear. If you are chasing high output mid bass, you need different gear. If you want single digit extension AND high output mid bass, you need it all!!! :D

Some of the cats over on AVS have Multiple Devastators tuned for different regions, and have Marty Subs or SI 24" drivers installed to do the work they want.
There are many ways to skin the cat.
If you want Mid Bass Slam to the extent where John Wick 2 is literally feeling like you took a shotty to the chest, then you need something that is going to create insane output from 60-150 Hz. That Mid-Bass Module will never be able to give you anything worthwhile below 20Hz... maybe a bit with room gain... but the reality of it is that even in Subwoofer Territory, there are specializations where one design isn't as well suited as another.
 
KING DRANZER

KING DRANZER

Audioholic
More marketing mumbo-jumbo.
With capitalization yet.
Yeah if there is no difference at all then it doesn't matter if I pick up Aluminum cone model. If there is and that is the difference then me going with Aluminum cone model will be a safe bet. So either way it doesn't matter. Just wanted to bring it here to know if it matters. And from the response I guess it doesn't.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah if there is no difference at all then it doesn't matter if I pick up Aluminum cone model. If there is and that is the difference then me going with Aluminum cone model will be a safe bet. So either way it doesn't matter. Just wanted to bring it here to know if it matters. And from the response I guess it doesn't.
There is a difference between marketing descriptions for "audiophile sensibilities" and the actual physical behavior of the cone when it is met with motor forces and air resistance. All cones will experience break-up as a property when they are in motion and working. The frequencies at which this happens will be unique to each driver and influenced by many criteria.
It is the Designers job to first build or choose the right Driver for the job at hand. Once that's done, the person designing the Cabinet and the system then has the job of combining the chosen Diver with the proper Cabinet size and alignment to execute flawlessly (hopefully) as a finished product.
(That latter point is why I commented on the CEA test above where the tester noted Vent Noise. While it may only be audible fully exposed and at max SPL, it is still a flaw in design to not account for adequate particle velocity inside the ports.)

I freely admit I may be confused now about what is in this thread vs the other 2 or 5 Sub threads working right now, but most Subwoofers will not have noticeable timbral differences. Our hearing just doesn't work like that, while higher up in the frequency ranges, one may well hear a difference between an aluminum or paper cone.

What becomes more important for you as a consumer is to learn enough about what is important in the final product, assuming you want to make this hobby a meaningful part of your lifestyle and maximize your experience. No judgement if not! :) But where you need to look if you want to see how a Subwoofer performs beyond just output would be the compression testing and distortion measurements. Also sometimes a waterfall graph used to show resonance can be helpful.
Those will tell you much more about the product than saying paper cones are warm and aluminum are accurate.
:)
Mind, not all of that information will be available all the time for every product, but learning how to interpret that data will aid you in making the best choice for your desired goals.
Here is a thread with a series of 3 articles about gaining a deeper understanding of measurments:

Cheers!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
More marketing mumbo-jumbo.
Details are not fresh in my mind. But I recall a number threads on the other forum recommending the paper come a lot. Something about distortion and output/extension capabilities. Not sure I’d worry about it myself. Just that apparently it’s a thing…
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Details are not fresh in my mind. But I recall a number threads on the other forum recommending the paper come a lot. Something about distortion and output/extension capabilities. Not sure I’d worry about it myself. Just that apparently it’s a thing…
Of course, and if you see it on the internet it must be true!, right? :p

End of the day, it's just things that have to be sorted through. You want a stiff/rigid and stable yet lightweight material.
Not that this video is super enlightening, but you can see it happen even as he pushes the output...
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Of course, and if you see it on the internet it must be true!, right? :p

End of the day, it's just things that have to be sorted through. You want a stiff/rigid and stable yet lightweight material.
Not that this video is super enlightening, but you can see it happen even as he pushes the output...
The cone material doesn't really matter in subwoofers. They won't ever move so fast that they will run into break up.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Of course, and if you see it on the internet it must be true!, right? :p

