Afgan and now Taiwan, buckle up your seatbelts !

[Trell]

Citing that so-called news web page as a credible source seriously damages your credibility here.

What credibility is there left to damage? It's certainly not the first time he links to such sites and he still don't get it that that doesn't work here.

 

[Mikado463]

he still don't get it that that doesn't work here.

love your grammar , quite 'credible' !!

 

[Mikado463]

some more 'fake' news for Hetfield .........

Biden’s Afghanistan Exit Raises Questions About His Foreign-Policy Record

The president has defended his troop-withdrawal decision, saying that Washington had accomplished its mission and had nothing to gain by perpetuating its military deployments in the country.

www.wsj.com

 

[Hetfield]

some more 'fake' news for Hetfield .........

Biden’s Afghanistan Exit Raises Questions About His Foreign-Policy Record

The president has defended his troop-withdrawal decision, saying that Washington had accomplished its mission and had nothing to gain by perpetuating its military deployments in the country.

www.wsj.com

The WSJ owned my Robert Murdoch owned by Fox crap news.
Are you arguing this wouldn't be a mess if trump was president? Are you arguing we should stay there forever? What exactly do you want?
Now I will say my position is this is a shame, it was inevitable once we left. The Afghan government folded, the military quit within days. Many, many failures over 20 years. Either we failed them and never gave them the tools to succeed or they never really wanted it.
The tailban waited it out for 20 years. Think about that? If we stayed 40 years they probably would still have waited it out.
Now my other argument I have been making is so what we were there for 20 years. We have been in Germany and Japan for 70 years with thousands of troops. If 3,000 troops the country from complete collapse then why not stay. My other thought is we can't stay forever but we are staying forever in those other countries. What makes this any different? Now let's have a true discussion.

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[Mikado463]

No , not arguing that this would have been less of a mess with Trump. For the hundredth time, I'm glad Trump is gone. I am merely stating(again) that Joe has done a sh*t job in the final stage of this pull out IMO.

It's quite obvious they (leaders and military) have no will to fight and I agree with Joe, that's on them, first and foremost. Comparing our Germany and Japan military presence is apples to oranges, for it gives us strategic presence in a civilized environment that actually has a GDP of merit.

I still have my fingers crossed that we can get out with little further damage, both in American and Allied casualties and $$

 

[Hetfield]

Saying that it's apples and oranges to me is an insult to the people we were saving from hell.
I get that Germany and Japan are to keep Russia and China in check. Afghanistan is almost as important.
If we weren't going to see it through we should have never been in there and that's ultimately my position. We were bamboozled into that because of 9/11. The threat of 9/11 every week. Then there is a true fiasco of Iraq.

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[mtrycrafts]

...

Thousands Of Ships, Millions Of Troops: China Is Assembling a Huge Fleet For War With Taiwan

To have any chance of conquering Taiwan, China might need to transport as many as two million troops across the rough 100 miles of the Taiwan Strait and land them under fire at the island’s 14 potential invasion beaches or 10 major ports.

www.forbes.com

China has 1000s of ships?

 

[Mikado463]

Saying that it's apples and oranges to me is an insult to the people we were saving from hell.

other than certain civilian organizations I'm not so sure 'we' (US Gov't/military) were really trying to save them from hell, but whatever. Supposedly we trained and equipped a military of Afghan's 300, 000 strong to protect their country and they turned into a collective group of pussies.

I get that Germany and Japan are to keep Russia and China in check. Afghanistan is almost as important.

Other than a strategic location, how so ? An oversee of possible terrorist threats ? What does the country contribute to a civilized society that compares with Germany and Japan ?

If we weren't going to see it through we should have never been in there and that's ultimately my position.

See 'Het', we can agree on something !

We were bamboozled into that because of 9/11. The threat of 9/11 every week.

and the money grab of Cheney as Swerd pointed out. Although I do wonder with the pull out has another breeding ground begun to fester ??

 

[Mikado463]

China has 1000s of ships?

sure, look at all their 'junk' !

 

[ryanosaur]

sure, look at all their 'junk' !

I don't know whether to give you a smiley or a box for that one... so, here:

 

[Hetfield]

That's all I'm saying in a nutshell. We broke it and we ran when it was convenient. We left those people to god only knows what and we look terrible to the world.
If we weren't going to see it through to the very end then stay the heck out of it. It's all just a disaster. Iraq is another mess.

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[jinjuku]

right, this is all on Biden big guy? Want to rethink that? This was set in motion by trump and it's shame you are blinded and can't see that. His plan was to leave in May, Biden extended it. If you think this would have been any different since with orange clown you are fooling yourself.

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This was set into motion by Bush II. Continued by Obama, continued by Trump, and finally this grenade went off in Biden's lap.

 

[GO-NAD!]

The Afghan government sold their own people out. They ran like cowards, but yet their people are saying, don't leave us defenseless. Really?! How many more American lives are we suppose to sacrifice for a country that doesn't want to defend themselves. 20 years,! American taxpayers paying their salaries trillions of dollars wasted! How much the world is in debt to us with policing the world? Taliban is nothing more than a bunch of drug lords backward ass people living like they were 2,000-3000 years ago. I'm sure you guys remember that United States used to back them when they were fighting Russia right? Trump this Biden that, doesn't matter, who's been supplying the Taliban with weapons? Pakistan? China? Russia? Everybody's crying around the world, the US left them poor people to die and defenseless. Far as I'm concerned they all can kiss my ass bring all our people home, our soldiers have sacrificed enough blood.

