Definitive Technology Arms their New Descend Series Subs with Cool Tech

[Pogre]

Well I have read some reviews and it seems the 3000 Micro performs out of its league given the size and price. Regarding your assessment on deep bass or lack off it; I will like to know what is your definition of deep bass??...23hz to me is just 3hz shy of 20hz that's being for the longest the holly grail of deep bass, granted around 3db lower on output. As you can see a proper review with measurements from Audioholics will help me find out if this is the right subwoofer for me, obviously isn't for you based on your comments.

A -3 dB of 23 hz wouldn't be too bad. That's not the case with the Micro tho. From SVS' site...

That's as proper a measurement as there is. I don't know about you, but that looks like about 10 dB down by the time you get to 23 hz to me. 3 dB down at about 30 hz. So it's really not even close to a subwoofer. 30 hz may be good enough for a lot of music, but it's not what I consider deep bass for a subwoofer. Do you?

 

[Pogre]

Well I have read some reviews and it seems the 3000 Micro performs out of its league given the size and price.

Sure, but did you look at the measurement chart SVS posted on their website for the Micro that demonstrates and inspired my comments?

As you can see a proper review with measurements from Audioholics will help me find out if this is the right subwoofer for me, obviously isn't for you based on your comments.

 

[luis1090]

A -3 dB of 23 hz wouldn't be too bad. That's not the case with the Micro tho. From SVS' site...

View attachment 49141

That's as proper a measurement as there is. I don't know about you, but that looks like about 10 dB down by the time you get to 23 hz to me. 3 dB down at about 30 hz. So it's really not even close to a subwoofer. 30 hz may be good enough for a lot of music, but it's not what I consider deep bass for a subwoofer. Do you?

I agree with you 30hz isn't deep enough to be considered a subwoofer but they state there is a quasi anechoic response; whatever that means. After reviewing that measurement I now have more questions than answers. Like: where the measurement was taken? What boundaries were there, if any? How it will perform in a room with proper placement? What effect room boundaries will have in output and response? That's the reason I'm waiting on the Audioholics review.

 

[lovinthehd]

Quasi-anechoic is saying they're estimating in-room response I think. Even if it can get to an f3 of 23hz at what spl can it do that? I'd just think about more proper sized subs personally....these smaller subs have their place in small rooms perhaps or a desktop situation.

 

[Pogre]

I agree with you 30hz isn't deep enough to be considered a subwoofer but they state there is a quasi anechoic response; whatever that means. After reviewing that measurement I now have more questions than answers. Like: where the measurement was taken? What boundaries were there, if any? How it will perform in a room with proper placement? What effect room boundaries will have in output and response? That's the reason I'm waiting on the Audioholics review.

Quasi anechoic is relevant, so you're right to bring it up. I would add that it's only an 8" driver too. Granted good power behind it, but still an 8" driver. It's gonna be limited in output. We had someone who bought one pop into a thread to comment. Post #42. This link should take you right to it.

New SVS Micro 3000 - goes low, but how loud?

I did listen to the whole stream. I watched it live. I stated that I understood it as if they were saying subwoofers with PR were boomy. They even clowned a unnamed brand saying it would walk across the room. You should listen to the stream again. Anywho, I was only asking a question on passive...

forums.audioholics.com

Our very own subwoofer reviewer, Shady weighs in on it too. You might even find it helpful.

 

[shadyJ]

Quasi-anechoic is saying they're estimating in-room response I think. Even if it can get to an f3 of 23hz at what spl can it do that? I'd just think about more proper sized subs personally....these smaller subs have their place in small rooms perhaps or a desktop situation.

Quasi-anechoic means that is just a ground plane measurement. In an ideal ground plane setting, there is no acoustic reflection to contaminate the measurements, so it is anechoic without an anechoic chamber. They took the subwoofer outside in a wide open area and measured it with the mic on the ground.

 

[lovinthehd]

Quasi-anechoic means that is just a ground plane measurement. In an ideal ground plane setting, there is no acoustic reflection to contaminate the measurements, so it is anechoic without an anechoic chamber. They took the subwoofer outside in a wide open area and measured it with the mic on the ground.

