a Democrat Texan wants more gun control...........

[corneileous]

I don't have a solution, but people talking about it and doing nothing doesn't seem to be working.

What do you think the solution is?

I’ve already outlined what I think the solution is right here in this post.


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[Trell]

I want my nuke! Why can't I have a nuke when the bad guys that sends love letters to Trump have them? Who decided that a nuke is not a gun? Nukes are not a problem only bad people!

 

[corneileous]

Gun violence- violence, using a gun. Easy to understand- why is this a problem? Of course, the guns don't perform the act, but it isn't a bad description.

Because it’s a violence problem, period. The term “gun” violence from the gun haters puts too much emphasis on the gun being the problem.

Stop the bleeding hearts? Good luck with that- the legal system needs to allow for a good defense, but there are too many being let out with a small bond/bail payment, on their own recognizance, etc. The DAs don't always have much to work with WRT evidence, because of a lack of witnesses or people who don't want to be seen as snitches. Most shootings are unresolved.

Exactly.

People are shooting back, but sometimes, they end up dead, too. One who did was the intended victim of a carjacking by a pinhead who had tried the same only a few minutes about a mile away, but he couldn't get that victim's car to start,at about 7:30AM. The first victim was executed after filling his tank- he was 22, married, described as a great person. The second is an undercover police officer who was just starting his shift. The shooter approached, pulled his gun and they exchanged fire- the officer is still in the hospital, the shooter killed himself. The reason(s) for this haven't been released, but neighbors said the guy was very agitated that morning and punched the fire alarm in his apartment- someone said he had changed his locks the day before.

I’m not saying it’s the end all be all but sharp situational awareness skills are important.

As far as reciprocity, plenty of states allow carry if they register in some states, others aren't recognized by as many. Looks like Michigan's permit is recognized by more than any other, Vermont's is recognized by the least I saw, but I didn't click on all states. As always, it's up to the carrier to know the map and store their weapon(s) accordingly. There's no excuse for being caught carrying illegally- all someone needs to do is print the map showing reciprocity for their permit.

Plenty do but the most important ones with the most violence, don’t.

And you’re right, there is no excuse for not knowing the laws and all the different states but that’s not the point.


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[Trell]

See, that right there is typical liberal mentality. I didn’t say start arming kids. Armed teachers that want to do it with extensive training, yes. Even off duty or retired police officers make great security.

But hey, in a mall, grocery store, church or other big gathering of people, sure; the more law abiding citizens carrying, the better. We all know or should know by now the criminals of all walks are going to be Karian and they know the pipe got the upper hand so we’re not even the score? Oh but wait, we’re too busy worrying about the people who actually follow the laws rather than the people who spend all their life breaking the laws.


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Your edit of your post after I replied to it gives me another opportunity.

In US I probably would think of me as a "liberal" that thinks that sensible guns control is highly warranted, like, say, for a driving license which I wrote in a post that you conveniently ignored. Unlike you, I guess, I have served in the armed forces and so have several other members of this forum that also thinks that sensible gun controls should be implemented. Then we have the even larger group that is hunting animals and thinks similarly. Not all, of course, have the same political views.

 

[corneileous]

Your edit of your post after I replied to it gives me another opportunity.

In US I probably would think of me as a "liberal" that thinks that sensible guns control is highly warranted, like, say, for a driving license which I wrote in a post that you conveniently ignored. Unlike you, I guess, I have served in the armed forces and so have several other members of this forum that also thinks that sensible gun controls should be implemented. Then we have the even larger group that is hunting animals and thinks similarly. Not all, of course.

I didn’t conveniently ignore it I just never responded to it because I was too busy responding elsewhere but OK, tell me what gun laws need to be imposed that’s going to keep this stuff from happening? If the current gun laws don’t do anything how is even more going to make a difference without taking away peoples rights that still won’t do nothing to keep the guns out of the wrong hands?

And sorry bud but driving a car and the right to own and bear arms are two different things. One is a constitutional right and the other one is a privilege. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out which one is which.


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[Trell]

I didn’t conveniently ignore it I just never responded to it because I was too busy responding elsewhere but OK, tell me what gun laws need to be imposed that’s going to keep this stuff from happening? If the current gun laws don’t do anything how is even more going to make a difference without taking away peoples rights that still won’t do nothing to keep the guns out of the wrong hands?

