Pre amp setup ?

[Dreamweaverx5000]

I primarily listen to music. My current AVR allows me to connect HDMI connections for my Apple TV, game consoles, etc.
when I power on, it turns on the TV, the Apple TV, and the receiver and selects the correct input automatically. I like this very much. One button and ready to go.
I want a stereo power amp. All the ones I like do not have HDMI and the “power on” controls that make life easy.
So I guess I’ll have to have a preamp/AV to do that.
My question is... if I buy a Anthem 540 AVR as a controller. Which has its own amps build in, but also has pre outs for 1700$ why would I buy the AV pre amp ONLY for 3400$ from Anthem.
I am going to add a stereo Power amp anyway. Seems like I don’t need the AVR for the build in AMPs but the AV ONLY unit is twice the price.
What am I getting for that price that the 540 AVR cannot do? I don’t want 11 channels. I don’t even want the 7 channels of the 540 AVR. I will run at most a 3.2 setup (currently 2.2 setup). But I still wan the control and HDMI options. (As opposed to a integrated amp option with no Video input management at all, which someone might as why not just get a intergrated amp).
my Apple TV is my Video and Music streamer which only connects using HDMI. I cannot connect it to an integrated amp without passing through another component. (Unless it’s an AVR)

or suggest another option.
So Apple TV (HDMI), premium stereo music, power on controls, easy source swapping with one controller.

Second main question. Can this Anthem 540 MRX AVR at 1700$ do the same with its pre outs as the Anthem AVM 70 (preamp only) 3400$

 

[Mikado463]

is this a 'music only' set up ? I understand a 2.2 set up for stereo but what is a 3.2 ? What speakers will you be using ? What 2 channel amp are you planning on using ?

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

I my not do the 3.2. But I am considering a center channel for TV. If I get a AVR I’ll se the built in amp for center and the power amp for right/left and music only listening

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

I’ll use the built In am for center (correction)

 

[PENG]

I primarily listen to music. My current AVR allows me to connect HDMI connections for my Apple TV, game consoles, etc.
when I power on, it turns on the TV, the Apple TV, and the receiver and selects the correct input automatically. I like this very much. One button and ready to go.
I want a stereo power amp. All the ones I like do not have HDMI and the “power on” controls that make life easy.
So I guess I’ll have to have a preamp/AV to do that.

Is the reason for wanting another AVR or AVC because you want to use an external amp and you current AVR does not have the pre-outs? Or you actually want a standalone stereo integrated amp but you also want one with HDMI/control? Once clarified, then perhaps we can suggest alternatives.

My question is... if I buy a Anthem 540 AVR as a controller. Which has its own amps build in, but also has pre outs for 1700$ why would I buy the AV pre amp ONLY for 3400$ from Anthem.
I am going to add a stereo Power amp anyway. Seems like I don’t need the AVR for the build in AMPs but the AV ONLY unit is twice the price.

That is very true, unfortunately. It is for the same reason I "upgraded" from my >$3,000 AVP to a $1,200 AVR-X4400H and have been very happy with the decision. My AVP has been demoted to one of my two channel music only system, using less than 10% of its features and functionality.

What am I getting for that price that the 540 AVR cannot do? I don’t want 11 channels. I don’t even want the 7 channels of the 540 AVR. I will run at most a 3.2 setup (currently 2.2 setup). But I still wan the control and HDMI options. (As opposed to a integrated amp option with no Video input management at all, which someone might as why not just get a intergrated amp).
my Apple TV is my Video and Music streamer which only connects using HDMI. I cannot connect it to an integrated amp without passing through another component. (Unless it’s an AVR)

By the sound of it, you are right again, you can pay double the price of the 540, but you won't get anything that the 540 AVR cannot do. You do get the bragging right to say "I use "separates" blablablan, when the sad reality is that the MRX-1140 is anything but "separates", when it packs so many things in it, just because it skipped the power amp section does not make it a truly "separate" component even just by the popular definition.

or suggest another option.
So Apple TV (HDMI), premium stereo music, power on controls, easy source swapping with one controller.

Take a look of the Marantz NR series that is an affordable option. There are likely more options in the higher price bracket.

Second main question. Can this Anthem 540 MRX AVR at 1700$ do the same with its pre outs as the Anthem AVM 70 (preamp only) 3400$

For what you said you needed, absolutely the MRX500 can do the same, but then why pay premium price for the MRX540 when you can get a Denon AVR-X3700H for much less and whether you care or not, you get superior performance based on measurements. That's on paper obviously may or may not translate into audible difference, depending on how you use it and what you use it with/for.

