M

Midwesthonky

Audioholic General
There is absolutely no reason to have live rounds on a movie set.
That was my take when I read they had been practice shooting on the set with live ammo. There never should be live rounds present during the shoot.

GO-NAD stated he always checks to make sure a firearm is unloaded and I do too. Even if I just saw it being checked, I still check again. When I verify it's empty, I treat it as if it's loaded. You should see how goofy we look when out shooting sporting clays when we handle our guns and try to avoid having the muzzle point at anyone, even unloaded and the action open. If I was an actor on set and handed a gun, I would still do the same thing. And if I found live rounds, I shut the set down and people get fired. There really is no excuse for what happened.

From what I have read, the assistant director has a reputation for running a sloppy set. Add in workers that walked out over conditions that very morning and you have a set ripe for an accident. Unfortunately, one happened and a lady lost her life.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
His statement that he's fully cooperating with the investigation sounds like something a politician would say. Just cooperate- nothing more needs to be said about it.

I watched some interviews and it seems that the 'rules' aren't standardized, but they damn well better change that. Apparently, this gun has had some misfires in the past and if I were in charge of a movie, I wouldn't allow it on my set.

When I was looking at guns, never having owned one, the first thing I did when picking them up is point it downward and away from anyone (either directly or in a way that someone could be hit if a round ricocheted off of the floor) and made sure it was unloaded and safe. I had done a lot of reading and had fired weapons before but, A) I never did it much, B) I'm not a weapons expert but I always look for good info about shooting & firearm safety and C) I just don't want to have that kind of accident.

When I was working at a stereo store around 1981, one of the local cops came in after a shoplifting call at the Sears across the hall and I asked what he was carrying, because I knew he was a collector. He pulled it out and swept the head of one of the other salespeople and was immediately tuned up for it. I don't care if he had fired five million rounds and if it had been made safe, he should have been more careful.

On a lighter note, the officer had arrived at the station that morning & told to go on bicycle patrol in a nearby park because of an attack that had occurred but he wasn't really prepared for that WRT clothing. He came in wearing faded jeans and denim jacket with a polo shirt stretched over his gun belt, walkie-talkie, handcuffs, gun, etc. As soon as I saw him, I asked "Undercover, eh?".
Well, saying he's cooperating and blaming somebody else are two entirely different things. That said, stating that you are cooperating seems like a redundant statement.

The presence of live rounds on that movie set - especially considering that the movie included (simulated) gunfire - just seems so bizarre, as to beggar belief.
 
L

latapx

Audioholic Intern
That was my take when I read they had been practice shooting on the set with live ammo. There never should be live rounds present during the shoot.

GO-NAD stated he always checks to make sure a firearm is unloaded and I do too. Even if I just saw it being checked, I still check again. When I verify it's empty, I treat it as if it's loaded. You should see how goofy we look when out shooting sporting clays when we handle our guns and try to avoid having the muzzle point at anyone, even unloaded and the action open. If I was an actor on set and handed a gun, I would still do the same thing. And if I found live rounds, I shut the set down and people get fired. There really is no excuse for what happened.

From what I have read, the assistant director has a reputation for running a sloppy set. Add in workers that walked out over conditions that very morning and you have a set ripe for an accident. Unfortunately, one happened and a lady lost her life.
i've been following this in the news for a few days and IMHO is something that is TOTALLY avoidable. I've been educated on the process Hollywood uses (armorer) to ensure safety and heard interviews of other armorers that even when a weapon is declared "COLD" (that is is loaded with blanks) that the typical safety rules are to stay greater than 20' from the muzzle and that the gun is never pointed at anyone...camera angles are used to make it seem so. Live ammunition has no place on a set. You are just asking for trouble. How did a live round make it into the gun, that is the issue. Assistant director with prior safety violations? People walking out on set? Sounds like a bunch of pissed people with motive. The armorer KNOWS the difference between a blank and a live round. But from what I've seen on the news, the assistant director is the one who handed him the weapon and claimed it was "COLD".

Gonna be interesting to see how this one plays out...
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Senior Audioholic
Yeah, that is sad for sure poor woman. But with that said, shouldn't he be charged? Murders is murder right? Bet if you or I shot and killed someone we'd be charged with negligent homicide. Isn't ignorance no excuse of the law?
Murder requires intent.
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Senior Audioholic
Murder requires intent. Manslaughter still gives the same result however.
I don't think they'll get Baldwin on anything since from what I have read, he was handed a "cold" gun. Whomever gave that to him has a problem IMO.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Murder and manslaughter is intent to so no. Negligence in cutting corners with budget yeah for sure. Now if he pointed the gun at her, live or cold, then that's another case altogether.
Well, she was shot so he must have pointed it at her or enough at her.
What I heard is that film was not running and he was practicing drawing the gun. Really? Towards a human?
Why would he not check the gun himself no matter what was said being cold.
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Senior Audioholic
Well, she was shot so he must have pointed it at her or enough at her.
What I heard is that film was not running and he was practicing drawing the gun. Really? Towards a human?
Why would he not check the gun himself no matter what was said being cold.
He plays a gunslinger on TV. That doesn't mean he is one.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
i've been following this in the news for a few days and IMHO is something that is TOTALLY avoidable. I've been educated on the process Hollywood uses (armorer) to ensure safety and heard interviews of other armorers that even when a weapon is declared "COLD" (that is is loaded with blanks) that the typical safety rules are to stay greater than 20' from the muzzle and that the gun is never pointed at anyone...camera angles are used to make it seem so. Live ammunition has no place on a set. You are just asking for trouble. How did a live round make it into the gun, that is the issue. Assistant director with prior safety violations? People walking out on set? Sounds like a bunch of pissed people with motive. The armorer KNOWS the difference between a blank and a live round. But from what I've seen on the news, the assistant director is the one who handed him the weapon and claimed it was "COLD".

