Home Theatre Speaker Recommendations before I Blunder PART 2

[markrohan]

Hi Everyone

Apologies for long post but in my original post I got asked for a lot of this info so putting as much of it in as possible to save on questions later.

This is a continuation in the trials and tribulations of my home theatre purchase in Dubai. Previous link https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/home-theatre-speaker-recommendations-before-i-waste-money.123033/ if anyone is interested but all required info is given here in any case. Up front just to warn everyone, I have very basic audio knowledge and I get lost pretty quickly when responses get technical.

I’m trying to finalise my decision in 48 hours as it impacts some of the renovation decisions.

Background:

We are moving to a new apartment which we are in the final stages of renovating and plan to turn the living space into a combined living / home theatre space. It’s not idle but got to live within the constraints provided.

Room floor plan + some photos attached. 7th Floor Apartment with neighbours on 2 sides + above and below. It’s concrete construction with floor to ceiling windows on 2.3 sides and open kitchen on the 0.7 side and the only full wall at the front.

Planning to place a 120” projector screen with UST Optoma XP2 Projector. No TV (curtains will be sufficiently closed during day time use). Based on some very valuable previous advice here I’m keeping part of my existing system and changing others.

Ceiling is concrete but will have a gypsum suspended portion running the length of the living room (2m x 4m - 6.6’ x 13’ and depth 10-15cm - 3.9-5.9”). The suspended part willd hold spotlights largely flush with the wood.

I’m planning to stay with my original home theatre installer given the other supplier people mentioned in the earlier advice turned out to have a terrible reputation for service and my dealings with them soon proved it. The supplier sells Monitor Audio but I’ve ruled out the bronze series based on earlier advice. Home demos are very rear here and there is zero return policy. I can potentially hear some of the equipment in store but not all of it which makes the decision a little more difficult especially since it will be combined with my existing kit.

Limitations:

Da Boss, while loving watching the cinema, doesn't enjoy seeing all the clutter in her living room. This makes it difficult to have 2 subs for eg + the rear speakers need to be mounted and not on stands. While the Atmos could be ceiling mounted in the suspended ceiling the width may prevent this being feasible. Finally we don’t have a lot of brands available here and reputation installers even less so.

Existing Equipment:

• Onkyo TX-NR626 Receiver - planning to replace
• KEF Towers Q700's - planning to keep
• KEF Centre Q200C - planning to keep but in two minds about it
• KEF Sub Q400b - planning to replace
• KEF Rear Q300c - planning to replace

Proposed Equipment:

My installer has recommended the following:

• Denon AVR-X4700H Receiver
• SVS PB-1000 Pro (I also have Real Acoustic Subs products available in Dubai)
• Klipsch RP-5025 Rear Surround
• Klipsch RP500SA Atmos

Help I’m After:

1. General comments on the proposed setup given the limitations of my living room + available equipment in Dubai.
2. Receiver - should I drop down to the AVR-X3700 or stay with the 4700?
3. Atmos - I’m using the RP500SA Klipsch at the front to get my Atmos affect. We actually listened to these and were blown away. It was in a home theatre setup room but the difference to other demo’s we had heard was remarkable and most important Da Boss was suitably impressed. Any downsides to doing it this way and other options (within my setup).
4. Is the PB-1000 Pro Sub large enough or should I consider the PB-2000? Also how much difference do 2 x PB1000’s make over the PB-2000 (ie is it going to make the 1 month exile to the sofa worth it).
5. In my view after the upgrade, the weakest link is the centre speaker. What are peoples thoughts on this and is it possible to take the Klipsch RP-600C with my 2 KEF Towers? Or alternatively theUltra Centre Speaker?
6. Anything I’ve missed?

Lastly I’ve told my installer I’m going to be raising his proposed setup here and he was fine getting the feedback (always a good sign); hence a couple of options being mentioned above.

Thanks in advance everyone. I really appreciate all of the feedback given here as it helps a lot.

 

[Eppie]

For the center you need to match to your mains. Our ears are most sensitive in the dialogue range and you want the timbre to match from L to C to R. When I got my Paradigms I had v5 mains and could only afford a used v2 center. It drove me crazy until I could get the matching v5 center. The Klipsch will likely sound quite different from your KEFs as it uses a horn tweeter. Amazon ships anywhere. Can you get a matching KEF center on-line? If not ask the installer if you can try both centers before committing.

Mixing the surrounds is ok as they are primarily for effects. If you were really into surround music you might want to match the speakers more closely but I think for your application the Klipsch will be fine. Having the Klipsch ATMOS on top of the KEFs instead of using ceiling speakers will have an effect on the sound but that is going to be hard to predict. Ceiling speakers will have more directed sound while those Klipsch rely on ceiling reflections so the experience is different. If you liked the demo, whose to argue?

For the rears you really only have two options. Floor stands or the valence. Sometimes the room forces you to compromise. My rears are in the ceiling above the couch because I have few options as well. Since the rears are not directly overhead of your couch but behind you a ways it's a reasonable compromise. Only issue I see with the 502S is that it is a dipole and relies on reflected sound. You will get reflections off the glass windows along the one side, but the other side is open, so the response could be uneven. The curtains over the windows will help. You could consider another pair of 500SA and mount them on the valence so that they are angled down towards your seating position. The 500SA is also half the height of the 502S which may appeal to "da boss".

