Worth a try or simply silly?

[ddlooping]

Hey peeps

I have recently acquired a pair of Def Tech ST-L towers that have replaced Focal Domes for L/R duty in my 5.2.1 setup.
I'm currently still using a Dome as center speaker and was wondering if I could combine it with the two now retired to hopefully improve dispersion, clarity (less "distortion" at higher volume?) and maybe even better/lower bass response.

Focal Dome white-paper

The receiver used is a Denon AVR-H3600X.

Two possible connections...

I would use the Domes table stands/wall-mounts to fix them to some sort of plinth, where they could be placed and angled (both horizontally and vertically) in whichever configuration would work best.

3 possible alignments (spacing could be anything) (mockup views from the top)...

What say you?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I say no. It will just be a comb filtering mess. And who knows what else! Lol.
I would save the speaker cable, and probably reuse them in the garage, or bedroom etc.
Maybe you could use them elsewhere in the system? Like as a pair of rear height/tops? Or rear surrounds? No idea if you have the room, or AVR for that, but those two locations, or another room make more sense to me.

 

[Eppie]

If you're not familiar with the term comb filtering, when you place two or three speakers close together like that the combined sound creates an interference pattern that results in worse sound than using just one speaker. If you are going to use the Dome for a centre then one will yield a more even response. Those towers are a big step up so hopefully you plan to replace the centre speaker with something compatible. The receiver is 9.2 capable so the domes can be used for additional surround or height speakers if you can manage the wiring. Check the manual first before planning to change from 5.1 to 7.1. The manual should show supported 7.1 wiring options and that will dictate whether you can add additional surround or height speakers.

 

[ddlooping]

Thank you both for your replies.

I do know about comb-filtering (to a certain extent) after having read several papers and hundreds of posts on the subject.
It doesn't seem to be as clear cut as I thought it'd be, hence my interest in using these 3 speakers, be it at a certain distance/angle from each other to alleviate possible comb-filtering.

What I'm trying to ascertain is whether an optimum combination of both distance and angles between the speakers exists, that would bring a significant improvement to my center channel (dispersion, clarity, bass, power handling...).

 

[ddlooping]

P.S:
I have indeed thought about using the Domes as front heights to replace a pair of Boston "cubes" (can't remember the name of the model).
They would even be better used as rear heights but the missus doesn't want more wires running up the walls. :/

 

[highfigh]

Thank you both for your replies.

I do know about comb-filtering (to a certain extent) after having read several papers and hundreds of posts on the subject.
It doesn't seem to be as clear cut as I thought it'd be, hence my interest in using these 3 speakers, be it at a certain distance/angle from each other to alleviate possible comb-filtering.

What I'm trying to ascertain is whether an optimum combination of both distance and angles between the speakers exists, that would bring a significant improvement to my center channel (dispersion, clarity, power handling...).

There is no optimum combination if the speakers are all in different locations and after the position/placement for 'best' response is found, the response will change as soon as the listener or mic moves. The only way to minimize comb filtering is to use coaxial speakers that are correctly time-aligned but even then, the slope of their crossovers causes time alignment issues that can't be fixed since they're reproducing such a wide band of frequencies, which have different wavelengths.

 

[ddlooping]

Thanks highfigh

Would that still apply with wider spacing/angles?
(still view from the top)

 

[Eppie]

The manual states that the receiver can work with speakers from 4 to 16 ohms, so if you are worried about the receiver, neither of your wiring suggestions should harm the amp. You will need to rerun Audyssey though to re-calibrate the speakers every time you change the wiring or speaker positions. Using multiple speakers for a centre is not recommended, but nobody can stop you from playing around to see what it sounds like.

EDIT: Just checked the Dome specs. Nominal impedance is 8 ohms but they can dip down to 4 ohms (impedance is frequency dependent). Might want to try the higher impedance option to be safe.

 

[ddlooping]

Thanks again Eppie

The science behind it all escapes me (optimum distance between speakers, angles relative to each other...) so it's likely I will indeed have to experiment.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I can’t see any way to do what you want without the I’ll effects already covered.
But! IMO you’d be served well to replace the Boston’s with the domes and move them in a little bit and up a little bit. Like this…

Or better yet on the ceiling at about 75-80°
IMO you’d get better in room object imaging and overall performance. I can’t tell from the pic but they seem to be outside recommended angles. Also, fwiw, there are ways to make cables harder to see and while I’d really push for a pair of rear heights, I understand WAF can be very tricky. Better option is going in ceiling, but that’s a different can of worms.