Take a look of the ranking chart below, the Anthem AVP rank below 20 at the moment, based on distortions + noise. Just because you pay more, you may not get more..

Anthem AVM60 Review (AV Processor) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

The main confusion about pre amps is the price. It seems like taking an AVR(that’s has re outs), removing From it (amps), and then doubling the price.
so an AVR can be used the same as the AV only, from the same company, at half the price? (If it has pre outs, many AVR don’t) with the same results as pre amp. Nothing is gained? Same pre outs, same software, same ARC Genisis Room correction?

PS, im not disregarding the Denon suggestion. I’m looking at that, might be a better deal. But Just to keep the question clear in my head, I’m still talking about the Anthem AV 3400$ vs the Anthem AVR 1700$.

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

Also are the reviews of pre amps based on sales? Not as many people buy Anthem so there are less reviews?

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

Does the Denon 3700 not have the room correction? I have bad acoustics. Would Anthem ARC, Audyssey, or DIRAC help ? I’m a looking that these AVRs with these correction options for no reason ?

 

[PENG]

The main confusion about pre amps is the price. It seems like taking an AVR(that’s has re outs), removing From it (amps), and then doubling the price.

so an AVR can be used the same as the AV only, from the same company, at half the price? (If it has pre outs, many AVR don’t) with the same results as pre amp. Nothing is gained? Same pre outs, same software, same ARC Genisis Room correction?

The reasons AVPs can sell for the same or more could be any or all of the following (just examples):

1) People believe in higher price = better "sound quality".
2) They believe in "separates" are always better because they have less parts jammed in one box = less interference.
3) They thought manufacturers always use better parts/circuity in AVPs.
4) AVRs are more cost effective to produce even if, and often do, have many of the same key components/parts and circuitry because of the sheer volume they can make in large batches, and sell.
5) Marketing departments of manufacturers know the human psychology very well, so they know that sometimes you can just mark up the price a lot, and the buyers don't know what's packed inside anyway and will still go for it. Even professional reviewers, few would bother referencing service manuals and/or open up the box to examine what's inside.

It is not true that you get to pay half the price for a comparable AVP/AVC though. In your example it is half the price because you are comparing the entry level AVR to an AVP. For similar functionality/feature set you should compare the MRX-1140 to the AVM 70.

You would still be right if you consider the fact that one can typically get an last year near top model AVR at much lower, even half the price of a current year model AVP. Still not in all cases though, just in some cases. An example would be my AVR-X4400H, I paid about C$1200 at the time when the SR7012 was even at lower price C$1149 once and C$1199 twice from Bestbuy and Amazon, when the AV7704 was going for $2200 to $2400 at the time.

 

[PENG]

Also are the reviews of pre amps based on sales? Not as many people buy Anthem so there are less reviews?

I don't think so, there are many reviews of Anthem AVRs and AVPs, in fact muchmore so than other brands I would say, based on sales volume.

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

I guess I’m having trouble finding the feature differences in a MRX 540 and The AVM 70, when both are used as a pre amp. Even the MRX 1140 and AVM 70.
if I don’t use the built in AMPs in the AVR. What are the feature differences for the two as a pre amp?

 

[PENG]

Does the Denon 3700 not have the room correction? I have bad acoustics. Would Anthem ARC, Audyssey, or DIRAC help ? I’m a looking that these AVRs with these correction options for no reason ?

Bad acoustics generally apply the frequency below the room transition frequency (typically 200-300 Hz for small and medium size rooms). In the below 300 Hz range, Audyssey XT32 can do as good or better than even Dirac Live if you are willing to pay $20 for the App and use a keyboard based UI such as Ratbudyssey.

If your serious in considering Denon or Marantz, take a look of the Audyssey Editor App users thread and you will see many graphs posted by users. I think Dirac Live is good, but Anthem ARC doesn't seem to have an edge over Audyssey any more now that the Editor App is available. AARC is based on IIR type filters, Audyssey's are basde on FIR that are inherently better, and Dirac's are hybrid, claimed to offer the best of both worlds. You an Google IIR vs FIR.

Edit: Online reviews do tend to rate Dirac Live > Anthem ARC > Audyssey but I think the reasons may be because:

- Reviewers may not have used Audyssey XT32, and those who did, may not have used the Editor App, or not with a keyboard based UI for editing. The Editor App is hard to use to customize anything by using the finger or touch pen to draw. As an experienced user, I know for a fact XT32 is significantly more effective that XT. The Audyssey mic looks very cheap, so people automatically think it is not as good or even bad, not realizing that "cheap mic" is designed specifically design and calibrated for the application so it can be cheaper to make and yet still effective for the specific application.