And sorry bud but driving a car and the right to own and bear arms are two different things. One is a constitutional right and the other one is a privilege. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out which one is which.


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Respectfully, you are missing the point(s) that several of us has written in our replies to you. @adk highlander was right in his earlier post, sad to say.

 

[corneileous]

Respectfully, you are missing the point(s) that several of us has written in our replies to you. @adk highlander was right in his earlier post, sad to say.

Those aren’t points but I don’t expect you people to comprehend that because you only see things from a certain perspective and have this ignorant perception that gun laws work when they clearly don’t. The most strictest states prove that every single day and most of you guys can’t even come up with logical responses to prove me wrong. You just shout out more gun control and say we don’t need guns which is just clearly not true. The lack of guns in the right hands and the criminalization of the good people is what lessens their desire to carry with just makes it easier for the criminal to commit their crime.


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[adk highlander]

I will turn this to you. Show me anywhere you can prove the people carrying guns shows any negative deterrents to criminals in our society? That is just a fallacy created to defend your idea that you are some lone ranger that is going to save the day.

Criminals are just that. It is a false equivalency to say you should be able to have certain guns because they have obtained them illegally. This again is not a second ammendment issue. The right to keep and bear arms is not the same as being able to obtain weapons with no oversight.

 

[corneileous]

I will turn this to you. Show me anywhere you can prove the people carrying guns shows any negative deterrents to criminals in our society? That is just a fallacy created to defend your idea that you are some lone ranger that is going to save the day.

Criminals are just that. It is a false equivalency to say you should be able to have certain guns because they have obtained them illegally. This again is not a second ammendment issue. The right to keep and bear arms is not the same as being able to obtain weapons with no oversight.

You’re probably gonna laugh but it’s actually kind of hard to find that information because the news media doesn’t report whenever a good guy with a gun stops a shooter in his tracks because they’re too busy reporting on instances where a shooter is successfully able to go kill a whole bunch of people. They don’t report too much about when an old lady shoots an intruder that breaks into her house; instead, they waste more time reporting on the ones that don’t have a weapon to defend themselves so what does that tell you? Or well should I say, what should… that tell you?

But no, the vast majority of us are not those ones who wish to be the lone Ranger and come in and save the day. Sadly but true, like I mentioned earlier in previous posts, not hardly anybody wants to be your perceived “Lone Ranger” because of the consequences and repercussions that might come to them if somebody did actually happen to be at the right place at the right time who, with a couple well-placed shots, take out somebody who’s killing everybody which is why most people, myself included, only carry a gun to protect me and my family. I don’t carry it for everybody else because if you’re interested in protecting yourself then it’s your duty to protect yourself.

But OK, tell me why I should have to go through all these hoops and be limited on what I can have when criminals clearly bypass the law and carry whatever the hell they want to?

And I get it, I believe in training; I don’t believe in forced training, but I believe in training which something else you’re probably not gonna agree with, there’s a lot of people who are serious about carrying for protection who actually do seek training that is far better than any state-mandated training they make you take when you apply to get your license. Are there people who carry without hardly any training at all? Yes, there sure are but seriously, what are you gonna do to make sure that happens? We cannot control what everybody does and the stupid people out there are just gonna be stupid no matter what you do or say. It’s unfortunate, but the stupid people will weed themselves out. It’s too bad that they may take a few innocent lives with them, but seriously, there’s nothing you can do about that but at the same time, don’t push for well limiting rights to people who have more sense than that and don’t do stupid things. I mean after all, that is what our Second Amendment is about, and it is a constitutional right.


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[adk highlander]

I appreciate the civil discussion even though I know it will make no difference in our opinions.

Here is one last thing to think about. It is not the media. They report all of this. Do you not think Fox and OAN would not jump on every single story that a person carrying a gun stopped a crime?

The other thing to consider is there are no statistics either way. The NRA has successfully lobbied and been able to make it impossible to collect information on gun violence research. https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/599773911/how-the-nra-worked-to-stifle-gun-violence-research

I don't want to take away a persons handgun at home for protection or hunting rifles. You need to go through those hoops because we live in a society together. I don't know you and I want my family protected in a different way than you. You should be just as concerned if I wanted to buy a weapon as I am anyone else.

 

[Alex2507]

A 6 and 7 year old shouldn't have to tell me how well they did hiding and being quiet.