 

[Eppie]

Thanks again Eppie

The science behind it all escapes me (optimum distance between speakers, angles relative to each other...) so it's likely I will indeed have to experiment.

Sometimes it's fun just to play around, but William's advice will yield better results in the end.

 

[ddlooping]

Thanks again William.

I'm afraid moving the front heights is not an option, however better the end result would be. :/
As far as ceiling speakers are concerned, it's a can of worms that will never be opened.

If I end-up giving up on this experiment the domes might indeed replace the Bostons.
That is, if I do not sell the 3 domes (2 with stands) to get a "better" center (the speaker would still need to be fairly unobtrusive/stealthy).
I would have thought the Mythos 10 or 9 would be a good match for my ST-Ls (I might be able to get a second-hand one) but I've read mixed reviews about them.
They would also not be on the wall, which I guess could also be detrimental.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks again William.

I'm afraid moving the front heights is not an option, however better the end result would be. :/
As far as ceiling speakers are concerned, it's a can of worms that will never be opened.

If I end-up giving up of this experiment the domes might indeed replace the Bostons.
That is, if I do not sell the 3 domes (2 with stands) to get a "better" center.

I might be able to get a second-hand Mythos 10 or 9 (the speaker would need to be fairly unobtrusive/stealthy) but I've read mixed reviews about them.

Understood! Seems like you’ve pushed the envelope as far as you dare. Something most of us are familiar with unfortunately…
Since you’re at the limit for heights, I would absolutely encourage you to get a better CC speaker. The domes are probably OK, but something with likely better clarity, and dynamic range(more, bigger drivers etc) is in order. Imo…

 

[ddlooping]

Since you’re at the limit for heights, I would absolutely encourage you to get a better CC speaker. The domes are probably OK, but something with likely better clarity, and dynamic range(more, bigger drivers etc) is in order. Imo…

I hear you.
Any recommendation, keeping in mind the speaker would still have to be pretty unobtrusive?

 

[Pogre]

I'd go with a phantom center until you can get an appropriate match for your main speakers and repurpose those little domes for effect speakers.

 

[Pogre]

I hear you.
Any recommendation, keeping in mind the speaker would still have to be pretty unobtrusive?

Do you want unobtrusive or good sound? The 2 don't often go together.

 

[ddlooping]

I'd go with a phantom center until you can get an appropriate match for your main speakers and repurpose those little domes for effect speakers.

Thanks Pogre, but I did try phantom speaker after having acquired the towers and the Dome sounds much better in my room.

 

[Pogre]

Well... I think, at a minimum you would want to got with one of the Procenters.

ProCenter 1000 - Center Channel

High-Definition 4" Center Channel Speaker

www.definitivetechnology.com

Center Channel Speakers | Definitive Technology™

Definitive Technology center channel speakers deliver immense clarity and focus to the vocal range to put you in the middle of the action. Shop today.

www.definitivetechnology.com

I've heard lots of great things about their new Demand series and I know DefTech timbre matches all of their speakers so the DS5 could be another consideration.

Center Channel Speakers | Definitive Technology™

Definitive Technology center channel speakers deliver immense clarity and focus to the vocal range to put you in the middle of the action. Shop today.

www.definitivetechnology.com

Then of course they also have their top of the line in the CS9080, it's pretty durned big tho...

CS9080 Center Channel Speaker | Definitive Technology™

The CS9080 center channel speaker features a 1" tweeter, two 5.25" midwoofers, an 8" subwoofer, & a 10" bass radiator for powerful performance.

www.definitivetechnology.com

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I hear you.
Any recommendation, keeping in mind the speaker would still have to be pretty unobtrusive?

Well that’s a tough one for ME to answer. Unobtrusive is definitely in the eye of the beholder. I’m a nuts and volts kinda guy and I will regularly take my speaker grilles off just to appreciate them. Hell, I even think a Top fuel dragster is a work of art!
As my friend @Pogre said, performance and elegance are sometimes mutually exclusive and a big factor will be budget. Also, depending on what YOU want to see vs what the boss wants will be between you two. I’m also not super family with your mains, so while I would recommend something similar in timbre, others may feel it’s not necessary. I guess that would depend a lot on your personal experience/expectations.

 

[ddlooping]

Thanks again Pogre, I will be definitely looking into the "non-Mythos" centers from Def Tech.