- Anthem ARC are PC based, so while I have no experience using it, I can imagine it would be easier to use than the Editor App and draw with the finger.

- Dirac Live's UI are also easier to use so you can get good results more easily, it also costs more, so for users who do not plot their own graphs to check results will be biased to believe it works better, the same would apply to AARC as well.

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

Good info, thanks. ARC Genesis is my only real draw toward Anthem at the moment. I did audition the Anthem STR, while this is a different beast. I credited the sound to Anthem products being good. And thought the Anthem AVR could also be good and help merge the Video and Music needs, but that I may need a Power Amp to get the same sound from the STR which has much more WPC overhead, which I understood may have been part of what made it sound like it did.
But then I also feel like IV done as much treatment as I can to correct the room, and now I’m at the point where I want to try room correct software.
I have Monitor Audio Silver 300 and 2 Rhythmik f12 subs.

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

I don’t not have an Anthem STR to be clear. It is what I listen to that made me say wow. I cannot afford it. Especially since I’d still be left needing to integrate the AV portion of my setup.

 

[PENG]

I guess I’m having trouble finding the feature differences in a MRX 540 and The AVM 70, when both are used as a pre amp. Even the MRX 1140 and AVM 70.
if I don’t use the built in AMPs in the AVR. What are the feature differences for the two as a pre amp?

As I said before, you were right based on your specific needs, but for others it may not be the case if they put a lot of value on things like:

- Better DAC IC, AK4490 vs the lower grade AK4458 in the AVR lineup.
- Balance outputs, for those who need (or think they need) balanced outputs, that would be a show stopper.
- 15.1 processing, vs the MRX740's 7.1 limit, again a show stopper for people who wants to run at least 4 Atmos channels.

There are more, above is just what I can think off by memory.

 

[PENG]

did audition the Anthem STR, while this is a different beast. I credited the sound to Anthem products being good. And thought the Anthem AVR could also be good and help merge the Video and Music needs, but that I may need a Power Amp to get the same sound from the STR which has much more WPC overhead, which I understood may have been part of what made it sound like it did.

That's right, if you actually have the power requirements then the STR integrated amp or power amp will shine, though in a lot of cases if you were to do a double blind comparison listening, the "Wow" may disappear, or reduce to only subtle difference that you have to try hard to notice. Again, if the extra "juice" are actually put to work then for sure it could make some obvious difference.

You don't use the internal amps anyway, if you do then you probably should stay away from the MRX units, based on bench test results. The MRX520 always made it to the bottom rank in the 5 W/4 Ohm test:
That's the only AVR that did worse than the NAD T758V3, and of course it no longer shows in the newest chart now that more units have been measured. The preamp performance did look pretty good, and that's all that matters to you.

Review and Measurements of Anthem MRX 520 AVR | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

 

[PENG]

I have Monitor Audio Silver 300 and 2 Rhythmik f12 subs.

What are you driving them with, just curious? A strong AVR should be able to drive those depending on distance and the SPL you need, though from my experience with the Silver series, it is probably a good idea to use a real 4 Ohm rated power amp regardless.

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

I gotcha.
So sounds like for me... since I don’t what anymore than stereo and a center channel possibly... and my subs do not have XLR.
For a an extra 1700$ For the AV 70. All that I would add is a better built in DAC for that 1700$. Which isn’t not worth that.

so probably better get an AVR and add DAC separate for less.
Since I didn’t hear Anthem Room Correction is better than Audyssey. Then get a Denon 3700H for 1300$ and add the power amp to it using the Denon for a Pre amp instead of buying an expensive pre amp. Then add a DAC to it if I don’t like Denons DAC.

 

[Dreamweaverx5000]

The speakers are easy to drive and are 8 ohm. I just want better sound at the same volume which for me is maybe 75-85dB.
Do you have any other amp or receiver recommendations to make them sound good. Then what’s already suggested? I need an AVR to control things, but I am still looking to see if there is a better Amp I should add.
This whole thing was me trying to find a central AV controller while still having the benefit of a power amp for music in one controller. More or less.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Then add a DAC to it if I don’t like Denons DAC.

There is no need to waste money on the DAC either. You won't hear any difference. The DACs inside all these AVRs and AVPs are excellent.