It's the people who are most at risk of retribution at the hands of the Taliban who are asking for help and we owe it to them. Interpreters, civil servants, lawyers, judges (many of them women) - people we encouraged to take on leadership roles in the development of their country. If we don't help those people, who will ever trust us again? I agree that we had to leave, but there should have been a far greater effort made to evacuate those people before the pullout.

It didn't matter how long we stayed in Afghanistan, it was never going to turn out any differently. The Taliban could patiently wait us out - we had to leave someday, right? And, as long as Pakistan was playing both sides, paying lip service to the US, while secretly supporting the Taliban...well, the writing was on the wall.

So, yes, bring our people home - but bring the people who helped them, too.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Not arguing that, merely stating that Biden was handed what he was handed and has managed to 'bungle' the final segment. Is this to be his Saigon ? Time will tell .......

In theory Binden should be one of the most qualified to handle this mess given all his prior years in Gov't. I want out of that hell hole as much as anyone. I too fully understand the humanitarian concerns as I do with the thoughts of the thousands of troops / personal we have lost over there not to mention the PTSD survivors that are amongst us.

I agree that Biden has bungled the withdrawal - along with other western governments. While many countries agreed to evacuate the Afghans who helped us, the usual sclerotic bureaucracies were far slower than the Taliban's advance, putting us behind the 8-ball. This is why we see multitudes trying to clamber onto aircraft at Kabul airport. Immigration authorities acted like they had all the time in the world to process applications - time they did not have.

 

[highfigh]

right, this is all on Biden big guy? Want to rethink that? This was set in motion by trump and it's shame you are blinded and can't see that. His plan was to leave in May, Biden extended it. If you think this would have been any different since with orange clown you are fooling yourself.

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Obama said he wanted to leave, too (in his eight years as POTUS)- what's your point? It's not about what was to be done, it's about HOW and this wasn't the right way to do it. Biden pulled the plug- it's his baby, now. He also said Americans wouldn't be airlifted with helicopters when Afghanistan was compared with the exit from Saigon, as if THAT's what makes the two quagmires different.

Then, he said China wants to become the weathiest and most powerful country but it's not gonna happen on his watch. Right- he's one of the ones who didn't want to revoke China's most favored nation status and now, he says he's not gonna let them win. OK, Joe. The quote below is from the second link-

Biden says China wants to become the most wealthy, powerful country but it's 'not gonna happen on my watch'

Joe Biden’s Record on Free Trade and China

In the context of the 2020 presidential primary, the progressive wing will be battling with Biden as the most...

americarisingpac.org

"In 1997, Biden voted against an amendment that would have expressed the sense of the Senate that China’s most-favored-nation trade status should be revoked. The status provides the receiving nation the best possible trade terms that the originating country offers, thereby ensuring China was offered the same trade terms as other nations, mostly close allies, with the same status.

In 2000, Biden supported permanent normal trade relations with China, even voting against enforcement mechanisms to ensure China was upholding human rights, labor, and environmental standards as a condition of the new status."

 

[highfigh]

Well I will say this, we need to build semiconductor plants here, no matter how we need to do that. We have this bullshit where industries are being crippled because of shortages.

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Total agreement, here- we need to find ways to make them from materials that aren't so toxic, but it's hard to say if that's going to happen soon- so much of what we want & need comes form toxic substances and processes or decimates the landscape.....

 

[GO-NAD!]

At least somebody is concerned about Americans stuck in Kabul.

Sean Hannity plugs My Pillow to Americans with family stuck in Kabul

www.mediamatters.org

 

[Swerd]

I agree that Biden has bungled the withdrawal

The withdrawal was poorly planned and executed. But the naked truth is:
There is no elegant way to lose a war.

 

[Mikado463]

So it's true, all the 'cool kids' go to Dubai to party ..........

Ousted Afghan President Ashraf Ghani resurfaces in UAE after fleeing Kabul, Emirati government says

The Biden administration and NATO have placed the blame squarely on the Afghan national government for the stunning and swift Taliban takeover.

www.cnbc.com

 

[GO-NAD!]

So it's true, all the 'cool kids' go to Dubai to party ..........

Ousted Afghan President Ashraf Ghani resurfaces in UAE after fleeing Kabul, Emirati government says

The Biden administration and NATO have placed the blame squarely on the Afghan national government for the stunning and swift Taliban takeover.

www.cnbc.com

Not sure I can blame him...

This Is Not the Taliban 2.0

The group’s claims of having changed are probably more reassuring to those unfamiliar with its history.

www.theatlantic.com

When the Taliban first sacked Kabul 25 years ago, the group declared that it was not out for revenge, instead offering amnesty to anyone who had worked for the former government. “Taliban will not take revenge,” a Taliban commander said then. “We have no personal rancor.” At the time of that promise, the ousted president, Mohammad Najibullah, was unavailable for comment. The Taliban had castrated him and, according to some reports, stuffed his severed genitals in his mouth, and soon after, he was strung up from a lamppost.