We had to do duck and cover! Freakin' seventies.

 

[Trell]

We had to do duck and cover! Freakin' seventies.

Nothing less than the threat of a nuclear blast could make this happen, certainly not some pimpled dude two year older than us!

In a more serious tone: Living near a prime target for a nuclear bomb, during the Cold War, was not that funny as a child, to be honest.

 

[adk highlander]

Nothing less than the threat of a nuclear blast could make this happen, certainly not some pimpled dude two year older than us!

In a more serious tone: Living near a prime target for a nuclear bomb was not that funny as a child, to be honest.

Agreed. I grew up new a major Air Force base that would be used for refueling during a deployment and there were missile silo's hidden around. Now they all have been sold to people trying to make houses out of them.

 

[corneileous]

I appreciate the civil discussion even though I know it will make no difference in our opinions.

Well, that’s just it, I’ve presented some pretty reasonable things but it just seems like every time I get into one of these gun control debates, the people who are for gun control just never can seem to come up with any logical solution other than just simply adding more laws and more restrictions that do absolutely nothing to prevent the very thing they’re trying to stop. All they do is just end up limiting the wrong person which all leads to the million dollar phrase which is if you outlaw guns, and the only people who’ll have guns are outlaws.

Here is one last thing to think about. It is not the media. They report all of this. Do you not think Fox and OAN would not jump on every single story that a person carrying a gun stopped a crime?

I do believe it is the media because what more is going to get people riled up? Nobody cares whenever a good guy with a gun diffuses a bad guy with a gun. Nobody cares if a homeowner is able to protect himself and his property from an intruder because nobody cares and to top it all off it goes against the liberal agenda because they don’t want you to know that. But there are reasonable news sources out there that will report on that stuff that’s just so so inconveniently hard to find. You have to go to the right places and most certainly if you go to the ones that are any bit liberal minded, you won’t find information like that but still, just because a lot of new sources don’t comment on it, you can’t tell me it doesn’t happen when good guys with guns do intervene.

The other thing to consider is there are no statistics either way. The NRA has successfully lobbied and been able to make it impossible to collect information on gun violence research. https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/599773911/how-the-nra-worked-to-stifle-gun-violence-research

Even though I’m not a supporter of the NRA, I still find this hard to believe. Anybody in their right mind knows that we have a problem with violent people of all walks because we hear about it every day on the news so why would the NRA try to block research so that when really all they’re trying to do is keep it so that they don’t keep pushing all these extra unnecessary gun laws that further restrict the wrong people? That’s what it all pretty much boils down to because I just can’t stress it enough; go ahead and pass all the damn laws you want and the criminal is just going to sidestep every single one of them. You can’t keep illegal guns from coming into this country no matter what and the banning of private guns sales, you’re never gonna stop gang members or practically anybody from selling guns illegally to one another.

I don’t want to take away a persons handgun at home for protection or hunting rifles.

That’s just it; I’m not necessarily worried about you, I’m worried about all these crooked Democrat liberal politicians that you people keep voting for who want more government control and who are striving to take away our rights.

The crooked politicians I can understand because I know what they’re up to but the citizens who follow them, are the ones that I just do not understand why they can’t understand this stuff. It’s not rocket science and it certainly is not brain surgery. You can tell them until you’re blue in the face things like, background checks are only going to do any good when some dumb ass criminal decides he’s going to go down to bass pro and buy him a handgun only to find out his record, when they run his information is going to put a stop to that. But look man, I feel the same way that you do on all this stuff, I just don’t believe pushing for more and more and more gun laws and restrictions is necessarily the way to do it.

You need to go through those hoops because we live in a society together. I don’t know you and I want my family protected in a different way than you.

I do? So basically I have to prove that I’m not ever going to be the problem or person that you fear? When it comes to a constitutional right, I shouldn’t have to prove a damn thing to anybody. And besides… Just like with that guy who shot up that Las Vegas Jason Aldean concert; he bought his guns legally because there was nothing on his record that prevented him from buying those guns legally and then after the fact is when he decided……. or should I say already decided at that point that he was going to become a criminal. Things like that, there’s just no way that you can screen people and nine times out of 10 when you do try to screen people, you end up preventing the wrong people before they’ve even done anything wrong and probably never will do anything wrong.

You should be just as concerned if I wanted to buy a weapon as I am anyone else.