End of the day, it's just things that have to be sorted through. You want a stiff/rigid and stable yet lightweight material.
Not that this video is super enlightening, but you can see it happen even as he pushes the output...
We’ll yeah! Of course it’s true!!!
Like said, I can’t remember the details but I was surprised to see that a lot of people made claims and had measurements etc. maybe I’ll dig around. Once I’m done with my grill. It’s burger time! I’m also using a smoker for my ghost and reaper peppers. They make some damn good pico.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
The cone material doesn't really matter in subwoofers. They won't ever move so fast that they will run into break up.
Good point. I plead guilty to rabbit-holing while taking exception to the paper v aluminum aspect. *blushes
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Will have to figure out how to get 4 subwoofers working with Denon AVR-X4700H with its Audyssey XT32. Will daisy chain front and rear and split it into two. That should do it.
My advice is to skip the Denon and get something that has Dirac Bass Control. That cab independently equalize four subs. That will make a much bigger difference than the brand you choose. In fact, stop looking to spend so much on subs but rather look for something that has Dirac Bass Control. The Monolith HTP-1 has Dirac Bass Control with enough outputs to control up to five subs. Too bad it's not going to be in stock for a while. Arcam's AVR series has Dirac Bass Control. Here is something that should work great for that.

If your friend cares about sound quality, stay away from Audyssey and go for Dirac Live with Bass Control. The subwoofers won't matter as much, in fact, go for a cheaper sub to get a more expensive AVR. You might just look at getting four Monolith 15" THX Ultras. That will give you all the output you will ever want and terrific sound quality, and four of them with Dirac's Bass Control should be able to net you pretty much a perfect sound so long as you use some good sense in placement.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
ghost and reaper peppers. They make some damn good pico.
With peppers like that, no one can tell whether you're a good cook or not... they just know every time they eat your food it HURTS! :p

I used a ghost pepper sauce in a simmer I did for some Ribs... the flavor in those things is mesmerizing! Simmered the ribs to break down the collagen, pulled them out still on the bone, strained the "bouillon" and cooled the ribs in the liquid. After cooling, remove them, pat them dry, rub them and bring them back up in the oven while glazing them...
The best food is always a lot of work!
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
With peppers like that, no one can tell whether you're a good cook or not... they just know every time they eat your food it HURTS! :p

I used a ghost pepper sauce in a simmer I did for some Ribs... the flavor in those things is mesmerizing! Simmered the ribs to break down the collagen, pulled them out still on the bone, strained the "bouillon" and cooled the ribs in the liquid. After cooling, remove them, pat them dry, rub them and bring them back up in the oven while glazing them...
The best food is always a lot of work!
Haha! Right?!?!
I’m definitely not a gourmet chef such as yourself. But I can run a grill FO SHO!!!
So we actually grew these pepper plants here. I’ve made a bunch of Pico and a California Ghost mango sauce, and a pineapple reaper sauce. IMO, both turned out very good.
I use them a lot. But you definitely have to respect these guys. Also dehydrated some for “seasoned salt”. And that’s what I’ll do with the smoked ones.
Did you know that reapers are used to make military grade pepper spray? That’s fun! Lol
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Haha! Right?!?!
I’m definitely not a gourmet chef such as yourself. But I can run a grill FO SHO!!!
So we actually grew these pepper plants here. I’ve made a bunch of Pico and a California Ghost mango sauce, and a pineapple reaper sauce. IMO, both turned out very good.
I use them a lot. But you definitely have to respect these guys. Also dehydrated some for “seasoned salt”. And that’s what I’ll do with the smoked ones.
Did you know that reapers are used to make military grade pepper spray? That’s fun! Lol
Ya, those pepper extracts are insane. The companies that use them to make those extreme sauces basically require you to suit up before handling them... not quite full biohazard style, but a video tour of Dave's Insanity company showed them adding it to a vat of sauce and the guy put on a tyvec suit and full respirator...
Consider what happens when you go pee after cutting a jalepeno without washing first! :eek:
 
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