Gonna be interesting to see how this one plays out...
I think they should use three designations:
- Cold, meaning 'Unloaded and unable to fire a round',
- Warm, meaning 'Loaded with blanks or duds, unable to fire a round'
- Hot, meaning 'Loaded and ready to fire'

They could use a verbal 'Red, Yellow, Green' system, too- anyone who drives knows what those mean.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't think they'll get Baldwin on anything since from what I have read, he was handed a "cold" gun. Whomever gave that to him has a problem IMO.
As Exec Producer, he could be found negligent. That job requires a total control freak.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
PROPER firearms training and/or certification should be a requirement for anyone involved in a set where firearms are used, period. 3rd party, professional training that the studio is not involved in. I mean, rule #1 for all firearm training is: ALL guns should be considered loaded, no ifs, ands or buts. If you didn't check it yourself, then it is presumed deadly.

There are multiple levels of culpability here, though I am sure it will end up a settlement, possibly without a full lawsuit. Safety failed on an unacceptable number of levels. Studio will bear liability I am sure and I am sure they are insured for injuries and "accidents" on sets. They will want the details sealed. Reality is, live ammo isn't needed for filming no matter how "safe" the record is or who is in charge.
 
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D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Well, she was shot so he must have pointed it at her or enough at her.
What I heard is that film was not running and he was practicing drawing the gun. Really? Towards a human?
Why would he not check the gun himself no matter what was said being cold.
Yeah I think that's about it for his career.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
If he was driving a car and killed someone, nobody would question whether or not he was responsible. Once the firearm is in your hand, you are responsible for what happens.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
PROPER firearms training and/or certification should be a requirement for anyone involved in a set where firearms are used, period. 3rd party, professional training that the studio is not involved in. I mean, rule #1 for all firearm training is: ALL guns should be considered loaded, no ifs, ands or buts. If you didn't check it yourself, then it is presumed deadly.

There are multiple levels of culpability here, though I am sure it will end up a settlement, possibly without a full lawsuit. Safety failed on an unacceptable number of levels. Studio will bear liability I am sure and I am sure they are insured for injuries and "accidents" on sets. They will want the details sealed. Reality is, live ammo isn't needed for filming no matter how "safe" the record is or who is in charge.
Well, you know how people like a bit of target practice when they're hanging out, right?

Personally, I would have thought they'd be more intelligent about any 'fun-time' activities when they're on set- if they wanted to do some target shooting, they should have brought their own guns (owned or rented) and made damn sure that nothing used for live rounds was compatible with the guns used for filming and that absolutely none of them would be used in filming because they weren't right for the movie e.g., ANY modern era revolver or pistol or rifle. This is supposed to be a Western, right? There's not much they should be using other than a hog's leg or some kind of Derringer, IMO.

Once again, carelessness and lack of attention to details rear their ugly heads.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If he was driving a car and killed someone, nobody would question whether or not he was responsible. Once the firearm is in your hand, you are responsible for what happens.
I have seen a ridiculous number of posts online from people saying that "He's just an actor", "...he was acting...", etc as if they feel a need to make excuses for him- I have sometimes replied with "He was acting like a totally irresponsible gun handler". It's not bad enough that he shot her, he then fired again. Nobody who reacts in fear or surprise after discharge should handle weapons on a movie set.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Well, you know how people like a bit of target practice when they're hanging out, right?

Personally, I would have thought they'd be more intelligent about any 'fun-time' activities when they're on set- if they wanted to do some target shooting, they should have brought their own guns (owned or rented) and made damn sure that nothing used for live rounds was compatible with the guns used for filming and that absolutely none of them would be used in filming because they weren't right for the movie e.g., ANY modern era revolver or pistol or rifle. This is supposed to be a Western, right? There's not much they should be using other than a hog's leg or some kind of Derringer, IMO.

Once again, carelessness and lack of attention to details rear their ugly heads.
It's pretty dumb to have target practice on site. It's sorta like manufacturing blanks vs live ammo. You keep them in separate plants to avoid any mixing. Pretty dumb having the same gun used for both practice and on set. 500 rounds of live ammo on set is incredibly irresponsible.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
It's pretty dumb to have target practice on site. It's sorta like manufacturing blanks vs live ammo. You keep them in separate plants to avoid any mixing. Pretty dumb having the same gun used for both practice and on set. 500 rounds of live ammo on set is incredibly irresponsible.
No argument from me on this.
 

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