Matter of fact I am concerned which is why I carry a pistol every day. If I’m confronted with one of these people then it’s gonna be either me or him and I’m gonna do my damnedest to make sure it ain’t me. I’m not gonna rely on some stupid gun law to keep me safe. I’m not gonna sit around hunkering down in the closet waiting for the cops to get there to protect me.


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[adk highlander]

Don't give yourself so much credit that you have presented anything reasonable. The 2nd ammendment didn't give you a concealed carry permit. That was the stupidity of our political system. Keep your gun at home where it belongs. Our society has created a problem with too many guns that are too easy to obtain both legally and illegally. If you want training go in the military or become a police officer and show you can do good. All that "training" is for posers that I referenced earlier.

 

[Trell]

Don't give yourself so much credit that you have presented anything reasonable. The 2nd ammendment didn't give you a concealed carry permit. That was the stupidity of our political system. Keep your gun at home where it belongs. Our society has created a problem with too many guns that are too easy to obtain both legally and illegally. If you want training go in the military or become a police officer and show you can do good. All that "training" is for posers that I referenced earlier.

To get training he could attend a NRA weapons training course, if they have restarted those again. A local hunters club could work as well, depending, of course. A very important part is learning safe handling and storage of weapons and ammunition as well as applicable laws and regulations. First-aid training in case of gunshot injury would be marvellous.

 

[adk highlander]

And sorry bud but driving a car and the right to own and bear arms are two different things. One is a constitutional right and the other one is a privilege. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out which one is which.


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Oh and here is a better example. Voting is also a constitutional right. Why is ok to put all these new restrictions in place where there has been no proven fraud. While any addition to gun control (in a country with massive gun violence) a losing proposition?

 

[adk highlander]

To get training he could attend a NRA weapons training course, if they have restarted those again. A local hunters club could work as well, depending, of course. A very important part is learning safe handling and storage of weapons and ammunition as well as applicable laws and regulations. First-aid training in case of gunshot injury would be marvellous.

He was not referring to the normal hunter safety courses. He was referring to tactical training.

 

[corneileous]

Don't give yourself so much credit that you have presented anything reasonable.

Well then I would ask that you go back up there to my posts and give me your answer to that stuff before you just blatantly say I haven’t presented anything reasonable without backing that claim up.

One more time, I’ll give you it again; tell me how a background check is going to do any good when number one, if there’s nothing there to find to keep somebody from becoming a criminal and if a person does have a background, tell me how that background check is going to do any good if that person doesn’t buy a gun legally? Give me a proper response to that before you go blabbering I haven’t presented anything reasonable.

The 2nd ammendment didn’t give you a concealed carry permit.

You’re right, it didn’t because I think shall not be infringed is pretty damn clear.

That was the stupidity of our political system.

Once again, you’re right. I shouldn’t have to pay for my rights and I’m damn glad there’s some states out there finally starting to recognize that by not charging people to do that. Although on a sidenote, if I still want to be able to travel outside of my great state of Oklahoma who doesn’t require I have a paid for permission slip to exercise my Second Amendment rights, I still have to pay for a permit just so that I can legally be recognized in other states… Well, the ones that we actually have reciprocity with.

Keep your gun at home where it belongs. Our society has created a problem with too many guns that are too easy to obtain both legally and illegally.

And again, posting ignorance like this and you have the audacity to say that I haven’t posted anything reasonable? Seriously? You’re really telling me to leave my gun at home? Uh, no, because I don’t wish to become a victim- and it’s my right to do so but that last part up there; society hasn’t done anything to make it too easy to get them illegally, that’s just what it is but anybody can steal anything so explain to me how it’s too easy to obtain one legally?

If you want training go in the military or become a police officer and show you can do good. All that “training” is for posers that I referenced earlier.

That’s a good start but number one, even police officers make mistakes and two, I shouldn’t have to become a police officer or a military person just to exercise my rights. But exactly what training are you talking about that’s just nothing for posers? There’s actually some really good training classes out there that will teach you quite a bit but I guess I can understand how you wouldn’t believe that because those are probably training courses that you will probably never ever take but yet here you are judging them as harshly as you can when you don’t know a thing about them.


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[Trell]

He was not referring to the normal hunter safety courses. He was referring to tactical training.

Ah, my bad. Not shooting your team members by accident would be applicable, though.