Guess I was thinking more Klipsch style

 

[ryanosaur]

Quasi-anechoic means that is just a ground plane measurement. In an ideal ground plane setting, there is no acoustic reflection to contaminate the measurements, so it is anechoic without an anechoic chamber. They took the subwoofer outside in a wide open area and measured it with the mic on the ground.

Shady... I see you like to use a parking lot, IIRC... Ricci goes into a field...

Is there a right or wrong way to do ground plane measurements in terms of Surface? Flatness? what would be the minimum Open Area advised for accurate GP Measurements?

Many thanks!!!

 

[shadyJ]

Shady... I see you like to use a parking lot, IIRC... Ricci goes into a field...

Is there a right or wrong way to do ground plane measurements in terms of Surface? Flatness? what would be the minimum Open Area advised for accurate GP Measurements?

Many thanks!!!

All you need to do is eliminate the acoustic reflections, and both a parking lot or field can do that. I have tested in both conditions. You just need to place the mic on the ground so that no reflections can bounce back up into the mic. With the mic tip on the surface, everything it gets is a direct sound and not a reflection. The nature of the surface doesn't matter that much (at least for low frequencies).

The minimum openness of the area depends on the lowest frequency of interest since we need at least one wavelength from any reflective structure. A reflective structure is pretty much any large building or large solid surface. So let's say you wanted to test 10Hz, well, the wavelength of 10Hz is 113 feet, so you can't have anything large closer than 113 feet from either the mic or the sub.

One of the biggest problems in sub testing is simply finding an area where it can be done. So you need a wide open area, but one that also has access to an AC output, and also has a low noise floor, so it can't be done near a major roadway or loud industrial area. That is a tall order, especially when you live in an urban or suburban area. What can also complicate things is that these test tones are usually louder than noise ordinance will allow, so that means it can be tough to do in a field in a residential area like a soccer field or baseball field. I have a good testing site at the moment, but I have to drive 2 hours just to reach it since I live in a Chicago suburb (I hope you ingrates appreciate those subwoofer measurements because that commute is murder!)

 

[ryanosaur]

I hope you ingrates appreciate those subwoofer measurements because that commute is murder!)

 

[luis1090]

Quasi anechoic is relevant, so you're right to bring it up. I would add that it's only an 8" driver too. Granted good power behind it, but still an 8" driver. It's gonna be limited in output. We had someone who bought one pop into a thread to comment. Post #42. This link should take you right to it.

New SVS Micro 3000 - goes low, but how loud?

I did listen to the whole stream. I watched it live. I stated that I understood it as if they were saying subwoofers with PR were boomy. They even clowned a unnamed brand saying it would walk across the room. You should listen to the stream again. Anywho, I was only asking a question on passive...

forums.audioholics.com

Our very own subwoofer reviewer, Shady weighs in on it too. You might even find it helpful.

...keep in mind that is two 8" inch drivers firing on opposite sides of the box netting a bigger radiating surface area perhaps close to a 12" driver. I can't tell for sure if it's exactly a push-pull configuration but given the fact that the amplifier is 800 watts far from the old Sunfire 1500 and above on their subwoofers I expect this unit to perform cleaner and reliably. I used to own a Sunfire sub and the amp failed 3 times the last out of warranty got upset and sold the parts(box, amp, driver) on ebay. What I do remember is family and friends in awe when the little roughly 11" cube was shaking the foundation. I this little sub can recreate that with good reliability I'm all in, plan B would probably be a PB2000 pro...let's pray, lol

 

[shadyJ]

...keep in mind that is two 8" inch drivers firing on opposite sides of the box netting a bigger radiating surface area perhaps close to a 12" driver. I can't tell for sure if it's exactly a push-pull configuration but given the fact that the amplifier is 800 watts far from the old Sunfire 1500 and above on their subwoofers I expect this unit to perform cleaner and reliably. I used to own a Sunfire sub and the amp failed 3 times the last out of warranty got upset and sold the parts(box, amp, driver) on ebay. What I do remember is family and friends in awe when the little roughly 11" cube was shaking the foundation. I this little sub can recreate that with good reliability I'm all in, plan B would probably be a PB2000 pro...let's pray, lol

The Micro 3000 is not push-pull. In order for it to be push-pull, one of the drivers would have to mounted backwards and wired in opposite phase.