The reason to use 2 subs is to even out the bass response over different seating positions so that one seat does not sound boomy. The PB2000 has deeper bass extension than the 1000 and I opted for a single SB2000Pro over the 1000Pro. Ported versions will have a little lower frequency response compared to sealed units. If space is a concern, many have the front wall as speaker - sub - console - sub - speaker so that it's all along one wall. The 2000 will be a little larger but you can try a PB2000Pro and if the bass seems very uneven you can look into adding another later.

 

[markrohan]

For the center you need to match to your mains. Our ears are most sensitive in the dialogue range and you want the timbre to match from L to C to R. When I got my Paradigms I had v5 mains and could only afford a used v2 center. It drove me crazy until I could get the matching v5 center. The Klipsch will likely sound quite different from your KEFs as it uses a horn tweeter. Amazon ships anywhere. Can you get a matching KEF center on-line? If not ask the installer if you can try both centers before committing.

Mixing the surrounds is ok as they are primarily for effects. If you were really into surround music you might want to match the speakers more closely but I think for your application the Klipsch will be fine. Having the Klipsch ATMOS on top of the KEFs instead of using ceiling speakers will have an effect on the sound but that is going to be hard to predict. Ceiling speakers will have more directed sound while those Klipsch rely on ceiling reflections so the experience is different. If you liked the demo, whose to argue?

For the rears you really only have two options. Floor stands or the valence. Sometimes the room forces you to compromise. My rears are in the ceiling above the couch because I have few options as well. Since the rears are not directly overhead of your couch but behind you a ways it's a reasonable compromise. Only issue I see with the 502S is that it is a dipole and relies on reflected sound. You will get reflections off the glass windows along the one side, but the other side is open, so the response could be uneven. The curtains over the windows will help. You could consider another pair of 500SA and mount them on the valence so that they are angled down towards your seating position. The 500SA is also half the height of the 502S which may appeal to "da boss".

The reason to use 2 subs is to even out the bass response over different seating positions so that one seat does not sound boomy. The PB2000 has deeper bass extension than the 1000 and I opted for a single SB2000Pro over the 1000Pro. Ported versions will have a little lower frequency response compared to sealed units. If space is a concern, many have the front wall as speaker - sub - console - sub - speaker so that it's all along one wall. The 2000 will be a little larger but you can try a PB2000Pro and if the bass seems very uneven you can look into adding another later.

I had initially considered going with ceiling mounted inside a false ceiling for both the rears and atmos but decided against it. I'm hoping I can have the rears mounted right at the back of the room from a custom built bracket from the concrete ceiling with the speakers angled slightly down. They will still be a little high as I can't have them blocking the view from the window.

For the sub someone else recommended the SVS 3000 Micro given the small footprint which I'm going to look into.

 

[Danzilla31]

I had initially considered going with ceiling mounted inside a false ceiling for both the rears and atmos but decided against it. I'm hoping I can have the rears mounted right at the back of the room from a custom built bracket from the concrete ceiling with the speakers angled slightly down. They will still be a little high as I can't have them blocking the view from the window.

For the sub someone else recommended the SVS 3000 Micro given the small footprint which I'm going to look into.

Never ever get that SVS micro for anything but a desktop setup it's not meant for a bigger open space like you have the 2000 pro would be my bet

 

[Pogre]

I love SVS, but verbiage they use to describe that Micro is pretty misleading, imo. Don't pay attention to the description and take a good look at the chart they post of the measurements.

You can see it really starts losing steam at 30 hz and there isn't much left at all by the time you hit 20 hz. Technically it doesn't even qualify as a subwoofer.

 

[markrohan]

I love SVS, but verbiage they use to describe that Micro is pretty misleading, imo. Don't pay attention to the description and take a good look at the chart they post of the measurements.

View attachment 49852

You can see it really starts losing steam at 30 hz and there isn't much left at all by the time you hit 20 hz. Technically it doesn't even qualify as a subwoofer.

Thanks Pogre. Didnt understand the graph but got the message. Micro is not an option.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks Pogre. Didnt understand the graph but got the message. Micro is not an option.

The horizontal axis is frequency (hz) and the vertical axis is volume (dB). The line starts to drop just above 30 hz and is down almost 20 dB by the time you hit 20 hz, which is what most consider minimum (20 hz) to be considered a true subwoofer.

 

[Eppie]

I had initially considered going with ceiling mounted inside a false ceiling for both the rears and atmos but decided against it. I'm hoping I can have the rears mounted right at the back of the room from a custom built bracket from the concrete ceiling with the speakers angled slightly down. They will still be a little high as I can't have them blocking the view from the window.

For the sub someone else recommended the SVS 3000 Micro given the small footprint which I'm going to look into.

I just thought that a second pair of 500SA would already be angled down if mounted flat against the wall or valance and they're smaller so less intrusive. The 502S will present a wider sound stage and fill the room more due to the di-pole design. Either will work. Just presenting some options.

Agree with the comments on the Micro. If you only have room for one sub and have the budget the 2000 is probably your best option.

 

[markrohan]

I just thought that a second pair of 500SA would already be angled down if mounted flat against the wall or valance and they're smaller so less intrusive. The 502S will present a wider sound stage and fill the room more due to the di-pole design. Either will work. Just presenting some options.

Agree with the comments on the Micro. If you only have room for one sub and have the budget the 2000 is probably your best option.

That’s a great idea. Wish I lived in a country where they would actually demo it for me so I can hear the difference. Sigh. The 502S are currently my biggest issue with the whole solution as they make the living room look like some hardly setup nightclub. No way to mount them that will pass Da Boss.