 

[luis1090]

The Micro 3000 is not push-pull. In order for it to be push-pull, one of the drivers would have to mounted backwards and wired in opposite phase.

Thank you for let me know. I do the drive 2hrs ain't that bad, well as long as you're in Florida...lol
Whatever it takes to have the review!

 

[Pogre]

The Micro 3000 is not push-pull. In order for it to be push-pull, one of the drivers would have to mounted backwards and wired in opposite phase.

What say you on the accuracy of SVS' quasi anechoic chart I posted? You think room gain will make up that -10 dB drop at 23 hz? How about output in a medium or large room? I know you have yet to review it, but I think there's enough info from SVS to venture a decent guess?

It looks to me like the Micro is a lifestyle product for folks who care a lot more about aesthetics than sound. Okay for most music in small rooms or maybe a desktop setup to add some bass to small speakers but it's not gonna offer much below 30 hz with any authority. The poster I linked earlier said his SB1000 blew the Micro away.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

What say you on the accuracy of SVS' quasi anechoic chart I posted? You think room gain will make up that -10 dB drop at 23 hz? How about output in a medium or large room? I know you have yet to review it, but I think there's enough info from SVS to venture a decent guess?

It looks to me like the Micro is a lifestyle product for folks who care a lot more about aesthetics than sound. Okay for most music in small rooms or maybe a desktop setup to add some bass to small speakers but it's not gonna offer much below 30 hz with any authority. The poster I linked earlier said his SB1000 blew the Micro away.

If you peruse the “other big forum” there’s a bunch of talk about the micro. And then more side roads comparing it to the kef micro. Lots of interesting perspectives, but mostly we all agree. Meh, at best.

To me, the sb1000 is a better choice, and the micro isn’t option except under my desk where my office and bedroom 5.1 system is.

 

[NINaudio]

I live in a Chicago suburb (I hope you ingrates appreciate those subwoofer measurements because that commute is murder!)

I don't think I realized you lived in the same area as me. I'd be interested in tagging along next time you're doing a test. Or if you want to test a UM-18....

 

[shadyJ]

What say you on the accuracy of SVS' quasi anechoic chart I posted? You think room gain will make up that -10 dB drop at 23 hz? How about output in a medium or large room? I know you have yet to review it, but I think there's enough info from SVS to venture a decent guess?

It looks to me like the Micro is a lifestyle product for folks who care a lot more about aesthetics than sound. Okay for most music in small rooms or maybe a desktop setup to add some bass to small speakers but it's not gonna offer much below 30 hz with any authority. The poster I linked earlier said his SB1000 blew the Micro away.

SVS's quasi anechoic responses are real responses. Room gain will certainly give it some added extension, but it's hard to say how much since that has more to do with each individual room. I wouldn't expect heavy-duty 20Hz bass regardless. SVS should probably be tempering people's expectations with these things. There are no plans for me to review the Micro. Gene has one and plans to be giving it some attention.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't think I realized you lived in the same area as me. I'd be interested in tagging along next time you're doing a test. Or if you want to test a UM-18....

You know that puzzle box in the "Hellraiser" movies that people opened and then demons came out and took them to hell where they were tortured for all eternity? That is kind of what testing subwoofers is like... You might be sorry you asked...

 

[luis1090]

Definitive Thechnology can't be happy with this forum. They announced the new Descend subs and SVS steals all the attention. I guess they're paying the price for overstating their specs. This series better have amazing performance; too many though players on the subwoofer arena, Definitive needs a "KO punch" or one out of the park! Are they ready to deliver?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Definitive Thechnology can't be happy with this forum. They announced the new Descend subs and SVS steals all the attention. I guess they're paying the price for overstating their specs. This series better have amazing performance; too many though players on the subwoofer arena, Definitive needs a "KO punch" or one out of the park! Are they ready to deliver?

Haha. I thought that too. BUT!!! They earned all the criticism on their own. Unfortunately for every one of us that know better, there’s prob a hundred that love their cute lil def tech subs, and think they’re awesome.
I hope for their sale, these new ones delivered.
I will obey Gene however and wait, before I judge. Nah…